Billy Budd is definitely a Lat bomb with Maduro. Strong pouch aroma and lots of flavor.
Slow Cooker Extraction of Tobacco and Tea
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That is true Mike, and billherbst did his Rocky Patel 1990 Vintage for 5 days at a reasonably high temp, can't remember exactly what it was, somewhere around 160 degrees F I think. In this case, I gave it a tiny headstart with the microwave, and then put 10% PGA into the PG solvent, which I have found to speed up the maceration process by a large factor. I have done cold macerations in 5 days that would normally take a month without PGA, or 4 hours hot compared to 24 hours hot without PGA. So I was aiming for 12 to 16 hours at close to 160 degrees F for my cigar experiment but ended up with 11 hrs. I have plenty of that cigar left for further experiments, but will wait and see how this one goes.
The temperature also affects the speed of a hot maceration, the time required seems to exponentially decrease as temperature is increased (IMO), well maybe not exponentially but definitely not linear either. I cannot find any reference to this in my Google searches, so I'm stumped by this observation. If anyone knows something, please fill me in.
I did try to keep up with the Natural tobacco thread, since a lot of home brewers sporadically post great info there, but I dropped out due to my lack of interest in commercial NET's, which is what that thread is focused on.
I would love to share/swap NET samples to others in this world but shipping from Australia starts at $18, making it cheaper to buy a commercial NET. However, if I can find a container that will hold some NET that is less than 5mm thick (just under 1/4" thick) I could send out samples anywhere in the world for just $2.60 in a standard envelope. If anyone has a suggestion, I would love to hear it!!
I've had at least 2 macerations go for 3 months cold, in straight PG, in a dark cupboard, with no bad things happening. That in itself doesn't mean much though. I read something to the effect that it is difficult for organisms to grow in PG, so I never worried about it. SG Vanilla Black Cavendish certainly benefited from 3 months, and 2 months for Luxury Navy Flake was only just enough I think. The only tobacco blends I would do for just one month cold would be ones with no added flavoring and/or that I was confident it would be OK with just one month (i.e. if I had done them before).
What I like most about adding some PGA to the PG solvent is the ability to be able to vape a nice flavor within 48 hours of receiving the tobacco, or within a week for a cold maceration. If you only use 10% PGA in the PG solvent you don't need to reduce it, as far as I know, since the final alcohol content in the vaped juice will be 1 to 2% max. It seems to steep faster as well.
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I have spent the last two evenings reading this awesome thread! I was doing some research about using loose leaf tea to make extractions from when I found this thread. I have recently been turned on to loose leaf tea and tasted one the other day and the light bulb went off in my head that I would love to vape that flavor. It is a Black Bourbon Tea and it is awesome! Anyway, I have a few questions before I start my first extraction.
I will be using straight PG for my extractions and that will be the only PG in the final juice. I primarily drip and like higher VG juices. I have been reading about adding PGA to speed up the process. How much PGA do I add? Also, how to you evaporate all of the PGA out and know that all of the PGA is gone before you make the juice? I would be interested to know the exact steps involved when using PGA. Also, could you use alcohol other than PGA to add a distinctive flavor and still evaporate the alcohol out. I'm thinking of scotches and bourbons. I want to retain the flavor but evaporate the alcohol.
In case it helps any, I have been vaping for a little over a year and this is my first foray into DIY juice. I mainly drip but also use a Kayfun and some genesis style atomizers. I will primarily be making this juice for dripping.
Thanks!
I will be using straight PG for my extractions and that will be the only PG in the final juice. I primarily drip and like higher VG juices. I have been reading about adding PGA to speed up the process. How much PGA do I add? Also, how to you evaporate all of the PGA out and know that all of the PGA is gone before you make the juice? I would be interested to know the exact steps involved when using PGA. Also, could you use alcohol other than PGA to add a distinctive flavor and still evaporate the alcohol out. I'm thinking of scotches and bourbons. I want to retain the flavor but evaporate the alcohol.
In case it helps any, I have been vaping for a little over a year and this is my first foray into DIY juice. I mainly drip but also use a Kayfun and some genesis style atomizers. I will primarily be making this juice for dripping.
Thanks!
Dustmite's Mississippi River is what made me get into macerations myself. I haven't found such a satisfying complex and yet tasty NET yet. Mind you that's my own personal taste. I'm not a Lat lover but I do like it in small portions to add complexity and that is exactly what his Mississippi River gives.
I have tried extracting some of my own but it may need to steep more because it doesn't have the depth and flavor his does.
I didn't know Dustmite did MR also. I have his Esoterica Penzance in my rotation as it's one of my favorites. His Devil's Holiday and Royal Cajun aren't too shabby either.
I don't use alcohol in my extractions but I do know that the higher the percentage of PGA the better. A flavored alcohol like Bourbon or Rum should be 100 Proof at the minimum. The alcohol evaporates rather quickly and you will have the Bourbon or other flavor remaining. I'll leave the evaporation time for someone else to answer as my experience is only using it with juice and not extracts.
Ok, so I'm going BIG!!! I have started my first 3 extractions. I have two teas and a tobacco blend in the crock pot. I have a neat little story about the tobacco blend. I went into a local cigar store here to see if they sell pipe tobacco. I have never really smoked either so had no idea what to expect. When I told the guy in the store what I wanted to do, he handed me a bag and said here just take it. He said it was a blend they came up with there in the store. It's a blend of two blended tobaccos. I will link to a review of each below. I thought that was a nice gesture and if this turns out well I will be returning to buy more. So here is more detail of each extraction.
Black Bourbon Tea - This is a loose leaf tea bought locally. It is a black tea with vanilla bean all of which had been soaked in old bourbon barrels for flavor.
Wise Shaman Chai - This is a loose leaf chai tea bought at the same local tea shop. I made tea from it last evening and it has a nice anise flavor.
Coffe House Blend Tobacco (Local Blend) - This uses tow blended tobaccos both of which are from McClelland. Just Plain Nut (McClelland - Bulk No.110 Just Plain Nut - Tobacco Reviews) and Columbian Mocha (McClelland - Bulk No.710 Colombian Mocha - Tobacco Reviews).
The tobacco blend smells delightful so I have very high hopes for this. I can't wait to give this a try. I have a feeling I am going to be in for a pleasent surprise considering I have never tried any NET juices in the year I have been vaping.
Black Bourbon Tea - This is a loose leaf tea bought locally. It is a black tea with vanilla bean all of which had been soaked in old bourbon barrels for flavor.
Wise Shaman Chai - This is a loose leaf chai tea bought at the same local tea shop. I made tea from it last evening and it has a nice anise flavor.
Coffe House Blend Tobacco (Local Blend) - This uses tow blended tobaccos both of which are from McClelland. Just Plain Nut (McClelland - Bulk No.110 Just Plain Nut - Tobacco Reviews) and Columbian Mocha (McClelland - Bulk No.710 Colombian Mocha - Tobacco Reviews).
The tobacco blend smells delightful so I have very high hopes for this. I can't wait to give this a try. I have a feeling I am going to be in for a pleasent surprise considering I have never tried any NET juices in the year I have been vaping.
Very interested on how your tobacco blend turns out. Looking at the blend it looks like it may need to steep a bit to get the nuttiness and mocha to blend well. Good luck!
Macerated tobacco extracts (and the juices made from them) need steeping time for the unadulterated tobacco-ness to develop, deepen, and move forward in the flavor profile to compete against (and ultimately complement) the other, non-tobacco casings/toppings, which are likely to taste stronger when the extract is new and fresh. That's a given. Assuming that all goes well in the extraction process, Greg's two-blend 'bacco combo should be interesting to vape at every stage, from its infancy through its adulthood. It'll just change over time, evolving from a "tobacco HYBRID" to more of a "TOBACCO hybrid".
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Not disagreeing with any point. Just saying that with a bit of steeping that nuttiness of the burly will go well with the mocha but you may have to wait for that.
Or you may get one flavor first and the second flavor later. With the two never joining together. Happens to my extracts once in awhile. The tobacco flavor fades and the casing flavor takes over.
Yes, anything is possible. We're dealing with many factors/variables we don't know and can't control. What surprises me is the high percentage of successes. No, I'm not in love with all 45 of my extracts. Some are good in the beginning but fade in my estimation over time. Others were disappointing from the get-go and never got better. Still others please me well enough, but don't thrill me. OK, that's life. I don't expect to win the NET Lottery every time out.
I'm happy with about 2/3 of my extracts, and to me, that's a pretty good batting average.
Interesting points. I should also add that I am doing my extractions in 100% PG. I like my juices mostly VG so I am hoping that the only PG is in the flavoring. I just checked on them and after 3.5 hours I can already start to see the coloration in the liquid. Also, maybe I should ask this. I am planning on letting them stay in the crock pot for about 26 hours straight. Does anyone see any issues with this. Because of my work schedule I can do this and not do several separate cooks.
Is it OK to let a crock-pot heat-assisted maceration go for 26 hours straight? My strong opinion is that none of us here can offer a definitive answer to your question, at least not one that's hard-and-fast or objectively valid and reliable. I'd suggest that you try it and find out. I would suggest, however, that very low heat is more likely to produce pleasing results in that situation. What's "very low heat?" 120° or less. 130° max. (That's Farenheit, obviously, but you knew that...)
We're making this up as we go along.
Ouch! I just decided to drop my digital temperature probe in the crock pot (don't know why I didn't think of that earlier) and it read 205 degrees. I have now turned it down to the warm setting and have taken the lid off to get the temp lower. They have only been in there about 4 hours. I hope I didn't burn anything up. Also, does anyone stir at any point. I notice that most of the tobacco and tea leaves are just sitting on the bottom of the jar.
Greg, I did the same thing on my first extraction. Mine was about 2 hrs at 200 before I realized. Turned it to warm and left the lid part way off overnight. Extractions turned out just fine. So don't worry, you didn't ruin anything.
NOTE: Sale at Pipes and Cigars. 24 hours 20% off everything coupon code LOYAL.
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I just he opened to think of something as I heard a pop in the kitchen. I am using mason jars with the mason jar lids and because I took the lid off the crock pot and the temp lowered enough, one of the jars just sealed. This essentially creates a vaccum. I have been reading people talking about putting a vaccum on them to speed IP the process so I wonder if this could only be a good thing. Only time will tell.
Sorry the last post had a bunch of grammatical errors. Posting from my phone. Lol
Hi Greg, I've not used PGA when processing heat assisted PG macerations but have used it when processing room temperature batches. I've used various ratios of PG/PGA blended solvents and have yet to settle on a optimum mix ratio (still experimenting), with 25% PG/ 75% PGA being the last ratio used during a 100 hour soak. I'm also going to experiment with 90% PG/ 10% PGA macerations in extended duration room temperature soaks. Other home extractors have played with 10-15% PGA in heat assisted PG macerations but I don't know what the results were. Personally, I believe the PGA might be too aggressive at elevated temperatures, but that's just my opinion.
There are many ways to determine when the PGA has evaporated off. I do the following; After the maceration process is finished and the filtering is complete I measure how much "extract" I have. If I have 100ml of extract and the mix ratio was 25% PG and 75% PGA, I would know that close to 25ml of the total extract is PG and 75ml is PGA. I would then pour the extract into a clean canning jar and mark the fluid level on the side. Assuming I wanted to evaporate all of the PGA (75ml), from the extract I would start by adding that amount of PG (75ml), to the extract and mixing it in. Then simply allow the uncovered jar to sit for a few days until the fluid level drops back down to the mark. You can also gently heat the extract to expedite the evaporation process, at 130-140F it only takes a few hours. An uncovered slow cooker set on "warm" is ideal for this, just make sure there is an adequate amount of water in it. Personally, I leave about 15% PGA in the extract to help thin the high VG juices I mix, it imparts no discernible flavor. When mixing the extract at 20% in a juice I will end up with about 3% total PGA content, just right.
Ive been doing 100% PG extractions with great results. Only heat involved is a one hour jar bath in hot water. These sat for two weeks. Using 10 to 15% when making a vapable juice with it
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