- Status
Sigh. I predicted this a few days ago on some other thread. I just knew the juul was gonna face attack, because of its sales, really. And yes, by the time the legislation (or enforcement) if it happens for this "juul" product, most teens will be long over it and the majority have not even tried it at all.
It's just Congress telling the FDA to hurry up and roll out their plan. They are sick of losing taxes, and they expect the FDA to do it.
And ALL my "favorite" senators were on the list, the ones I'd take out, line up somewhere and well, I guess I won't discuss anything violent. I would like to gag them, then give them a stern talking to, in an atmosphere NOT filled with no one paying attention, no one being present, and senators being RUDE enough to completely ignore what is going on. Sometimes I wonder how they manage to accomplish very much other than banging interns. So yes, a stern talking to is needed .
I am so glad I got my last two liters of nic, they are showing up today.
Anna
It's just Congress telling the FDA to hurry up and roll out their plan. They are sick of losing taxes, and they expect the FDA to do it.
And ALL my "favorite" senators were on the list, the ones I'd take out, line up somewhere and well, I guess I won't discuss anything violent. I would like to gag them, then give them a stern talking to, in an atmosphere NOT filled with no one paying attention, no one being present, and senators being RUDE enough to completely ignore what is going on. Sometimes I wonder how they manage to accomplish very much other than banging interns. So yes, a stern talking to is needed .
I am so glad I got my last two liters of nic, they are showing up today.
Anna
Juuling IS a problem with teens. My son is 14 and many of his friends are doing it and he has tried it a few times and told me. I don't want any teens becoming addicted to nicotine. With that said, this is MUCH better than smoking and some of the other risk-taking activities they engage in. The number one killer of teens is automobile accidents...are they going to ban cars? How many Juul deaths or vaping deaths of teens are documented? I'm sure less than Tide pods. They need to make buying nicotine products (combustible and non, offline and online) require proof of age/identity at point of sale. Flavor bans will do nothing. I'm curious to see what actions Pax Labs takes to address this - it will certainly be more rational than DC or the FDA. We'll soon know if the FDA under Gottlieb will show better judgement than the insane politicians in DC.
I saw a TV segment about it recently. The kids were talking about how cool they were, they look like thumb drives so the dumb teachers don't understand what they are. And you can use them in bathrooms and even in class if you know how.
What I got from that was Juuls are just a great way to thumb your nose at authority. If you could magically make vapes disappear from the world they would find some other way to thumb their noses at authority. That's what being a teenager is about, same as it has always been.
Schools, media and government promote every perversion, immoral act and self gratification there is it seems but the dreaded juul is bringing them to their knees.
Nicotine that is not highly taxed is the devil yet 12 year olds chugging red bulls and triple shot mochas on the way to school is a good thing...
How about we tell the politicians to f off and worry about their own kids and leave everyone else's alone.
Nicotine that is not highly taxed is the devil yet 12 year olds chugging red bulls and triple shot mochas on the way to school is a good thing...
How about we tell the politicians to f off and worry about their own kids and leave everyone else's alone.
It's not in their nature to leave anyone alone. If it was, they wouldn't have run for office to begin with.
The older I get, the more I realize that government by career politicians has NO pleasant, useful, or even tolerable endgame.
Politics in a democracy should never be a career...
The ancient Athenians knew how to deal with fools like these. Every so often they'd have a vote to see which politician would be exiled... genius way to keep the politicians honest if you ask me.
Politics in a democracy should never be a career...
The ancient Athenians knew how to deal with fools like these. Every so often they'd have a vote to see which politician would be exiled... genius way to keep the politicians honest if you ask me.
Um, exiled? LOL, can we vote more than once?
Yes, qualification number one to be a politician, man, is the desire to NOT be one. I always thought my pastor would make a great politician but I never wrote him in anywhere, I didn't want do it that way.
I say rule by lottery. NOONE"S excluded either, not ex felons, not anyone. The mix we would get by randomness has got to be so much better than career politics..
I mean.... I don't get it, either. Once you've skimmed enough pork, easy enough to retire. It must be that absolute power thing, it's probably addictive.
Anna
Yes, qualification number one to be a politician, man, is the desire to NOT be one. I always thought my pastor would make a great politician but I never wrote him in anywhere, I didn't want do it that way.
I say rule by lottery. NOONE"S excluded either, not ex felons, not anyone. The mix we would get by randomness has got to be so much better than career politics..
I mean.... I don't get it, either. Once you've skimmed enough pork, easy enough to retire. It must be that absolute power thing, it's probably addictive.
Anna
FDA sends JUUL letter.
https://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/RulesRegulationsGuidance/UCM605490.pdf
Under Section 904(b) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act), FDA is requesting that JUUL Labs, Inc. (JUUL) submit documents relating to marketing practices and research on marketing, effects of product design, public health impact, and adverse experiences and complaints related to JUUL products. This request applies to research relating to all such tobacco products and their components or parts, including those products for research, investigational use, developmental studies, test marketing, and/or commercial marketing. FDA is requesting these documents based on growing concern about the popularity of JUUL products among youth. JUUL product use appears to be common in middle and high schools based on widespread media reporting describing a rapid growth of use among youth in general and on school property,1, numerous complaints that have been received by CTP, small research studies that have
Other Statements today
Statement from FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, M.D., on new enforcement actions and a Youth Tobacco Prevention Plan to stop youth use of, and access to, JUUL and other e-cigarettes
https://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/RulesRegulationsGuidance/UCM605490.pdf
Under Section 904(b) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act), FDA is requesting that JUUL Labs, Inc. (JUUL) submit documents relating to marketing practices and research on marketing, effects of product design, public health impact, and adverse experiences and complaints related to JUUL products. This request applies to research relating to all such tobacco products and their components or parts, including those products for research, investigational use, developmental studies, test marketing, and/or commercial marketing. FDA is requesting these documents based on growing concern about the popularity of JUUL products among youth. JUUL product use appears to be common in middle and high schools based on widespread media reporting describing a rapid growth of use among youth in general and on school property,1, numerous complaints that have been received by CTP, small research studies that have
Other Statements today
Statement from FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, M.D., on new enforcement actions and a Youth Tobacco Prevention Plan to stop youth use of, and access to, JUUL and other e-cigarettes
Just a suggestion
First vaping underage offense = $500
Second offense = 2 weeks in Dept Youth Services (kiddie prison) - non negotiable
Their parents won't let there be a third offense
"Problem" solved
First vaping underage offense = $500
Second offense = 2 weeks in Dept Youth Services (kiddie prison) - non negotiable
Their parents won't let there be a third offense
"Problem" solved
"based on widespread media reporting..." This is the FDA definition of science. TRUMP!!! DRAIN THE GD SWAMP. You promised.
I started smoking in junior high school... They were tobacco cigarettes... Supposedly, not to be sold to minors, even back then... I got them anyway... Smoking kills, yet they get their panties in a bunch over a healthier, cancer-free option... I can't imagine how they even managed to get their government positions, if they are really THAT stupid. 
I actually have SUCH mixed feelings about locking youth up unless the offense is SEVERE. I mean, I've worked and interacted with agencies like JV an CPS, and there are many times more harm than good is done. An impressionable teen trying a Juul shouldn't go to Juvenile detention for two weeks, sometimes what happens is you get your kid returned to you more hardened and anti social than most ALL teens sometimes are.
I'd be more in favor of treatment, education, and requiring (often fairly absent or also anti social parents, though not all of them) family therapy, developing a plan to deal with it and etc.
Incarceration should be reserved for more serious things. I'm not saying breaking the law is never serious, but if the money spent on incarceration PERIOD were instead directed toward helping families and kids in a non punitive way (really awful crimes obviously exempt) and etc.?
Every country that has approached harm reduction (with any drug, not just nicotine) and done it well has seen SPECTACULAR results, for the most part.
IDK why this country is so punitive, I mean the CONVICTS are in Australia, having a great time, and the puritans and other religious nutballs came here....
It kind of makes me hate religion sometimes. We can do better than to "punish."
If I had been locked up as a teen for smoking, I'm quite sure it would have turned out worse than the alternative, although I didn't really seriously take up smoking until I was 18. But there is no way in hell I want to send a teen to "Juvie" over a damn "Juul". This is going to ridiculous lengths, and I have no desire to bite, or even solve the situation.
I mean: look at our government and country do we have slightly bigger problems than Juuling? Why yes, yes we do and etc.
Anna
I'd be more in favor of treatment, education, and requiring (often fairly absent or also anti social parents, though not all of them) family therapy, developing a plan to deal with it and etc.
Incarceration should be reserved for more serious things. I'm not saying breaking the law is never serious, but if the money spent on incarceration PERIOD were instead directed toward helping families and kids in a non punitive way (really awful crimes obviously exempt) and etc.?
Every country that has approached harm reduction (with any drug, not just nicotine) and done it well has seen SPECTACULAR results, for the most part.
IDK why this country is so punitive, I mean the CONVICTS are in Australia, having a great time, and the puritans and other religious nutballs came here....
It kind of makes me hate religion sometimes. We can do better than to "punish."
If I had been locked up as a teen for smoking, I'm quite sure it would have turned out worse than the alternative, although I didn't really seriously take up smoking until I was 18. But there is no way in hell I want to send a teen to "Juvie" over a damn "Juul". This is going to ridiculous lengths, and I have no desire to bite, or even solve the situation.
I mean: look at our government and country do we have slightly bigger problems than Juuling? Why yes, yes we do and etc.
Anna
Going after the consumer is the lazy option "look we're doing something". The decades of battle against illegal drugs has proven that approach to be ineffective anyways. Like Anna suggested locking up minors won't make the world a better place.
Punish the juuling teen but let the people who sold to them or bought it for them continue without consequence?
How would that even be a realistic option to change anything?
On top of that we should really be the last people on earth to call for criminalizing vaping in any way, that would have the potential to backfire quite heavily.
Sure, let them continue to disobey and we, the law abiding adults, suffer.
We're not the problem. The kids using them are.
Shops don't sell to kids. They steal them or get an older person to buy for them.
Save the kids is bull..... Teach them to be responsible for their actions.
We're not the problem. The kids using them are.
Shops don't sell to kids. They steal them or get an older person to buy for them.
Save the kids is bull..... Teach them to be responsible for their actions.
The only reason to criminalize teen behavior rather than treat it, is extreme violence, because at that point, it may be too late.
If we criminalize teens for vaping, (it's already possible to do, here) but if our society decides that is the way, I will cry.
You know, everything was so much less "safety" oriented when I grew up. I'm fairly certain the parents expected a certain amount of acting out, but my high school class garnered the reputation of the "best 'good kids' while being simultaneously AWFUL, and I do mean AWFUL, we were really a problem. My (private arts school) even hired a pedophile (I don't even think they did a background check) and so that was... interesting. I wound up being the one teenager who was read to go inform the school I "slept" with my English teacher (I was almost 18, but he was stalking, and I do mean stalking, my little sis, who was 13 and she was freaking out. Since she didn't want to tell my parents what was going on, I just told her I'd get him fired (I'm the family black sheep anyway) and then proceeded to do so, and sure, it sucked. And sure, if the school had been WILLING to call the cops, I totally would've testified (I told them so) but they just went for a firing. Meh. He got locked up later down the line.
My point is, though, teens do dumb stuff ALL the time, including sleeping with their pedophile English teacher who provided alcohol, and yet, some how, we all survived and became functional adults, even with all this crazy "Harm." NO one in our class (okay, maybe 3 people) did not experiment with illegal substances and whatnot and NO one is dead (yet) and we all turned into pretty cool adults, way cooler than we were as teens.
It takes SO MUCH harm for teens before something dreadful happens, and there is a point at which I just say, you know, life has knocks and sometimes the best "knocks" happen totally inadvertently, but I learned a ton from turning in my pedophile English teacher and I actually do NOT regret it happening (it turned me into a better person) even though, at the time, it sucked.
You can not stop a teenager from experimenting with WHATEVER. It's really best not to criminalize stuff at least on the teen, IMO. Etc. Etc.
Anna
If we criminalize teens for vaping, (it's already possible to do, here) but if our society decides that is the way, I will cry.
You know, everything was so much less "safety" oriented when I grew up. I'm fairly certain the parents expected a certain amount of acting out, but my high school class garnered the reputation of the "best 'good kids' while being simultaneously AWFUL, and I do mean AWFUL, we were really a problem. My (private arts school) even hired a pedophile (I don't even think they did a background check) and so that was... interesting. I wound up being the one teenager who was read to go inform the school I "slept" with my English teacher (I was almost 18, but he was stalking, and I do mean stalking, my little sis, who was 13 and she was freaking out. Since she didn't want to tell my parents what was going on, I just told her I'd get him fired (I'm the family black sheep anyway) and then proceeded to do so, and sure, it sucked. And sure, if the school had been WILLING to call the cops, I totally would've testified (I told them so) but they just went for a firing. Meh. He got locked up later down the line.
My point is, though, teens do dumb stuff ALL the time, including sleeping with their pedophile English teacher who provided alcohol, and yet, some how, we all survived and became functional adults, even with all this crazy "Harm." NO one in our class (okay, maybe 3 people) did not experiment with illegal substances and whatnot and NO one is dead (yet) and we all turned into pretty cool adults, way cooler than we were as teens.
It takes SO MUCH harm for teens before something dreadful happens, and there is a point at which I just say, you know, life has knocks and sometimes the best "knocks" happen totally inadvertently, but I learned a ton from turning in my pedophile English teacher and I actually do NOT regret it happening (it turned me into a better person) even though, at the time, it sucked.
You can not stop a teenager from experimenting with WHATEVER. It's really best not to criminalize stuff at least on the teen, IMO. Etc. Etc.
Anna
The average ADULT commits at least one felony a day. Granted, it includes some "blue laws" and whatnot, but in my state, going over 20 miles over the speed limit is a felony. I have done that, on occasion (in areas it is safe to do it).
Really super easy to blame teens for everything vaping related, EXCEPT in a study, the average American commits ONE felony a day. I actually rather like to hope that some nice Church group is reserving their felonies for ME.
Every stealth vape in a private establishment or in a state or federal building, or on hospital .premises, and on and on and on.
The only way for a person to LEGITIMATELY blame teenagers for breaking the law, is by having absolutely saintly behavior at all times yourself. I'm fairly certain that is NOT the case.
I'm also fairly certain that many "punish the kids for vaping" folk yelling the loudest stole their parents cigarettes.
Grow up. Seriously. Grow up, and realize that in America, the only reason issues get "advertised" like this is because the government needs a RATIONAL to suck at vaping. If it hadn't been kids, perhaps stealth vaping by adults would have become the issue.
If I'm going to point fingers at a teen, I have 4 others pointing directly at myself. I'm not saying I'm a hardened felon, either, I'm a relatively upstanding member of society. That may NOT have been the case if I'd been criminalized as a youth, I can pretty much guarantee THAT. Stamping OUT my antisocial behaviors took effort and HELP on my part, and if I'd just been locked up, I'm pretty sure the eventual outcome would have been poor.
Locking teens up (even suggesting it) is the lowest of the low behavior for VAPERS.
And, by the way, teens or now, they are coming for your vape. The government is arriving, and changes will come, so I hope you are stocking up, not just complaining how teens "ruin it for the rest of us." THAT is BITING exactly where Trump and all his minions WANT you to bite. You participate in your own destruction.
Vaping was doomed since the moment it started working. Some folks had a longer time to vape unimpeded, and I understand the dismay, but make NO mistake, it is NOT the teens fault. This is ALL manufactured.
Anna
Really super easy to blame teens for everything vaping related, EXCEPT in a study, the average American commits ONE felony a day. I actually rather like to hope that some nice Church group is reserving their felonies for ME.
Every stealth vape in a private establishment or in a state or federal building, or on hospital .premises, and on and on and on.
The only way for a person to LEGITIMATELY blame teenagers for breaking the law, is by having absolutely saintly behavior at all times yourself. I'm fairly certain that is NOT the case.
I'm also fairly certain that many "punish the kids for vaping" folk yelling the loudest stole their parents cigarettes.
Grow up. Seriously. Grow up, and realize that in America, the only reason issues get "advertised" like this is because the government needs a RATIONAL to suck at vaping. If it hadn't been kids, perhaps stealth vaping by adults would have become the issue.
If I'm going to point fingers at a teen, I have 4 others pointing directly at myself. I'm not saying I'm a hardened felon, either, I'm a relatively upstanding member of society. That may NOT have been the case if I'd been criminalized as a youth, I can pretty much guarantee THAT. Stamping OUT my antisocial behaviors took effort and HELP on my part, and if I'd just been locked up, I'm pretty sure the eventual outcome would have been poor.
Locking teens up (even suggesting it) is the lowest of the low behavior for VAPERS.
And, by the way, teens or now, they are coming for your vape. The government is arriving, and changes will come, so I hope you are stocking up, not just complaining how teens "ruin it for the rest of us." THAT is BITING exactly where Trump and all his minions WANT you to bite. You participate in your own destruction.
Vaping was doomed since the moment it started working. Some folks had a longer time to vape unimpeded, and I understand the dismay, but make NO mistake, it is NOT the teens fault. This is ALL manufactured.
Anna
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
