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To boldly vape where no vaper has gone before....
It's true, and honestly had I any ability to quit using other methods, I might do so. That being said, I do feel healthier, and my docs are certainly not going to let me fall through the cracks, as it were, until my lung function improves a *lot*. We have anecdotal reporting for the last 8--10 years (ish?) and that's about it, apart from limited studies being done. I think continued harm reduction with vape is just as important as doing so with cigarettes, I have a feeling a lot of that data won't come out until around the same time frame as cigarettes did, and that was a LONG time.
Oh well, there are times I used to say I wished I lived in the time of Anais Nin, she had TB and her docs encouraged her to *smoke more* to fortify her lungs (eh, she had lots of other issues.) That being said, e-cigs are going to be tougher in some ways to study, as there are so many delivery devices and flavors and variables. I guess, if it's death by vape for me, I'll go down saying "I quit smoking," but if there's vape related COPD in my future, I will be annoyed, though I can't IMAGINE it would be more hasty than continuing a 2--3 PPD habit, based on anecdotal reports of former smokers. I think it might be fair enough to say I'm buying time.... Based on anecdotal data. That's about all I can realistically hope for at this point, though I hope studies ARE done to make vaping as safe as it can be.
Anna
It's true, and honestly had I any ability to quit using other methods, I might do so. That being said, I do feel healthier, and my docs are certainly not going to let me fall through the cracks, as it were, until my lung function improves a *lot*. We have anecdotal reporting for the last 8--10 years (ish?) and that's about it, apart from limited studies being done. I think continued harm reduction with vape is just as important as doing so with cigarettes, I have a feeling a lot of that data won't come out until around the same time frame as cigarettes did, and that was a LONG time.
Oh well, there are times I used to say I wished I lived in the time of Anais Nin, she had TB and her docs encouraged her to *smoke more* to fortify her lungs (eh, she had lots of other issues.) That being said, e-cigs are going to be tougher in some ways to study, as there are so many delivery devices and flavors and variables. I guess, if it's death by vape for me, I'll go down saying "I quit smoking," but if there's vape related COPD in my future, I will be annoyed, though I can't IMAGINE it would be more hasty than continuing a 2--3 PPD habit, based on anecdotal reports of former smokers. I think it might be fair enough to say I'm buying time.... Based on anecdotal data. That's about all I can realistically hope for at this point, though I hope studies ARE done to make vaping as safe as it can be.
Anna
That's the thing, we'll likely never really know. Vaping was a last ditch life ring for me, and after very nearly four years, I feel loads better, but much damage was done in the thirty plus years of heavy smoking. Feeling better is great, but I don't think it's possible for me to ever feel like a never smoker. I have some minor wheezing...sometimes I still have a little cough, it is what it is. I think some of it may be related to the vape, or maybe there is just some lasting damage in my lungs.
I voluntarily chose to be my own guiny pig in this vaping experiment, and so far so good. Quitting smoking for me was a pure accident, I didn't try vaping thinking it would work, but three days after starting, I haven't smoked again...
<me too> BRAVO, ENAUD <me too> <me too>
Ten full days for me, but then again, I thought it was a gimmicky toy, and could not pastably work to end a lifelong cigarette habit.
KD, wrong~
EHEM
Mike
I don't dwell there.
I just feed there, thank you.
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Mulberry or Arthur (which borough)? [emoji6]Little Italy, obviously.
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By what means was that quit attempt successful?
For me, I've tried other methods with little to no success.
So my health improvement:
1) Can be directly attributed to the cause of success of my quitting
2) Proves that the substances I'm inhaling now allowed my health to improve where inhaling smoke was a direct cause of my health deterioration
Let's not dilute that purposely.
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No
That too would be incomplete data.
And data that would be completely useless in the scope of harm reduction.
Other than to show a control group to say it is or isn't completely harmless...
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Ah, but I didn't mean harm reduction, I was talking about possible harm from vaping, different animal than harm reduction. Re-read what I wrote...it is very clearly stated.
I think a lot of the science being done today is the same as it has always been. We create ways and or a machine to detect, observe, calculate, etc.
As the generations in science continue to grow and expand with the creation of newer instruments, methods, and theories that was used in 1950 is now obsolete and some disproved. Eventually there will probably be one instrument and or method that will be capable of analyzing everything we need to know.
At one point we created an instrument to detect the absence of heat, at the time it was 451 degrees below zero was considered absence of heat. But, 10 years from now is it possible to make a more advanced instrument that will disprove the previous.
Short story longer, we are more likely to die from being hit by a drunk driver than from what we injest or inhale.
I didn't mean to put ripples in the pond. Just had it on my mind and thought i would inject into the conversation.
Please continue. [emoji106]
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As the generations in science continue to grow and expand with the creation of newer instruments, methods, and theories that was used in 1950 is now obsolete and some disproved. Eventually there will probably be one instrument and or method that will be capable of analyzing everything we need to know.
At one point we created an instrument to detect the absence of heat, at the time it was 451 degrees below zero was considered absence of heat. But, 10 years from now is it possible to make a more advanced instrument that will disprove the previous.
Short story longer, we are more likely to die from being hit by a drunk driver than from what we injest or inhale.
I didn't mean to put ripples in the pond. Just had it on my mind and thought i would inject into the conversation.
Please continue. [emoji106]
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Unfortunately there are those, like me, that had never had lung function tests done. No real medical data other than how many times I went to a doctor for bronchitis: Once a year for the last five years I smoked.
I can collect data now but really doesn't do much. As far as the FDA is concerned, I'm only seen as anecdotal evidence.
I get it, we could be lying. Doesn't make it hurt less to know that my experiences can be suspect. That I'm anecdotal.
My experiences are my own. I KNOW how vaping has helped me. I Know what my blood oxygen levels are now. I know what my lung function is and I Know I can exercise for FAR longer before my legs give out...not my lungs.
Anecdotal
I can collect data now but really doesn't do much. As far as the FDA is concerned, I'm only seen as anecdotal evidence.
I get it, we could be lying. Doesn't make it hurt less to know that my experiences can be suspect. That I'm anecdotal.
My experiences are my own. I KNOW how vaping has helped me. I Know what my blood oxygen levels are now. I know what my lung function is and I Know I can exercise for FAR longer before my legs give out...not my lungs.
Anecdotal
Nothing wrong with anecdotal. Lots of examples of things seen anecdotally only to be confirmed or refuted way down the road when the science is there to understand it. Look at leeches. Way back when, leeches were commonly use for all sorts of medical complaints. Then they fell out of favor as more established treatments that actually worked became available. And lets face it, leeches are sorta disgusting. But there were what we would consider anecdotal reports where they were of use in particular situations.
Now we know by being able to properly test that there are all sorts of good blood thinners in their saliva. Leeches are once again in medical use, mainly for stuff like finger reattachment or reconstruction, areas where the blood flow is through very small vessels and you want to keep things moving locally. Still disgusting but at least you get to keep your reattached finger, which is a good trade off, at least in my book.
Many drugs, especially those derived from things in nature, were all found through anecdotal reports to have some benefit. Eventually we were able to test for the active chemical, and could then chemically extract/purify/reproduce so a consistent dose could be administered. Most things in medicine were found through anecdotal reports and observations. It's got to start somewhere.
Now we know by being able to properly test that there are all sorts of good blood thinners in their saliva. Leeches are once again in medical use, mainly for stuff like finger reattachment or reconstruction, areas where the blood flow is through very small vessels and you want to keep things moving locally. Still disgusting but at least you get to keep your reattached finger, which is a good trade off, at least in my book.
Many drugs, especially those derived from things in nature, were all found through anecdotal reports to have some benefit. Eventually we were able to test for the active chemical, and could then chemically extract/purify/reproduce so a consistent dose could be administered. Most things in medicine were found through anecdotal reports and observations. It's got to start somewhere.
"Sorta"???
@stols001 - the truth is that while there is much anecdotal evidence, there are also a lot of scientific studies that support what common sense already tells us. That being, removing smoke will have a tremendously positive effect. I won't list them all here because it would go on for hours, but I have little doubt that you'll be finding them yourself as you proceed through curiosity.
As I had implied earlier, the FDA doesn't care about any of the science unless it supports their position that vaping is bad. If you haven't yet, I'd highly recommend spending the $13 and less-than-90-minutes to catch A Billion Lives (Amazon VOD, iTunes, Google Play, etc.. ). It doesn't solve anything, but it's an insightful peek inside history, and I found it to be quite valuable.
Ultimately I have faith that common sense will win out in this war of ours, even if we lose some battles along the way, not totally dissimilar from what resulted in events 241 years ago around these parts (country not forum
). Happy Birthday, USA.
241 years ago, ECF was sooo laid back. It was before sub ohming became a thing...
"Sorta"???
@stols001 - the truth is that while there is much anecdotal evidence, there are also a lot of scientific studies that support what common sense already tells us. That being, removing smoke will have a tremendously positive effect. I won't list them all here because it would go on for hours, but I have little doubt that you'll be finding them yourself as you proceed through curiosity.
As I had implied earlier, the FDA doesn't care about any of the science unless it supports their position that vaping is bad. If you haven't yet, I'd highly recommend spending the $13 and less-than-90-minutes to catch A Billion Lives (Amazon VOD, iTunes, Google Play, etc.. ). It doesn't solve anything, but it's an insightful peek inside history, and I found it to be quite valuable.
Ultimately I have faith that common sense will win out in this war of ours, even if we lose some battles along the way, not totally dissimilar from what resulted in events 241 years ago around these parts (country not forum
Happy Birthday, USA.
We used Mammoth fur for wicks.
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