Slow Cooker Extraction of Tobacco and Tea

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billherbst

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...could you make a small extraction of green unroasted beans? I'm not even certain if green coffee beans taste like anything at all. Maybe extra-extra-extra lightly roasted beans?

scarf,

I don't have a definitive answer, but I think it likely that green coffee beans wouldn't work well. When brewed, ground green coffee beans produce a very bitter liquid. There's some flavor, but not much, and it's overwhelmed by the bitterness. The flavor that does come through tastes more like tea than coffee.

Way back when, Peets' Coffee in San Francisco began the movement toward darker-roasted beans (via longer and/or hotter roasts, typically called French or Italian roast levels). That's been carried on to this day by Starbucks (sarcastically called Charbucks by coffee geeks). Dark-roasted beans have a sheen, which is the oils being drawn out from the interior onto the surface of the bean. Dark roasting intensifies the essential coffee-ness of the flavor, making it more bold and pungent, but also destroys the delicate nuances of the beans' flavor elements. Everything gets caramelized bluntly into burnt sugar.

Espresso aficionados don't roast dark. We roast our green beans to a medium-brown color with no visible oil (called City or City+). Doing so preserves the subtle flavors of fruits and flowers that are imparted by the soils where each coffee is grown. That's the roast level I used for my first (failed) maceration. I roast to the beginning of what's called "second crack" (first crack occurs midway through the roast and sounds like popcorn popping as the water inside the beans is heated to steam and cracks the bean to escape; second crack sounds like Rice Krispies when the milk is poured onto the cereal; there is no third crack, just charred bean death).

I roast in 12-ounce batches, so I could conceivably roast a batch even lighter (called a Cinnamon roast), but I'm inclined to think that the heat applied during the maceration is more likely the problem than initial roast level before grinding. I could try the microwave method followed by a long cold maceration, but I'm dubious about that. My two-day cook didn't have deep, rich flavor, so I'm doubtful that a short burst of heat would do the trick.

I'm not convinced that heat is the problem, although it certainly could be. I wonder if the espresso grind I used might have been too fine. For instance, French Press extraction uses very coarsely-ground beans. I'll try a coarser grind for my next maceration, and Central American rather than Ethiopian beans.

Freshness could have been an issue with your batch, but not mine. I used coffee that was seven days past roast and ground literally a moment before adding PG/VG. My extract doesn't taste stale, just a bit weak and metallic, rather than the rich and deep coffee flavor I was hoping for.

Our liquid might be a culprit also. Coffee for drinking is extracted into water. We extract into PG or PG/VG. I wonder if the aqueous carrier might involved in producing the metallic flavor I got. Maybe I'll try two extractions next, one all-PG and the other all-VG.

Finally, a very different option would instant coffee (presumably high-quality, if such a thing exists), either alone or mixed with with freshly ground roasted beans. As much as I hate to admit it, instant freeze-dried coffee might be the easiest and best solution. I probably won't try that, though, because I don't have any instant coffee, and the thought of buying some makes my spinal cord shrivel up.
 

aldur

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I have been following this and am awed. I tinker with tfa flavorings, and while some I like after three days steep I find myself always noting a chemical tang.


Everyone here might have just opened my eyes to at least the cold variation. Having grandsons and cats I'd rather not leave anything to chance.

I use 1.7 Single Coil Cartos so I would probably have to filter another three times you think?

Kinda wish I at least knew what a net was like, I've never tried any. Lol, guess it's time to go a-hunting.
 

billherbst

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Ooh, excited to hear about your new experiments. I'm going to look for some good tobacco in Sydney this weekend.

scarf,

Here are the one-ounce sample pipe tobaccos I ordered from Milan Tobacconists:

Black Forest (Aromatic) Pipe Tobacco
aged Maduro, black and toasted Cavendish; vanilla, caramel, and butternut

Buttered Rum (Aromatic) Pipe Tobacco
Golden Virginia, White Burley; buttered New England and Jamaican rums

Lucky 7 (Aromatic) Pipe Tobacco
Fire-cured Cavendish, black Cavendish, Green River Burleys; wood, spice, vanilla, and a hint of sweetness.

Sunset Rum (Aromatic) Pipe Tobacco
Virginia, Burleys, and a modest amount of black Cavendish; aged in rum

Jefferson Street (Non-Aromatic) Pipe Tobacco
Sliced Burley, Turkish, Cavendish tobaccos; nuts and rum raisin; moderately sweet

Chartwell (English) Pipe Tobacco
Latakia, Turkish, sliced Burley, and a hint of plum

Sultan's Blend (English) Pipe Tobacco
Cube and coarse cut Burleys, Turkish, Bright Virginia Ribbon, toasted Cavendish, long cut Latakia, a touch of Perique, and a pinch of black Cavendish; toasty flavor with nut, dark coffee, and hickory


I read a lot of reviews online and passed on some tobacco vendors before ordering from Milan, which got a fair amount of praise from pipe smokers, but who knows if these are any good or not, especially for our purposes? I don't imagine that there's a straight 100% correlation between how great a pipe tobacco blend might be when smoked versus how good it is as a vaping extract. Guess I'll find out.
 

billherbst

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Kinda wish I at least knew what a net was like, I've never tried any. Lol, guess it's time to go a-hunting.

aldur,

My first thought was to reply that you're in for a treat if all you've vaped is synthetic tobaccos, but maybe I should wait on that. NETs---like all other juice categories---are all over the map.

For instance, if your first NET is Devil Dog from Ahlusion, you may be in for one of biggest shocks you've ever experienced in vaping. DD is definitely not for the faint of heart.

On the other hand, certain hybrid blends might not be all that different from what you're accustomed to.

GoodEJuice would be a suitable place to start, either from their All-Natural or Flavor-Infused lines of in-house NETs:

link: GeJ House-Brewed (NET) liquids
 

Dammage

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A thought / question
If extracting from coffee beans does the juice contain caffeine? If so does that transfer into the vapor? Can you get a caffeine buzz with your nicotine buzz in the same vapor?

Sorry for the oddity of this post 12pm after a 10hr shift is not the time to express oneself.
The main question is does anyone know if caffeine will vaporize in juice? Idea is a coffee flavor that has a dose of nic and a small dose of caffeine. A 5 minute vape to get that smoke brake and coffee brake all in one.
 

johni

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Started my first three tobaccos tonight. A Balkan blend, Virginia and Burlley blend, and a black Cavendish. All have a substantial odor in the bag, particularly the black Cav. Three more tobaccos on hand to follow right behind.

No real problems getting started, just a little friction over using the crock pot.:unsure:
 
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LongDraw

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Finished extracting my Sam's Flake, made up 2 small 4 ml samples, a 10% and 15%. I dripped both right away and a good flavor, excited to see what they are like after a days steep.

At this time I have 75mls of the cherry cavendish concentrate and maybe 85 mls of the sam's flake concentrate. Tonight will be the second cook for the chocolate flake.

I have a tank ready and waiting of the cherry cavendish for tomorrow to vape. Oddly, excited to see what the coils look like after about 4mls.

I think, maybe, I will grid up some coffee tonight, doing a courser based on what bill was saying, and do short heat, maybe 30 mins in the crock pot for a few times, see how that goes.

I am starting to look on pipesandcigars some more to see what else I would like to order. There is a borkum riff orange honey that caught my eye. There are just SO MANY tobaccos and brands to choose from makes it really hard, haha. Also, want to pick up a pack of american spirits i believes, I think those are the ones bill mentioned, and extract a pack to see how the flavor is.
 

LongDraw

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Let me knwo how the black cavendish is, saw that mentioned in another thread and it peaked by interest.

LOL, not sure why the friction but if you need to get a separate crock pot for extracting I found ones at target with high/low setting for 12 dollars. Perfectly hold one wide mouth mason jar, I believe it is 16 oz jars. I can only do one extract at a time but it gives me time to filter and then find the right percentage while the other one is in the crock pot.

Started my first three tobaccos tonight. A Balkan blend, Virginia and Burlley blend, and a black Cavendish. All have a substantial odor in the bag, particularly the black Cav. Three more tobaccos on hand to follow right behind.

No real problems getting started, just a little friction using the crock pot.:unsure:
 

johni

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Bill you got some very interesting blends! Hope they turn out as good as they look on paper.

LongDraw, if my black Cavendish turns out as flavorful as it smells, it will be the stoutest Cavendish vape I have tried! It was described as a bit exotic and smelled very strong. We'll see. I'm thinking I'll owe the boss a new crock pot soon!
 

TBinAZ

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Bill, Scarf,

I know this is cheating, but check this out. Wonder how this would mix? Available at Trader Joe's in the states.

Coffee.jpg
 

billherbst

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Bill, Scarf,

I know this is cheating, but check this out. Wonder how this would mix? Available at Trader Joe's in the states.

TB,

Cheating? Nah, all's fair in love and extracts, as long as it's not made with artificial flavors or chemicals in some lab. (This is not to suggest that I never vape juices made with synthetic flavorings. I do, but I don't wish to make any of synthetic flavorings myself...)

I've made cold-brew coffee extract before (a long time ago, way back in the 1970s). Mine---and Trader Joe's also---was/is made with 100% filtered water. You might get by with a 10% mix in an all-VG base, but much more extract than that would seem to me to be less than ideal.

Perhaps someone near a trader joe's will try it and let us know. Or maybe I'll try making some cold-brew coffee extract myself. Couldn't hurt to give it a try. I'm thinking I might try a cold extract coffee using 50% distilled water and 50% PG. In fact, why not make up a batch of that right now and put it in the fridge? Okay, I will.

I've also got three batches of the Milan pipe tobacco underway in their first 6-hour slow cook. Each is 15mls of tobacco in 150mls of 50/50 PG/VG. Milan sent 30 grams of each of the six tobaccos, so I have enough for two batches of each one (twice what I'll need, since a single batch yields about 125mls of extract---enough to make more than half a liter of juice). Hmmm. I wonder if anyone on the thread would like to share the cost with me and get six varieties of pipe tobacco all set to extract? PM me if you're interested.
 

TBinAZ

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I'd be all over a group buy.

Hmmm, I'll have to see how close the nearest Trader Joe's is from me. They're definitely not on every corner.

Going to see how my green tea mash turned out. Granted, I used some cheaper leaves this go-round. Smells pretty good though. Want to blend with some peach extract I received the other day.

Oh, I almost forgot to ask, has anyone tried using Stevia to sweeten blends? I've been wondering about that. I like using it with coffee in the morning. Not sure if it has any drawbacks when used in e-liquid.
 

billherbst

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...has anyone tried using Stevia to sweeten blends? I've been wondering about that. I like using it with coffee in the morning. Not sure if it has any drawbacks when used in e-liquid.

Yes, I use liquid Stevia exclusively as a sweetener. In terms of the marketplace, stevia products vary widely in quality and usability. I use Pure Stevia Natural Extract from KAL. All-natural (of course), no bitterness, and not so concentrated in its sweetness that you run the risk of ruining a juice with an extra drop or two.

I like it much better than ethyl maltol or any of the artificial sweeteners (i.e., sucralose).
 

LongDraw

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So I ordered a .45 um syringe filter to try out, should get her mid/late this week.

I would say the cherry cavendish builds up gunk at about medium. I was able to vape 4 mls without notice of change in taste.

I mixed up Sam's Flake, at 13%. Seems the 15% would lose some of the more subtle flavors, though I may just bump my 15% up to 20% just to see what it is like.

I am filtering the chocolate flake now, unfortunately not gonna make it through the first filter tonight. On this one, I can definetly see particulates in the bottom of the first mason jar. Of what I have filtered only once of the chocolate flake there are no particulates at the bottom of the other jar so the coffee filters do pretty good.
 

johni

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Finished filtering my first three tobacco extracts. One ounce of bulk tobacco from Pipes and Cigars, two ounces VG, and 2 to 2 1/4 ounces PG to cover the tobacco. Yielded 85 to 90 mls each after 3 passes through brown coffee filters. Will test in a few days and start my next batch of 3.

After doing a good bit of studying on Pipes and Cigars site and some others, I have found pipe blends that will yield a flavor profile very similar to some of my favorite NETs from juice vendors. A couple I am pretty sure are the same blend the vendor extracts.
 

LongDraw

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So I had mixed up 30 mls of Sam's Flake at 13%. It only steeped for two days and didn't want to wait any longer so I filled up a tank.

I get the slightly spicy taste that Scarf had mentioned. I am really looking forward to this steeped a few more days to see if the flavors stick out a little more. If not, I may make a 15 ml at about 16% or so to see how that turns out. This is a def winner as well.

Also, didn't notice this with the borkim riff, but with the sam's flake I an wondering if I more nicotine came out in my extract. After a few pulls I notice a slight difference. This is a guess, but I am assuming Samuel Gawith is higher quality tobacco so I wonder if more nicotine came out in the extract? I still mix my DIY up to 18 mg so whatever I get from the extracts adds to it.

Really looking forward to the chocolate flake, it is on its 3rd filter now.

Still waiting on the syringe filter. Not a hundred percent on whether I actually need it, the coffee filters do really well, but with so much extract not a bad thing to test to see if I can get it even cleaner without affecting flavor.

Once again, great thread. Amazed at how easy this is compared to the cost of purchasing nets.
 

LongDraw

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Would love to hear the vendor juices and the comparative tobaccos you found.

Finished filtering my first three tobacco extracts. One ounce of bulk tobacco from Pipes and Cigars, two ounces VG, and 2 to 2 1/4 ounces PG to cover the tobacco. Yielded 85 to 90 mls each after 3 passes through brown coffee filters. Will test in a few days and start my next batch of 3.

After doing a good bit of studying on Pipes and Cigars site and some others, I have found pipe blends that will yield a flavor profile very similar to some of my favorite NETs from juice vendors. A couple I am pretty sure are the same blend the vendor extracts.
 

johni

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Would love to hear the vendor juices and the comparative tobaccos you found.

I'm not going to post my hunches until I'm sure they're right. May not later out of respect for the vendors (couple of my favorites). My next batch of three won't include any of them so it will be a while.

What extracts have you done that are rocking your world?
 

LongDraw

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Understandable, but a private message wouldn't let lose the hunch :blush:

I have only extracted 3 so far. Borkim Riff Cherry Cavendish, Samuel Gawith Sam's Flake and Smauel Gawith Chocolate Flake.

So far have only mixed and vaping the cherry cavendish and Sam's flake, both are very good. The chocolate flake is just finishing up its 3 filter, will probably do the 4th tomorrow or thursday.

I have a lot of extract from these, so probably will hold off on buying and extracting more for now. Might do as you, and take a look at some of the nets I enjoyed from vendors to find comparable blends and try those out.

I have found a difference in how my juices are wicking, unless I need to rebuild here soon, I find that I have to open my juice control to my atty more otherwise it doesn't wick as well. Still use a 70pg/30vg blend just like all others I bought or DIY'd.

EDIT: So far I think I give the nod to the Sam's Flake, but that and the cherry have both every different tastes in their own right. After how see these come out after steeping for a bit, may consider going up a little in percentage, not sure yet though.

I'm not going to post my hunches until I'm sure they're right. May not later out of respect for the vendors (couple of my favorites). My next batch of three won't include any of them so it will be a while.

What extracts have you done that are rocking your world?
 
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