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I am mixed on this. While I think it's important to get seen vaping so that we can spread the knowledge about gaping not idiots like Rachel Ray, it's not as simple as walking into any place and using our PVs.
Just walking into a business and vaping will backfire on us. if you want to vape ask, if youre in a big chain expect to be told no, these places are more concerned about the hundred other customers then they are about one vaper. Respect the answer you get, but be willing to answer questions too. Like it or not some people are just not going to like vaping no matter what the difference is between this and smoking. These are not just ignorant masses that need us to drop some mad knowledge on um, they are people and we should be respectful of them.
Vaping like some bunch of defiant kids will only hurt us. I will admit to stealthing here and there, but never just walking around blowing plumes of smoke in places I know it would not be allowed.
The big fight we have here is to get the rules about vaping to be based off the truth, not just a knee-jerk reaction to the "cigarette" in e-cig. Acting respectfully, and responsibly will help this cause. If you want e-cig bans to be based on the will of the owner and not law we all should remember to act like adults.
Just walking into a business and vaping will backfire on us. if you want to vape ask, if youre in a big chain expect to be told no, these places are more concerned about the hundred other customers then they are about one vaper. Respect the answer you get, but be willing to answer questions too. Like it or not some people are just not going to like vaping no matter what the difference is between this and smoking. These are not just ignorant masses that need us to drop some mad knowledge on um, they are people and we should be respectful of them.
Vaping like some bunch of defiant kids will only hurt us. I will admit to stealthing here and there, but never just walking around blowing plumes of smoke in places I know it would not be allowed.
The big fight we have here is to get the rules about vaping to be based off the truth, not just a knee-jerk reaction to the "cigarette" in e-cig. Acting respectfully, and responsibly will help this cause. If you want e-cig bans to be based on the will of the owner and not law we all should remember to act like adults.
It's exciting to see the continuing debate, and so, in that vein, I will offer a post again that I have made a couple of times.
Habeas Corpus was one of the founding principles of the United States of America. I think that, as a legal guideline, Habeas Corpus represents the strongest defense we have for Freedom, for our rights as Human Beings. However, a slanted education on the nature of democracy or the governance of a republic such as ours, here in the U.S., brainwashes more and more people into believing that only majority perspectives deserve Constitutional protection. Because the majority of U.S. citizens agree that smoking is unhealthy, it becomes acceptable to tax tobacco beyond any reasonable measure. Because a majority of people here would exchange the rights to privacy and due process for a fleeting feeling of security, the Patriot Act, and several laws since, indefinitely suspend the writ of Habeas Corpus. These are the people to whom we are appealing not to tread on our rights as vapers- the very same people who sold Liberty for Security, who believe everything they read, watch, or hear, every misinterpreted or misconstrued correlation, every unsubstantiated supposition, every caustic word cast by the media, by uninformed authority figures, by 'experts' who cannot cite their own credentials. People who cast votes for public leaders based solely on campaign speech flim-flam, disregarding history. These are the people we have to convince, who won't believe the truth if it doesn't appear on television, over the radio, or in magazines. I need to hear something better than the argument, "I can do whatever I want as long as no-one can prove that I'm harming them." You can't say flagrant, belligerent things and elicit anything other than an unfavorable response. The ONLY thing that will protect our futures vaping is to concede to another person's personal comfort. OR, you can tell me how the vaping community is going to garner favor in the court of public opinion by telling people they're wrong- like I just told you you're wrong. How did it make you feel?
Go ahead and argue with me, but unless you suck up my words because I have a right to say them, you'll only prove me right.
Habeas Corpus was one of the founding principles of the United States of America. I think that, as a legal guideline, Habeas Corpus represents the strongest defense we have for Freedom, for our rights as Human Beings. However, a slanted education on the nature of democracy or the governance of a republic such as ours, here in the U.S., brainwashes more and more people into believing that only majority perspectives deserve Constitutional protection. Because the majority of U.S. citizens agree that smoking is unhealthy, it becomes acceptable to tax tobacco beyond any reasonable measure. Because a majority of people here would exchange the rights to privacy and due process for a fleeting feeling of security, the Patriot Act, and several laws since, indefinitely suspend the writ of Habeas Corpus. These are the people to whom we are appealing not to tread on our rights as vapers- the very same people who sold Liberty for Security, who believe everything they read, watch, or hear, every misinterpreted or misconstrued correlation, every unsubstantiated supposition, every caustic word cast by the media, by uninformed authority figures, by 'experts' who cannot cite their own credentials. People who cast votes for public leaders based solely on campaign speech flim-flam, disregarding history. These are the people we have to convince, who won't believe the truth if it doesn't appear on television, over the radio, or in magazines. I need to hear something better than the argument, "I can do whatever I want as long as no-one can prove that I'm harming them." You can't say flagrant, belligerent things and elicit anything other than an unfavorable response. The ONLY thing that will protect our futures vaping is to concede to another person's personal comfort. OR, you can tell me how the vaping community is going to garner favor in the court of public opinion by telling people they're wrong- like I just told you you're wrong. How did it make you feel?
Go ahead and argue with me, but unless you suck up my words because I have a right to say them, you'll only prove me right.
Except that I do have the right to do whatever I want unless you can clearly demonstrate that it's somehow harmful to you. I just do. This right is natural and God-given, and is not dependent upon the prevailing pseudo-wisdom of mass media propaganda, nor upon the lies told by elected representatives who pretend to work for their constituents, but in reality work for the special interests who purchase their positions.
While I can certainly understand and sympathize with the desire to play the public opinion game, cow-tow to a politicized, commoditized scientific establishment and plead from a position of political subservience for "permission" to engage in activity x or y by engaging the HR rap or whatever, I am profoundly disinterested in doing so. IMHO it only lends legitimacy to an oppressive, oligarchic power structure that is not merited, and we would perhaps be better served if at least some of the educational outreach dealt with the nature of the oppressive political dynamic itself, as opposed to merely petitioning for a privileged status within it.
This is why, though I nominally joined, I would make a very poor spokesperson for CASAA. I admit that.
Liberals and their fifty cent vocabulary words, uber-compliance, and shame. I vape where I want. If management says naw, that's cool. If they have a couple minutes, I am always willing to drop knowledge on the subject. The fact is I vape at work, in Walmart, WaffleHouse, durring traffic stops, in the shower..whenever. If someone wants to ask and therefore learn, the cause is helped. The folks who are dead set against this will probably not be swayed.
It seems like I'm the only vaper wandering a desert of smokers, and uppity straight-edgers where I live. If I can be a walking, talking, educating billboard I intend to do so. Once or twice a week I turn another smoker to the websites and get them on the path. This is a fight, and fights are messy. So far the only misshap I've had was at a chick-fil-a. The manager asked if I would quit smoking, I broke down the gear and the juice into easy-to-digest tidbits for him. After he held his ground, I informed him that "if it is visibly offensive, I will most asssuredly comply". Ya that might have been a little condecending, but no more than looking down your nose and reffering to your vape-stick as a PV. All I'm saying is the attitude is all over, not just in the "vape visibility" movement.
It seems like I'm the only vaper wandering a desert of smokers, and uppity straight-edgers where I live. If I can be a walking, talking, educating billboard I intend to do so. Once or twice a week I turn another smoker to the websites and get them on the path. This is a fight, and fights are messy. So far the only misshap I've had was at a chick-fil-a. The manager asked if I would quit smoking, I broke down the gear and the juice into easy-to-digest tidbits for him. After he held his ground, I informed him that "if it is visibly offensive, I will most asssuredly comply". Ya that might have been a little condecending, but no more than looking down your nose and reffering to your vape-stick as a PV. All I'm saying is the attitude is all over, not just in the "vape visibility" movement.
Nice post, the only caveat being that labels such as liberal or conservative as presently deployed have no authentic bearing anymore on what's happening, but exist, essentially, as as tags, useful for mainstream propaganda artists as a way of keeping everyone locked into stilted, binary-track outlooks on some petty Bill O'Reilly vs Rachel Maddow level or something. But though the appeals of the religious right and the secular left frame their rhetoric somewhat differently, it's more of a good-cop, bad-cop routine (with the roles interchangeable depending on which demographic they're trying to reach) that anything else.
First, let me say I agree that we should 100% respect property owners that request we not vape on their property. That is not an issue with me.
This (what I quoted above) would be a valid argument if people's "comfort" was based on experience and fact rather than hearsay and assumption. People are uncomfortable with smoke because of personal experience with it (it annoys them) and the myths of second-hand smoke they assume to be scientific fact coming from ANTZ. Bans on e-cigarette use are being passed by people who have never even seen an e-cigarette in use first-hand and believe more lies coming from ANTZ. Without first hand experience, these people will never know what they are really banning.
It also wouldn't be so bad if the bans were limited to places like Walmart and Applebee's. However, because we slink outside with smokers and idiot legislators have no first-hand experience and vapers don't stand up for what is right, this very day a ban
There are unintended consequences for not rocking the boat. Their "right" to not have to be bothered seeing me vape should end at my front door. If we don't educate them, it is entirely possible we lose a REAL right of doing something perfectly legal in our own home as greater restrictions are placed on where people can legally smoke.
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This discussion has no room for political polarization and self-righteousness, and I certainly hope you're not labeling me a liberal. That's not appropriate. If you would like to confront someone for their statements, there's a 'reply with quote' button at the bottom of each post. This thread has largely avoided passive-aggressive nonsense, so if you would like to rebut a point, please cite the point. Read the entire thread, especially all the great posts on effective advocacy, and hopefully you'll understand why your post is out of line- I would politely ask you to debate on the merit of your argument, without resorting to hurling vague insults. Romney had good odds of winning the presidential election, but his numbers suffered because of poor advocacy- let us avoid similarly hurting our own cause.
Your final caveat being the only discernible difference in our beliefs, let me compare our perspectives. I quite agree that there is a larger battle to be fought in defense of the basic human rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but I set that aside from the need for effective vaping advocacy because we're not going to convince a majority of the country to abandon the nanny state, government-dependent mentality that is so prevalent before the FDA finalizes deeming regulations. I want to see the entire FDA fired and replaced with people who serve the public instead of BP and the federally subsidized corn growing initiative, and, hey, that may happen one day, but not before the FDA has their opportunity to pull the trigger on my PV. We need people on the street to convert smokers, to educate non-smokers, to get signatures on petitions and draw national attention to our cause. We need Effective Advocates, we need them Now, and while we need not to neglect larger battles, let's try to avoid a staggering loss that we may not come back from, yeah?
Also, your first paragraph deserves applause
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You left out the part where I said your first paragraph deserves applause (or replied while I was editing that in, lol)
AM I CLAPPING ALONE?
Only out of a dignified sense of false modesty, I assure you. LOL
I believe in Freewill and follow it at all costs. I use courtesy and moral judgments in most things I do in life. You will find that common sense isn't so common, but I try to use it just the same. I am entitled to my Freewill, and that's about all. Things are what they are.
Have a nice day no matter how u live it. My
ON.
Have a nice day no matter how u live it. My
ON.Totally agree with you!I believe in Freewill and follow it at all costs. I use courtesy and moral judgments in most things I do in life. You will find that common sense isn't so common, but I try to use it just the same. I am entitled to my Freewill, and that's about all. Things are what they are.
Have a nice day no matter how u live it. My
If you are challenged when you're vaping just tell them "IT'S A FAKE CIGARETTE....SEE", They understand that right away instead of telling them you're VAPING or I'TS WATER VAPOR. They are uninformed about ecigs so making it simple works! Try it....it works.
So many people I would like to see more elaboration from, and even more who haven't posted at all. If you're reading, what are YOUR thoughts?
Personally, while I could vape at work and no one would say anything, I just don't feel right doing it. Mainly because I am exhaling vapor with nicotine in it (albeit a small amount). But you know what, I do enjoy vaping outside with all the regular smokers because they ask questions and I have so far converted one lady to vaping!
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