Senators urge FDA to take action on Juul e-cigarettes

[Opinionated]

The only reason to criminalize teen behavior rather than treat it, is extreme violence, because at that point, it may be too late.

If we criminalize teens for vaping, (it's already possible to do, here) but if our society decides that is the way, I will cry.

You know, everything was so much less "safety" oriented when I grew up. I'm fairly certain the parents expected a certain amount of acting out, but my high school class garnered the reputation of the "best 'good kids' while being simultaneously AWFUL, and I do mean AWFUL, we were really a problem. My (private arts school) even hired a pedophile (I don't even think they did a background check) and so that was... interesting. I wound up being the one teenager who was read to go inform the school I "slept" with my English teacher (I was almost 18, but he was stalking, and I do mean stalking, my little sis, who was 13 and she was freaking out. Since she didn't want to tell my parents what was going on, I just told her I'd get him fired (I'm the family black sheep anyway) and then proceeded to do so, and sure, it sucked. And sure, if the school had been WILLING to call the cops, I totally would've testified (I told them so) but they just went for a firing. Meh. He got locked up later down the line.

My point is, though, teens do dumb stuff ALL the time, including sleeping with their pedophile English teacher who provided alcohol, and yet, some how, we all survived and became functional adults, even with all this crazy "Harm." NO one in our class (okay, maybe 3 people) did not experiment with illegal substances and whatnot and NO one is dead (yet) and we all turned into pretty cool adults, way cooler than we were as teens.

It takes SO MUCH harm for teens before something dreadful happens, and there is a point at which I just say, you know, life has knocks and sometimes the best "knocks" happen totally inadvertently, but I learned a ton from turning in my pedophile English teacher and I actually do NOT regret it happening (it turned me into a better person) even though, at the time, it sucked.

You can not stop a teenager from experimenting with WHATEVER. It's really best not to criminalize stuff at least on the teen, IMO. Etc. Etc.

Anna

I must respectfully disagree with you here..

It's not easy to get vape gear if your underage. Shops ask for ID. But your right - kids who want to experiment will ALWAYS find a way. Older freinds, stealing from people.. they figure it out.

But here's the deal.. if your going to make something illegal it does no good If there isn't any consequence to breaking the law.

Therefore, it should be the same amount of illegal for a kid to be in possession of illegal items as it is for the seller to sell to them.

And yes, it means criminalizing children. It means putting some of them in juvenile hall. It means consequences for actions.

If we don't want to criminalize children, then we need to consider what we are making illegal and limit that to the things which will harm them and others most, and stop considering removing all consequences.

We have to teach kids how to be adults and teach them to be responsible citizens. We cannot do that if we teach them laws are meaningless.

 

[untar]

Shops don't sell to kids.

Untrue

The agency said it had conducted an undercover operation this month, and issued the warnings to about 40 retailers, including gas stations and convenience stores, accusing them of violations for selling these products to minors.

F.D.A. Cracks Down on Sales of E-Cigarettes to Minors

 

[stols001]

A lot of laws actually are pretty meaningless. I don't advocate for a lawless society, but I also don't like to see kids with issues used as pawns for the FDA.

I do not agree with MUCH about America's approach to teen issues, but I LOATHE the criminal justice system due to inconsistencies, targeting certain groups (sometimes deliberately) and as I already STATED, I think in REPLACEMENT of criminalizing vaping KIDS, there should be money focused on assistance and treatment.

You can give a consequence without locking someone up. There are teens that deserve to be locked up, but not for vaping, in my opinion.

I teach children struggling with those issues that laws may be unfair, but there are still consequences for breaking them. If I disagree with a particular law, I will say so. To the teen. I will also say, the idea of criminalizing vaping at all is something I personally disagree with.

I also hate to see everyone doing "what the FDA wants." The FDA wants every ADULT vaper to focus on the kids, saying THEY are the problem WHILE everything gets lined up to "fix": vaping for everyone.

I don't understand why ANYONE would play into the FDA's plans like this. It's awful.

Anna

 

[Mowgli]

I did what I wanted until the consequences outweighed my stubbornness.
Total JD & master manipulator.
Nothing changed until I was beaten into a state of reasonableness.
Some kids will obey when told "don't". Some won't.

 

[Opinionated]

Nvm..

 

[JCinFLA]

IMO, there has been a steady decline in holding kids responsible for their own actions...for years. I saw it declining little by little as I was teaching mostly 5th & 6th graders for 30 years; while being a foster parent to 13-17 year old teens for 5 years and seeing what their friends got away with (with little to no consequences);...and it has continued to decline since then.

If kids aren't held responsible for their actions, especially by the time they're teens, they think they don't have to be responsible for their actions as adults either. Just my 2 cents.

ETA: It doesn't matter, IMO, if it's concerning underage vaping, or staying out later than they're supposed to, or petty shoplifting, or taking the car without parental permission, skipping school, etc. There have to be consequences, especially ones that matter to the kid...or they won't have any effect on the kid's future behavior.

 

[untar]

I don't even think there's a debate about whether there need to be consequences. The disagreement is about who has to act on it. Do you really want the state to step in and put kids in juvenile prison for juuling?

there has been a steady decline in holding kids responsible for their own actions...for years

Seems to be the same as in Germany. Personally I think responsible parenting has declined at about the same rate. I don't know the solution to that but what I do know is I'm not in favor of government taking over from parents in the long run.

 

[Opinionated]

I think anyone would agree that if the choice is between teens smoking cigarettes and vaping we'd all rather see them vape.

From the year 2000 to present day the decline in teen smoking has matched the rise in teen vaping, if the studies are to be believed.

And honestly, if this is the choice among the percentage of teens who will apparently always experiment, smoking or vaping, then I'd rather see it be vaping.

It is safer than smoking.

 

[Cas002]

I think the FDA statement today is very encouraging because they are focused (at least for now) on enforcing existing laws and calling out retailers caught selling to minors - great first step. Kids will find creative ways to get access to Juuls and other e-cig products but let's make it as hard as possible while not adding too much more friction for adults to access the products...we'll see how the FDA will execute on that. Locking up kids for Juuling won't work and only expose them to other kids that have FAR greater problems and simply do more damage to them then a Juul ever would. The FDA is using their muscle, and authority based on existing law, to help prevent access of ENDS to minors and I'm perfectly fine if they stop there but I suspect more is coming. FDA, please don't *@#* with my access to hardware, nic or flavors and we'll have a great relationship for years to come

 

[JCinFLA]

Removed duplicate post. Sorry!

 

[JCinFLA]

I don't even think there's a debate about whether there need to be consequences. The disagreement is about who has to act on it. Do you really want the state to step in and put kids in juvenile prison for juuling?

Right or wrong in anyone's opinion...if/when underage vaping does become illegal, just like underage drinking, or underage shoplifting, underage car theft, etc..since a juvenile is involved, wouldn't the juvenile justice system handle it? I, personally, don't see how underage vaping could/should be handled differently than other underage illegal activities of a similar severity.

I have an older brother who at age 16 decided with some of his buddies to skip school one day, drive an hour away to the beach, and have a few beers while there. They were caught and spent the rest of the day and part of the night in a jail cell...waiting for their parents to come from out of town, to have them released to their custody. There were consequences when each 1 of them got home, and for the next several months. None of them ever pulled that stunt again!

Personally I think responsible parenting has declined at about the same rate. I don't know the solution to that but what I do know is I'm not in favor of government taking over from parents in the long run.

That stands to reason, since kids being irresponsible for their actions just doesn't happen out of the blue. It's a learned/allowed state of mind, IMO. I have a mid-30 year old nephew who is a perfect example of that, unfortunately. Parents have to agree on holding their child responsible for their actions, and facing the consequences of those actions as they grow up, or it doesn't happen.

Do you believe that parents who haven't been parenting responsibly...will suddenly do it if/when their teen is caught vaping underage? How about parents of an underage teen caught drinking? Or a teen shoplifting an item or 2? Where would the lines be drawn on what illegal activities parents should be allowed to handle and which ones the police or juvenile authorities handle?

Edited to correct my mis-statement.

 

[untar]

underage vaping is currently illegal

I was under the impression buying or selling was illegal, not the act of vaping. Do you have a source for vaping being illegal? Is that US wide or only in certain states?

Do you believe that parents who haven't been parenting responsibly...will suddenly do it if/when their teen is caught vaping underage?

What kind of question is that?

 

[zoiDman]

Right or wrong in anyone's opinion...underage vaping is currently illegal, ...

Not sure about the State where you live?

But in the one I live in, it is Not Illegal for a Minor to use an e-Cigarette. Or to be in Possession of one.

The Only exception I know of is on a Public School property. And as I understand it, that would Not be a Criminal Infraction.

Not Advocating Minors using e-Cigarettes. Just clarifying what Is and what Is Not Legal where I live.

 

[JCinFLA]

Sorry, for the mis-statement...I should have said, "If/when underage vaping becomes illegal...". It's already illegal for an underage teen to buy or sell vaping gear, just like it is for them to buy or sell booze. It's illegal for them to drink booze, so I doubt that actually vaping will be far off, the way things seem to be heading anyway.

 

[JCinFLA]

What kind of question is that?

To me it was a logical question, based on what you'd said in your post below:

Personally I think responsible parenting has declined at about the same rate. I don't know the solution to that but what I do know is I'm not in favor of government taking over from parents in the long run.

 

[zoiDman]

New FDA enforcement actions

 

[Janusz]

ETA: It doesn't matter, IMO, if it's concerning underage vaping, or staying out later than they're supposed to, or petty shoplifting, or taking the car without parental permission, skipping school, etc. There have to be consequences, especially ones that matter to the kid...or they won't have any effect on the kid's future behavior.

IMHO it does matter. Vaping similarly as drinking/smoking/skipping school is not a crime... when I was teenager I and most of my friends did such things in communist govern country without government penalizing... and America that calls itself of Land of Freedom looks to jail more people than any country in the world...

More than half century of "war on drugs" produced no difference in drug use in America and created prison-industrial complex in the United States paid by taxpayers... "eldorado" for criminals, lawyers and big corporations...at least 37 states have legalized the contracting of prison labor by private corporations that mount their operations inside state prisons. The list of such companies contains the cream of U.S. corporate society: IBM, Boeing, Motorola, Microsoft, AT&T, Wireless, Texas Instrument, Dell, Compaq, Honeywell, Hewlett-Packard, Nortel, Lucent Technologies, 3Com, Intel, Northern Telecom, TWA, Nordstrom’s, Revlon, Macy’s, Pierre Cardin, Target Stores...Inmates in state penitentiaries generally receive the minimum wage for their work, but in privately-run prisons, they receive as little as 17 cents per hour for a maximum of six hours a day, the equivalent of $20 per month.

Since marijuana no longer produce enough fresh inmates (too many states legalize it) ...yeah, lets criminalize kids, lock them up for vaping or skipping school... and if they will not learn "the lesson" let's apply to them “three strikes” laws (life in prison after being convicted of three felonies) big corp will be happy...

Ninety-seven percent of 125,000 federal inmates have been convicted of non-violent crimes (Federal law stipulates five years’ imprisonment without possibility of parole for possession of 5 grams of crack or 3.5 ounces of ......, and 10 years for possession of less than 2 ounces of rock-....... or crack.... Two-thirds of the one million state prisoners have committed non-violent offenses.

United States has locked up more people than any other country: a half million more than China, which has a population five times greater than the U.S...

 

[Rossum]

Teach them to be responsible for their actions.

If their actions consist of stealing something, physically hurting someone else, or damaging someone else's property, the by all means, yes, they should be held to account, because it is malum in se.

But simple use or possession of a tobacco product, or alcohol, or other intoxicant does not rise to that level; there is no victim, and it is an utterly arbitrary malum prohibitum. There is no moral justification to incarcerate anyone for such a "crime".

 

[stols001]

Well, I'm more chill about this. I can see merits on both sides of the equation. I don't want any teen to be doing illegal acts and I agree with consequences. I just have a very hard time with the idea of incarceration and entry into the juvenile justice system over vaping, but ultimately, it's going to come down to how it is approached by the government and I don't think my opinion means much.

It is true that the kids who are going to be penalized the most in the JV system are OFTEN kids whose parents don't intervene. But not always. I also agree that there are personalities hard headed enough to need to "meet" the law face to face, in fact my own kid was one of them. But what landed him in hot water was orders of magnitude higher than vaping. He also got all the support in the world to help him sort out his consequences.

But, from the perspective, "What you did was wrong, you will not get further help after this point." He was also an adult by then, etc. However, I'm pretty sure had he not "met" the law face to face he wouldn't be where he was today.

I'm pretty sure that is not the case for all teens/young adults. Some benefit, some don't, but wasting that sort of resource on vaping isn't fantastic.

Anna

 

[JCinFLA]

IMHO it does matter. Vaping similarly as drinking/smoking/skipping school is not a crime

Huh? Your long post about US prisons, their populations, prison industrial complexes, wages of inmates, etc., etc., in response to what I posted that you quoted...makes no sense! My post was about the steady decline of holding kids responsible for their actions and the need for consequences that make a difference to the kids.