Right of entitlement?

[RosaJ]

I've been hanging around this forum for a year now and this subject has been chewed, digested and regurgitated more times than I care to count. In the year I've been vaping I've only come across another vaper in his car. I vape openly while going to and fro to the stores. I've never been close enough to anyone to blow plumes of vapor on anyone yet. So this makes me wonder how often it really happens, I bet not very often.

The cases discussed are mostly hypothetical in nature, not necessarily real ones. I've come across many obnoxious people in my life completely outside the realm of vaping and have come to the conclusion that I'm not responsible, nor am I able to make them change. My responsibility only goes as far as raising my own kids to respect other people and that's as far as I go. And even then, after they turned 18, I no longer had any authority over them.

One thing I know is that I've researched this forum extensively, and have read the studies regarding second hand vapor etc., and I cringe when I read some members still doubt the safety of ecigs and refute the fact that there's no discernible second hand vape effects. If you think they're bad for you and those around you, then don't vape. It's that simple.

 

[D4rk50ul]

Why because I am sick of seeing people who have no respect for anyone at times even themselves? Or maybe you agree with the ones that do stuff like vaping at the gas pumps? or the guy extracting tobacco from a cigar with ISO? or the kid saying to make an e-cig out of a 9 volt battery and a carto?

That's a very bad way to try to win a debate, stupid people exist in all walks of life including vaping and represent the minority.

I assume most vapers are responsible with their habits and don't go out of their way to make a scene. If you think vapor is a tobacco product then I have news for you, so are all the NRTs. Truth is vaping doesn't fit into any of the current categories so rather than make a new one the FDA and ANTZ want to just force it into the existing ones.

Second hand vapor poses no threat, it's the placebo effect that is causing all the bans. Instead of getting educated people are making wild claims and fearing what is only unknown to them. I think it's wise to research before pointing fingers.

I don't vape anywhere indoors I don't ask first, including my friends houses. That is just common courtesy. Should I be banned to only use my safe device in the same place a known toxic cigarette is being used, no. The goal to demonize vapers as they have done so well to smokers is a evil one, not even smokers deserve to be looked down upon as human beings because of a habit or addiction. Passing judgement on others simply due to a vice is wrong, if people really were as "good" as they think they are they would be encouraging smokers to vape even if they do neither.

 

[NancyR]

One thing I know is that I've researched this forum extensively, and have read the studies regarding second hand vapor etc., and I cringe when I read some members still doubt the safety of ecigs and refute the fact that there's no discernible second hand vape effects. If you think they're bad for you and those around you, then don't vape. It's that simple.

Perfumes, body sprays and soaps bother a lot of people also that doesn't mean they are not generally safe to use, but it doesn't mean that if you douse yourself in perfume you are not going to be a problem for someone else.

 

[ScottP]

Buckle up Nancy I am about to tear your post apart.

I don't understand why so many vapers seem to feel they have a right to entitlement. Like buying an e-cig is a get out of jail free card. You feel you should be able to vape everywhere, infringe on others rights, and sidestep laws and policies.

Last I checked I still lived in the "Land of the Free". Not the United Soviet States of America. I am getting really sick and tired of people trying to ban or oppress anything and everything that the liberal left does not agree with. We have the freedom of speech, we do NOT have the freedom to never be offended. The two are mutually exclusive and I think you can guess which one I prefer. We have the right to freedom of religion. We do NOT have the right to never see or hear someone else practicing theirs. We have the right to own firearms. We do NOT have the right to use those fire arms on other people. Murder is already against the law, and that is not stopping the lunatics so why do ...... think they will obey any other law that is passed. We have the right to choose our own health care, retirement investments, and jobs. We even have the right to not participate in any of those things and then face the consequences later. We should NOT have the right to be lazy arses our whole lives and then take money from everyone else because we were too stupid to plan ahead. Finally we also have the right to drink sugary beverages, drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, and even vape as long as we do them in a way that does not interfere with the rights of others. Do I feel entitled to break laws? NO I do not. You don't have a right to tell me what I can do and where I can do it as long as I am not interfering with the rights of others. As others have mentioned the exhaled vapor does not contain any toxins that would interfere with anyone else's rights. Period. People don't like it because it reminds them of a real cigarette.

Why should you be able to vape where you couldn't smoke? You want e-cigs treated like the gum and patches, but guess what if they where then the rest would be a mute point and the FDA would have banned them years ago when they tried. Just because e-cigs are safer than smoking does not mean there is no risk not just to us but to others. You don't know who might be allergic to a scent, and it seems many people here in ECF just don't care.

While you are correct that we do not know the long term effects on the vaper, we DO KNOW what the exhaled vapor contains. And not only does it NOT contain any toxins in enough quantity to be considered harmful, I would bet money that it is probably 100 times safer for you than the air you breath in whatever city you live in. As far as the scents go, I have a RL friend you is deathly allergic to a specific perfume made by Mary Kay. She was in a local store recently and a woman walked by her wearing this perfume and within minutes my friend was on floor with problems breathing. So if you REALLY want government involved in telling us what smells we can exude then you better make sure they also ban colognes and perfumes too. Oh and probably Deodorants, and scented shampoos as well. Oh and good luck with that.

You don't want it regulated or taxed, all other tobacco products are regulated, and rather people like it or not we ARE using a tobacco product. At this time all nicotine containing e-juices are extracted from tobaco leaves.

Yes it is a tobacco extract. I will give you that. However why would ANYONE want more taxes? Really? You don't think you pay enough to the government? Feel free to send them extra anytime you want to. There are boxes on your tax forms to do just that but please stay the HE|| out of my pockets. As far as regulation goes, I don't see a reason to regulate it. Regulation serves TWO purposes only. The first is consumer protection. I have yet to see a reason why we need this regulated for this purpose. has anyone been harmed by unregulated e-juice yet? The ONLY other purpose regulation serves it to BAR ENTRY into a particular industry. You cannot really want less competition where ONLY Big Tobacco can even afford to compete do you?

Yes, some of the laws they have tried to pass are unfair to us, but we need to understand this isn't a case of we complain and they will stop. This WILL happen we need to be prepared.

This is a case of fight for your rights or lose them. Not just with vaping but with literally every single right in the Bill of Rights is currently under attack. If we do not do something to fight back we will not have any rights left. This does not have to happen, but it is going to take all of us working together to preserve our rights, the rights that our men and women of the armed forces have died for, during and since the American Revolution.

 

[NancyR]

Buckle up Nancy I am about to tear your post apart.



Last I checked I still lived in the "Land of the Free". Not the United Soviet States of America. I am getting really sick and tired of people trying to ban or oppress anything and everything that the liberal left does not agree with. We have the freedom of speech, we do NOT have the freedom to never be offended. The two are mutually exclusive and I think you can guess which one I prefer. We have the right to freedom of religion. We do NOT have the right to never see or hear someone else practicing theirs. We have the right to own firearms. We do NOT have the right to use those fire arms on other people. Murder is already against the law, and that is not stopping the lunatics so why do ...... think they will obey any other law that is passed. We have the right to choose our own health care, retirement investments, and jobs. We even have the right to not participate in any of those things and then face the consequences later. We should NOT have the right to be lazy arses our whole lives and then take money from everyone else because we were too stupid to plan ahead. Finally we also have the right to drink sugary beverages, drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, and even vape as long as we do them in a way that does not interfere with the rights of others. Do I feel entitled to break laws? NO I do not. You don't have a right to tell me what I can do and where I can do it as long as I am not interfering with the rights of others. As others have mentioned the exhaled vapor does not contain any toxins that would interfere with anyone else's rights. Period. People don't like it because it reminds them of a real cigarette.



While you are correct that we do not know the long term effects on the vaper, we DO KNOW what the exhaled vapor contains. And not only does it NOT contain any toxins in enough quantity to be considered harmful, I would bet money that it is probably 100 times safer for you than the air you breath in whatever city you live in. As far as the scents go, I have a RL friend you is deathly allergic to a specific perfume made by Mary Kay. She was in a local store recently and a woman walked by her wearing this perfume and within minutes my friend was on floor with problems breathing. So if you REALLY want government involved in telling us what smells we can exude then you better make sure they also ban colognes and perfumes too. Oh and probably Deodorants, and scented shampoos as well. Oh and good luck with that.



Yes it is a tobacco extract. I will give you that. However why would ANYONE want more taxes? Really? You don't think you pay enough to the government? Feel free to send them extra anytime you want to. There are boxes on your tax forms to do just that but please stay the HE|| out of my pockets. As far as regulation goes, I don't see a reason to regulate it. Regulation serves TWO purposes only. The first is consumer protection. I have yet to see a reason why we need this regulated for this purpose. has anyone been harmed by unregulated e-juice yet? The ONLY other purpose regulation serves it to BAR ENTRY into a particular industry. You cannot really want less competition where ONLY Big Tobacco can even afford to compete do you?



This is a case of fight for your rights or lose them. Not just with vaping but with literally every single right in the Bill of Rights is currently under attack. If we do not do something to fight back we will not have any rights left. This does not have to happen, but it is going to take all of us working together to preserve our rights, the rights that our men and women of the armed forces have died for, during and since the American Revolution.

If you really believe you live in the land of the free, try going out and doing anything you want any time you want and see how fast you wind up in jail, as to the rest try reading what I wrote I did NOT at any time say the vaper itself was unsafe, I said the SCENTS can cause problems. Try actually reading what is said before you try to tear it apart.

 

[RosaJ]

Perfumes, body sprays and soaps bother a lot of people also that doesn't mean they are not generally safe to use, but it doesn't mean that if you douse yourself in perfume you are not going to be a problem for someone else.

Huh!? What has this got to do with ecigs? You really don't believe the smell of the ejuice is going to send someone into fits, do you, really? Then you might as well have scented candles in stores banned because someone may be allergic to them. Lets be realistic now...!

And sorry, but I'm not giving up my scented soap!

 

[bunnomatic]

This is all nitpicking bs and has gotten boring. No matter how hard you try nobody here will convince this antz person vapor is safe along with the obnoxious scents she supposedly smells.

 

[gthompson]

Some people have to make a cause out of everything. They feel the need to stand on a soapbox and shout out to the world about everything they do.

I vape so I won't smoke, period, and I can vape all I need to to accomplish that without subjecting anyone else to my habit. I'm not going to war over it. It just isn't that important. There are way too many injustices in this world to get so worked up over this.

 

[NancyR]

This is all nitpicking bs and has gotten boring. No matter how hard you try nobody here will convince this antz person vapor is safe along with the obnoxious scents she supposedly smells.

So according to you anyone who doesn't agree with you and KNOWS of issues with this is an ANTZ?

 

[Caridwen]

Well, that didn't take long.

 

[klynnn]

I may not have all the answers but nobody else does either. How many times in history have things been banned because of ignorance. I don't vape around others because I'm lucky I don't have to put up with most peoples BS. Today it's ban it I don't like it. They have damn near run this country into the ground WAKE up people.

 

[bunnomatic]

So according to you anyone who doesn't agree with you and KNOWS of issues with this is an ANTZ?

too bad there isn't an ignore button in this forum. I'll do it the hard way and just ignore any further pontifications from you.

 

[NancyR]

too bad there isn't an ignore button in this forum. I'll do it the hard way and just ignore any further pontifications from you.

there is and please be my guest to put me on your ignore, I wasn't the one doing the name calling

 

[AngelsBreath]

When I smoked, I felt like a criminal, I had been looked down upon by so many. It had gotten to the point where I was hiding behind bushes and buildings to smoke. They made me feel like a criminal, like I was nothing, that I had no rights and didn't deserve their respect. People always looking down on me and those obnoxious pretend coughs and the wagging their hands in front of their face. They were the rude ones, I was never rude with my smoking and I am not rude with my vaping. My husband and children are and always have been non-smokers. They are so pleased about my vaping, they couldn't be happier and they claim that they only catch a faint whiff of it from time to time and that it's actually pleasant.

I for one am tired of being demonized and demoralized. I gave up the smoking more for others than for myself, because I felt so awful about the way people would look at me. Do you think that they even noticed that I don't smoke anymore? Do you think that they care? They will just find someone else to demonize.

Please, stop trying to make me feel like a criminal, that is NOT what ECF is all about in my humble opinion. I'm a person and I have feelings and I'm a good person at that!! I came here to ECF for support, to find others out there who were like me, to have a 'family' of sorts, others who were feeling criminalized and demonized. We came together here to share our experiences and what we have been and are going thru.

LEAVE US ALONE!!!

 

[Swampey65]

I don't understand why so many vapers seem to feel they have a right to entitlement. Like buying an e-cig is a get out of jail free card. You feel you should be able to vape everywhere, infringe on others rights, and sidestep laws and policies.


Why should you be able to vape where you couldn't smoke? You want e-cigs treated like the gum and patches, but guess what if they where then the rest would be a mute point and the FDA would have banned them years ago when they tried. Just because e-cigs are safer than smoking does not mean there is no risk not just to us but to others. You don't know who might be allergic to a scent, and it seems many people here in ECF just don't care.

Allergic to a scent? Then you best not leave the house if that's the case. In fact, if an FDA approved FOOD GRADE flavoring's mere scent sends someone into a psychosomatic convulsion then they have a LOT more going on than mere .... retentiveness and most likely they need to join the boy in the bubble.

You don't want it regulated or taxed, all other tobacco products are regulated, and rather people like it or not we ARE using a tobacco product. At this time all nicotine containing e-juices are extracted from tobaco leaves.

Yes, your right nicotine is derived from tobacco...and it (E-Cigs)is the only product I've ever seen or used that actually got me and a metric {EDIT} ton of other folks away from cigarettes PERMANENTLY so, I will continue to fight this corrupt, Fascist Government and do what I can to keep it from getting it's grubbies on vaping anymore than it already has. While we all can agree that there are places you should think twice about openly vaping; the same goes for farting as well. For the most part though, I do my BEST to act in a way with vaping that doesn't associate me as a smoker - therefore I will not huddle in the corner vaping like I am an ashamed smoker. Instead, I will act like it's the next best thing to the invention of sliced bread...because for many of us ex-smokers....it damn well is!

I will continue to vape where I have judged the environment permits/is cool with it. I will vape with courtesy and consideration but, I won't hide it. I have NEVER once had anyone complain about my vaping in public places/spaces. If anything, they are intrigued and ask about it and once I give them the gist of it, almost 100% of them say " I have a (insert loved one/Friends name here) that should look into that!"

If I wasn't openly vaping, these positive responses wouldn't happen. They're perceptions of it wouldn't change! Most folks don't know the contents of e-juice. I explain it to them. I mention that PG is something they have inhaled in some form or another all their lives and that it's been used as a virucide/germicide since the early 1900's in Hospitals and still is to this day! Many Hospitals release it through the duct systems in fact! I ask them if they've ever been in a club or at a concert where a fog machine was used? Of course, almost everyone says yes. I also mention that while yes; nicotine is addictive, it is not a carcinogenic, (a cancer causing agent) it is a stimulant like caffeine and the PG/VG is roughly 1300% better than smoking and definitely 100% less dangerous to them than the exhaust from cars that they breathe every day as they venture outside! I direct them to CASAA, where there is more facts than I can give them in passing conversation. Whether they ever go check the site out or not, I am presenting vaping in a positive light and with a confident, friendly tone. Now, would I vape in an elevator? Of course not! I wouldn't fart in one either...it's common sense and common courtesy. But when I think I can vape in a restaurant, bar or other public space without catching grief, you can bet your sweet bippy I will and absolutely do!

Yes, some of the laws they have tried to pass are unfair to us, but we need to understand this isn't a case of we complain and they will stop. This WILL happen we need to be prepared.

To me, it sounds like your strategy is one of fear. The fear that "It's gonna happen anyways - so, let's not rock the boat too much or they may crush down on us that much harder" Yeah, go ahead and stick with that.

I'll stick with doing what I'm doing...being a courteous PUBLIC vaper and engaging folks I come across and helping them change their misguided perceptions. Hell, many times I am CREATING their perception for them through a little "curbside/tableside education" if you will. I get them on our side. I and many other's work at making it harder for the Anti's to spread their LIES to them.

But again, you keep worrying about not rocking the boat/offending the minority control freaks and helping their voice to be louder than our voice. I and many other's will continue to help educating the MAJORITY and getting them on our side; thereby making our voice STRONGER...

In my opinion THIS IS HOW IT'S DONE. I get the feeling from the tone of your post you that you are ashamed of vaping. Well sorry but, I ain't going down that road again...I was ashamed and disgusted with myself at the end with Tobacco cigarettes. I refuse to be that way with vaping and, it only hurts us as a community. F-that.

Of course, everyone's mileage will vary regarding the post I have made here...whatever, dance to your own tune. "Entitlement"? Well I don't know that it's about an entitlement mentality in as much as it's about being sick and tired of an overbearing, over-controlling Government that in the end always attempts to try to meter out you're freedoms based on the taxes they can amass from the scare tactics and threats they assess on it.

I will not huddle in the corner and be made to feel or act like I'm doing something wrong by vaping when I'm out & about. I am a Citizen, I am not a subject of the Government and that's the way I will continue to carry myself as I work to educate the majority in my everyday life as the opportunity arises...

 

[NancyR]

When I smoked, I felt like a criminal, I had been looked down upon by so many. It had gotten to the point where I was hiding behind bushes and buildings to smoke. They made me feel like a criminal, like I was nothing, that I had no rights and didn't deserve their respect. People always looking down on me and those obnoxious pretend coughs and the wagging their hands in front of their face. They were the rude ones, I was never rude with my smoking and I am not rude with my vaping. My husband and children are and always have been non-smokers. They are so pleased about my vaping, they couldn't be happier and they claim that they only catch a faint wiff of it from time to time and that it's actually pleasant.

I for one am tired of being demonized and demoralized. I gave up the smoking more for others than for myself, because I felt so awful about the way people would look at me. Do you think that they even noticed that I don't smoke anymore? Do you think that they care? They will just find someone else to demonize.

Please, stop trying to make me feel like a criminal, that is NOT what ECF is all about in my humble opinion. I'm a person and I have feelings and I'm a good person at that!! I came here to ECF for support, to find others out there who were like me, to have a 'family' of sorts, others who were feeling criminalized and demonized. We came together here to share our experiences and what we have been and are going thru.

LEAVE US ALONE!!!

If you read my posts, I have said many times through this the problem is those without any common courtesy, you haven't been in ECF long enough to see a lot of the posts I am talking about, and I hope you don't. But many of the others know exactly what ones I mean.

 

[Caridwen]

When I smoked, I felt like a criminal, I had been looked down upon by so many. It had gotten to the point where I was hiding behind bushes and buildings to smoke. They made me feel like a criminal, like I was nothing, that I had no rights and didn't deserve their respect. People always looking down on me and those obnoxious pretend coughs and the wagging their hands in front of their face. They were the rude ones, I was never rude with my smoking and I am not rude with my vaping. My husband and children are and always have been non-smokers. They are so pleased about my vaping, they couldn't be happier and they claim that they only catch a faint whiff of it from time to time and that it's actually pleasant.

I for one am tired of being demonized and demoralized. I gave up the smoking more for others than for myself, because I felt so awful about the way people would look at me. Do you think that they even noticed that I don't smoke anymore? Do you think that they care? They will just find someone else to demonize.

Please, stop trying to make me feel like a criminal, that is NOT what ECF is all about in my humble opinion. I'm a person and I have feelings and I'm a good person at that!! I came here to ECF for support, to find others out there who were like me, to have a 'family' of sorts, others who were feeling criminalized and demonized. We came together here to share our experiences and what we have been and are going thru.

LEAVE US ALONE!!!

You should be proud of yourself. We all should. It really is an accomplishment.

 

[Red_Bird]

I don't understand why so many vapers seem to feel they have a right to entitlement. Like buying an e-cig is a get out of jail free card. You feel you should be able to vape everywhere, infringe on others rights, and sidestep laws and policies.


Why should you be able to vape where you couldn't smoke? You want e-cigs treated like the gum and patches, but guess what if they where then the rest would be a mute point and the FDA would have banned them years ago when they tried. Just because e-cigs are safer than smoking does not mean there is no risk not just to us but to others. You don't know who might be allergic to a scent, and it seems many people here in ECF just don't care.


You don't want it regulated or taxed, all other tobacco products are regulated, and rather people like it or not we ARE using a tobacco product. At this time all nicotine containing e-juices are extracted from tobaco leaves.


Yes, some of the laws they have tried to pass are unfair to us, but we need to understand this isn't a case of we complain and they will stop. This WILL happen we need to be prepared.

What hurts us ex cigarette smokers AND the ecig industry is when people who NEVER smoked or had a nicotine habit think vaping is "cool" and want to start vaping.

This is giving BP and the FDA ammunition to use against us and impose strict regulation(s).

If vapers ASK permission to vape in public I see nothing wrong with that, myself.

Its the kids wanting to "be cool" and vape, when they never smoked or had a habit......That will hurt the industry.

 

[ScottP]

....I did NOT at any time say the vaper itself was unsafe, I said the SCENTS can cause problems. Try actually reading what is said before you try to tear it apart.

From your OP:

Just because e-cigs are safer than smoking does not mean there is no risk not just to us but to others.

If you are only worried about the scents then go get Mary Kay perfume banned instead.

 

[GreekLion]

vaping has as much as an effect on the user and those around them as much as blowing bubbles. if the government decides to regulate bubble blowing, we have bigger problems.

the problem here isnt that people feel entitled to do whatever they want in regards to vaping. the larger issue is that when compared to smoking, it is a million times better in almost every way, specifically safer. the problem isnt the law or regulation, its that the legal system needs to match the act, and the products are being treated unfairly compared to cigarettes.

smoking is a huge tax revenue source, but an even larger cause of medical costs. the politics surrounding it are endless. vaping does not bring in taxes, and watching the deficit they dont care about spending so you wont see too much support in favor of vaping.

entitled? no. unfair? yes.