Slow Cooker Extraction of Tobacco and Tea

[billherbst]

I think the now two-day "cook" of the four cigar macerations may be sufficient.

After a second all-day heated water bath, I checked the maceration jars this morning. To differing degrees, the tobaccos had soaked up almost all the visible liquid. I used the droppers from 3.7ml glass dropper bottles to siphon up 18 drops of liquid from each maceration, then mixed each bottle to a 50/50 18mg DIY test juice. All the extracts are a dark color, and the juices made from them are golden amber of varying shades from one to the next. None of the liquids are what I'd call "dark," and all of them are clear (as opposed to cloudy) transparencies, but they're not as nearly as pale as MyVapeJuice cigar NETs. The test juices are roughly the same darkness as most of my earlier extractions of cigarette and pipe tobaccos.

After vaping each by atty-dripping, what I find common to all four is an initial "bite" that's quite sharp and unlike most pipe or cigarette NETs I've had (which tend to be smooth), whether my own extractions or retail juices. That's followed by the onset of a smoother and more subtle cigar flavor that extends through the exhale. The early "bite" is mostly impact; the flavor emerges after that.

Interestingly, The Rocky Patel Vintage 1900 and Aging Room F55 juices are similar in flavor profile, enough so that I'm not sure I could tell them apart in a blind tasting. By contrast, the Carlos Torrano 1959 and Oliva Nub Cameroon are more distinctly individual: Each is its own creature.

Now on to filtering. Having doubled the tobacco in each maceration, little to no visible liquid remains in the jars. The tobacco has absorbed the liquid. I'll have to squeeze the clump of tobacco solids to obtain any sort of decent yield of extract liquid. But that's what the first-stage French Press Pot filter is for.

It's possible that these would turn out better with another day of heated water bath or an additional week or two of room-temperature steeping, but I'll make the bet that simply steeping the finished/filtered extract (by letting it age naturally) will accomplish the same thing.

 

[billherbst]

I've been vaping the cigar test bottles, and I'm becoming more and more pleased with the results as the day goes on.

The Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 Churchill and the Aging Room F55 are now distinguishing themselves from each other very nicely. The Rocky Patel is classic cigar. The "leather and wood" noted in the description are coming through now. By contrast, the Aging Room F55 is now revealing the "coffee and sweet cedar." Both are delicious---not strong flavors at this point, but very nice.

All four juices are gold-amber, but the Rocky Patel and Aging Room are lighter---more golden than amber---while the Carlos Torano Exodus 1959 50 Years and Oliva Nub Cameroon are both slightly darker---more amber than gold. Those latter two are also more flavored with casings, with cocoa, nuts, and berries in the Torano, versus cedar/coffee in the Oliva Nub.

After four hours of atty-dripping, the Rocky Patel is my early favorite, since it says, "I'm a cigar" so eloquently, but which one I like best could change over time. Given my ever-shifting palate, it probably will. They're all good, though.

 

[boomerdude]

I really enjoy your posts on cigars Bill. I was a pipe smoker back in the day, and my cigar knowledge is lacking. All I know is that I enjoy Dominican filler wrapped in Connecticut broadleaf. So, other than going by a cigar rating 90 or above I can only test a cigar extract and hope for the best.

I have all the extracts from the swap mixed and steeping. They're staring at me right now. They're whispering, " Take a taste. You know you want to. A few drips isn't going to hurt."

I gave in and tried the American Spirit Organic. Taste like what I thought Big Spirit should have. Very good. The Sundancer juice bottle keeps wiggling off the shelf. It's gonna keep doing it until I break down and try a few drops.

 

[billherbst]

Boomer,

When I quit smoking cigarettes after 40 years (2010), I knew a little about tobacco, but not much. As someone who used only cigs, never cigars or pipes, I knew that Virginia was different from Latakia, but I couldn't have described the difference.

90% of what I know about tobacco has been learned over the past year. I'm now in junior high school with regard to pipe tobacco blends, but I'm in kindergarten with cigars. LOL.

The American Spirit Organic is my favorite tobacco for mixing with other flavors/juices. It's solid, dependable, not exotic, and tastes good. Skydancer was my very first extraction in March 2013 (inspired by Scarf-ace's generosity and this thread). I made it with two packs of Skydancer Native American cigarettes that had been stored in my garage for three years and were dry as hell, but I didn't want to invest any money in something I might turn out either to hate or be lousy at.

Skydancer is the least of all my extracts, but it gave me my sea legs and got me started. At the one year mark, the Skydancer extract seems to have aged nicely and now tastes better to me (less floral and more tobacco) than it did when first extracted. It's not bad, but I've learned so much since then about both tobacco and extracting. I still have a long way to go, of course, but the journey is a happy one so far, especially so now that I have compatriots (you, Johni, and Dustmight) with whom to share.

 

[boomerdude]

That's what it's all about. Having fun and making new friends.

I just realized that I have a ton of vape gear getting little use now that I'm solely vaping nets. Gotta have RBA's & RDA's to vape nets. I am making a coil for my new Russian 91% right now. Going to christen it with a new blend I made from Burley's, Virginias and a bit of Oriental. It's pretty good.

 

[billherbst]

I gave the four cigar macerations another seven-hour heat steep in the warm water bath overnight, and I'm fairly certain that the temperature of the water bath is low enough that another 24 hours past that won't hurt them. Since flavor is the issue with this batch, I want to make sure that I've done everything possible to extract all the flavor these cigars can provide.

That'll make a four-day heat assisted maceration for this batch. Heck, I might even go further than that if the flavor still comes up shorter than I want. Maybe I'll end up doing a combination heat-assisted/cold-process steep by putting the jars on my kitchen windowsill for an extra week or so.

I'm surprised that the tobacco has soaked up so much of the 70/30 PG/VG. I guess I shouldn't be, since I'm using only half the PG/VG volume (70ml) that I've typically used for the same weight of cigarette and pipe blend tobaccos. If I'm going to get 50ml of extract out of these macerations, they'll all need to be pressed with as much pressure as I can manage. I actually added 10ml more PG yesterday to the Oliva Nub Cameroon, since there was no visible liquid left in the jar. These chopped-up cigars are like little sponges.

 

[billherbst]

boomer,

I mixed up a small bottle of juice from the Rocky Patel Sun Grown Robusto extract you sent me to compare it to my Rocky Patel 1990 Churchill.

Mixed at the same percentage (20%), the Robusto juice was almost colorless and had about the same amount of flavor as my not-ready-for-prime-time test bottle of 1990 Churchill. Nice to know that I'm not crazy or doing something obviously wrong with the extraction.

What mix percentage do you use with your Robusto extract?

 

[boomerdude]

I do 30%. RPSGR is like Acid Blonde, it doesn't extract a lot of flavor. I just opened a tube of Nat Sherman Dominican #2. It was suppose to go to someone to try but they got there own. It's been sitting for 4 months and boy it sure tastes different. My experience is that the longer a light cigar juice sits, the better it gets. RPSGR should steep awhile after you've mixed it into a juice.

 

[1stimer]

I want to try this method, but I am hesitant to get started. You guys talk about using the "net" flavoring you get as a base. So....

1. Are you just mixing different NET's together, or are you mixing the NET's with other flavors?

2. What percentage of NET are you using in your mixes?

3. What commercial juice could I try that might give me an idea of the flavor that you are looking to recreate?

4. Anyone want to sell a sample to see if this is something I might want to explore further?

 

[Scotsman6783]

This may be a dumb question, but do you think this method would work fine with just PG?

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[johni]

This may be a dumb question, but do you think this method would work fine with just PG?

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I use only PG but currently use the cold method. All PG will work fine with the slow cooker method and it filters much easier than a VG blend.

 

[johni]

I want to try this method, but I am hesitant to get started. You guys talk about using the "net" flavoring you get as a base. So....

1. Are you just mixing different NET's together, or are you mixing the NET's with other flavors?

2. What percentage of NET are you using in your mixes?

3. What commercial juice could I try that might give me an idea of the flavor that you are looking to recreate?

4. Anyone want to sell a sample to see if this is something I might want to explore further?

Read here to learn about NETs: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ussion/519685-natural-tobaccos-part-deux.html

 

[Scotsman6783]

I use only PG but currently use the cold method. All PG will work fine with the slow cooker method and it filters much easier than a VG blend.

Figured it would, but you never know.

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[billherbst]

I want to try this method, but I am hesitant to get started. You guys talk about using the "net" flavoring you get as a base.

The word base can be confusing with eliquids. People do sometimes talk about a "base flavor," meaning a core flavoring to which other additional modifying flavors are then added. More often, base refers to the unflavored PG/VG liquid in which flavoring is dissolved. Context is the only reliable way to distinguish the two meanings.

1. Are you just mixing different NET's together, or are you mixing the NET's with other flavors?

NET is an acronym that stand for Naturally Extracted Tobacco, or, more correctly, Natural Tobacco Extract. The various methods to extract flavoring from real tobacco were developed as an alternative to synthetic, lab-based, artificial tobacco flavorings, which too often taste nothing like real tobacco.

Natural tobacco extracts are often used by themselves as flavoring for eliquid (meaning with no other flavorings, only PG/VG and liquid nic). Sometimes an NET is combined with other natural tobacco extracts to produce a more complex tobacco blend, and also with non-tobacco flavorings. For instance, RY4 is tobacco, caramel, and vanilla. Most RY4s use synthetic tobacco flavoring, but some use NET extract flavoring.

2. What percentage of NET are you using in your mixes?

That varies widely, depending on the particular extract and the intensity of flavor desired by a specific vaper.

3. What commercial juice could I try that might give me an idea of the flavor that you are looking to recreate?

Some people are looking to recreate the "experience" of smoking tobacco in a vaping flavor. That wish tends to fade as one gains experience in vaping, since it's really not possible, nor even desirable. Most of us here on this thread aren't trying to "recreate" anything. We're looking to obtain the essential, inherent flavor of real tobacco, in all its varieties, since we like it.

That said, many of the tobaccos we use for our extractions are "blended," meaning that a tobacconist combined various kinds of tobaccos, often with other non-tobacco flavorings, to produce a commercial product---pipe tobacco, cigar, cigarette, whatever.

Read up on this thread: Natural Tobaccos Part Deux

Although the first post is under luceblueboy's name, I compiled the List of NET Vendors and wrote the explanatory text that appears in that first post.

4. Anyone want to sell a sample to see if this is something I might want to explore further?

Start with a retail NET juice first. I'd recommend Blue Grass Burley from Ahlusion, but literally hundreds of others are available.

 

[billherbst]

...do you think this method would work fine with just PG?

Yes, 100% PG will work perfectly well as the base liquid for a maceration, and---as Johni states---PG is much easier to filter than VG.

I use a blend of PG/VG in my heat-assisted macerations, but that's just my personal preference. VG adds a bit of sweetness that I like, but all-PG extracts are fine.

 

[Scotsman6783]

Yes, 100% PG will work perfectly well as the base liquid for a maceration, and---as Johni states---PG is much easier to filter than VG.

I use a blend of PG/VG in my heat-assisted macerations, but that's just my personal preference. VG adds a bit of sweetness that I like, but all-PG extracts are fine.

I just wanted to double check. When it comes to even basic chemistry changing something can be catastrophic.
I have a pipe blend i got at a re-enactment back in October and figured i would try using it as a first time NET trial. It is still quite moist as it has been kept in a small ziploc style bag. I have about an ounce. Not sure what strains are blended with it though( the tobaccoist was out and the woman running the booth didnt have a clue what i meant when i asked.)

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[boomerdude]

PG is all I use to extract. It's fine.

1stimer - You can mix single varietals or extract flavored cigars or tobacco. For example, you could extract a burley, Virginia and/or an oriental and mix the three. The percentages vary, usually 20-30%. You can also extract something like Sunday Morning tobacco and mix it up to smoke strait. Same with a flavored cigar like a Tatiana Honey. Also, you can add commercial flavored concentrates to a varietal mix to give the tobacco a flavor note.

There a several juice vendors that sell NET juices and a few sell extracts.

Ahlusion
Goodejuice
Mountain Oak
Want2Vape

NET.com and MyVapeJuice sell extracts.

Trades for NET's are on the PIF and Trade sub-forum.

I don't know any NETizens here on ECF that sell NET's but several of us trade. Once you get a few extracts under your belt you can ask to trade. You can also trade any vendor extracts or NET juices that you don't want or didn't like.

Hope that answers your questions.

 

[Dustmight]

I want to try this method, but I am hesitant to get started. You guys talk about using the "net" flavoring you get as a base. So....

1. Are you just mixing different NET's together, or are you mixing the NET's with other flavors?

2. What percentage of NET are you using in your mixes?

3. What commercial juice could I try that might give me an idea of the flavor that you are looking to recreate?

4. Anyone want to sell a sample to see if this is something I might want to explore further?

I just wanted to chime in and echo everything Bill, Johni & Boomer have already mentioned. I would also recommend (even thought it's a bit of a read) to go back and skim this entire thread. There's a ton of information that folks have shared during their discovery of this process that's sure to be a great help in getting you started. I also can't stress enough how much patience plays a part in making your own NETs. I nearly tossed everything my first few trys, as the results were just not what I was expecting. Especially if you're holding your brews up to what commercial vendors are doing. I say dive in and experiment. It's the only way you'll know for sure if NETs are for you. Oh yeah, and get another hobby in the meantime cause waiting through the steeping is the hardest part!

 

[1stimer]

Thank you guys for the replies. 20-30% --wow. I usually use flavorings at a 15% total, so this is the information I was looking for.

I will try a couple commercial NET juices first as I have only used one tobaccoish flavor (RY4 double) as a base in my limited DIY journey so far. Thanks for the recommendations on those.

I don't think I have enough posts yet to qualify for the classifieds sections, but I'll double check on that. Maybe I'm getting confused with the 50 post minimum from an audiophile site that I frequent to be able to gain access to the classifieds section.

I am also awaiting a kayfun atomizer and will need to learn to rebuild coils because all i have used so far is clearomizers and I think these will get destroyed quickly with NET's. Thanks again guys. I will continue to research and hopefully be able to contribute more in the future.

 

[boomerdude]

You need to be a Verified member to qualify for trades and sales.