Slow Cooker Extraction of Tobacco and Tea

[billherbst]

Update on coffee extracts.

I received my package of four more jars of “high-end” instant freeze-dried coffees: Bustelo Supreme, Pilon Espresso, Ferrara Espresso, and Nescafé Clásico. I’ve done only one extraction so far---with Bustelo---and changing/refining the process as I experiment and learn.

First off, I think these instant coffees need to be extracted mostly without heat, certainly with no “cooking.” The freeze-dried crystals, which are like jagged little boulders, don’t dissolve easily in PG or VG, so a little heat may be helpful, but no long cooking, as I fear it will burn the coffee and degrade the flavor.

With the Bustelo Supreme, I added three teaspoons of crystals to 50mls of 50/50 PG/VG, then heated the jar with the mixture in a water bath just below simmer for about 10 minutes. That dissolved most of the crystals. Next time I’m going to try putting the crystals in a round-bottomed glass, then adding about 10mls of PG that’s been heated in the microwave to very hot (takes only about 15 seconds at full power). I’ll mix that, using the back of the spoon to crush the crystals, to make a thick slurry. Then I’ll add the remaining 40mls of room-temperature PG/VG. Given a day or two of steeping time, all the crystals dissolve completely, or at least it seems so to the naked eye.

I didn’t filter the Bustelo (or the Medaglia d’Oro before it). Time will tell about coil gunking, but I think filtering may be an unnecessary step with instant coffee.

The Bustelo, which has a deep, rich, classic coffee flavor, turned out even better than the Medaglia D’Oro, has a strong espresso taste.

I made a delicious DIY cappuccinno or café blend using 7% Bustelo, 7% Medaglia D’Oro, 7% FlavourArt Cream Fresh, and 2% Nature’s Flavors Bavarian Cream in a 60/40 PG/VG overall base at 18mg nic. This juice---which I labeled as Medaglia Bustelo Café---competes well with the best retail coffee juices I have.

More later.

 

[danwicklund]

What's the best way to extract or infuse no tobacco but natural flavors??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[billherbst]

My tobacco extracts---six so far, three cigarette and three pipe tobaccos---are proving to be about average in their deleterious effects on coils, commonly referred to as "coil-gunking." They're not as clean as Ahlusion NETs, but not as quick to gunk up coils as, say, Want2Vape's Signature Tobaccos. They're also so varied and delicious that I see no point in buying retail NET juices now. I'll still probably want to keep a stock of Ahlusion Blue Grass Burley, MOV Apache, and w2v Louisville in my stash, but these home-brewed NETs have become my go-to daily tobacco vapes, whether mixed alone or as hybrid blends with other flavors. I've got three more pipe tobacco blends in the queue for extractions, and, of course, there's a vast marketplace of tobacco available beyond those.

The same cannot be said, unfortunately, for my coffee extracts. The first of the three---Sidamo Guji, which was made from fresh espresso-ground coffee using my own home-roasted beans---is the best in terms of how clean it is. I'm not thrilled with the flavor, though. My two more recent efforts---Medaglia D'Oro Espresso and Bustelo Coffee, which were made from instant coffee (granules for Medaglia D'Oro and freeze-dried crystals for Bustelo)---have a much more tasty and pleasing flavor profile. Judged on flavor alone, they hold their own against many retail coffee/espresso/cappuccino/café extracts. The problem is that they're coil-killers.

Using a juice blend made with both extracts, a mere three hours of vaping in an EVOD gunked up the coil so badly that vapor production was reduced by 90% and no longer worth the numerous primer puffs necessary to generate enough heat from the coil to make even a halfway decent vape. I took off the base and coil from the EVOD and dry-burned it, which worked, sort of. The blackened gunk on the coil and wick was converted into white ash and the coil glowed red again, but I'd need to soak it overnight in vodka or PGA, then dry-burn again, and that's more hassle and extra work than I want to take on, especially since I have a stock of quite wonderful coffee flavorings already.

As they are now, both those coffee extracts would be fine for the RDA/RBA folks, who think nothing of wrapping a new wick and coil every couple hours, but for most vapers, they'd be a royal pain. Oh, they taste great, but they're not nearly clean enough for prime time. I don't know if they could be filtered more effectively, given their thick viscosity. Perhaps I could dilute them some with additional PG. That might allow further filtering to clean them up, which would still be OK because they're extremely potent now. If I had to mix them at 20% rather than 10%, that'd be fine, as long as they vaporized more cleanly. I'll also try whipping up another batch of extract (I still have two other instant coffees to try---Pilon and NesCafé Clasico), but making them more diluted from the get-go. I'll try both remedies and see how it goes, then report back.

I'm not personally inclined to take on the task of making any natural extracts from tea, fruit, spice, or bakery flavors, but I'd love to hear others' experience with those.

 

[Barbara21]

So do you think filtering might help with the coffee extracts??

I'm planning on trying to make some tobacco and coffee extracts. Went to a nice tobacco shop today and bought four different pipe tobaccos - 'Charlestowne Cavendish' (steamed, cased with vanilla), 'Island Mist' (an assortment of mild tobaccos with some cased mango Cavendish), 'WackyBacky' (various aromatics with toffee and vanilla), and some straight 'Perique'.

I also happen to have some vanilla Starbucks 'Via' (instant coffee). It has some cane sugar in it so it might not work very well but we'll see. Off to play with that right now...wish me luck...

 

[billherbst]

So do you think filtering might help with the coffee extracts??

Maybe. Probably. I don't know.

In their original state (which is to say, all VG), my two recent instant coffee extracts---Medaglia D'Oro espresso and Bustelo coffee---were too thick to be filtered. If they didn't go through my gold mesh filter, they sure as heck wouldn't pass through a typical drip coffee paper filter. I've subsequently diluted both extracts some by adding PG, but I haven't tried filtering them yet since increasing their viscosity.

I continue to vape juices made from both extracts, however, because they're delicious. I just have to dry burn the coils of whatever JDS (juice delivery system---in this case, atties or clearos) I'm using with them somewhat more often than I would with my tobacco extract juices. Actually, the problem is more with the wicks getting gunked up than the coils themselves. The wicks get "clogged" with the juice and don't transfer juice to the coils as efficiently as they should. Juices made with these extracts in their current form would be fine with an RBA/RDA using cotton wicking that could be swapped out frequently.

 

[Barbara21]

This is fun!!

Ok, last night I decided against trying the Starbucks instant ('Via') coffee, mainly because it had sugar in it. So I tried a quick-and-easy microwave extraction of one of the tobaccos I picked up. (Bob's 'WackyBacky' which is supposed to be cased with toffee/vanilla. It's the tobacco's store best-selling pipe tobacco.)

Nothing precise. Maybe a half-inch of tobacco in a teacup and enough PG to make a sludge when stirred. Heated it for eight seconds, stirred, did it again. Then waited twenty minutes and repeated the eight-second-heat, stir, eight-second-heat.

Gave it a few minutes to cool down, then filtered twice through coffee filters. Only ended up with 15mL, then added enough additional base to make 30mL, 15mg, 75/25 liquid. Then let it sit for 24 hours.

I must say - this is mighty tasty stuff.

I am not a 'tobacco' expert but I would say this is a mild, fairly sweet tobacco with a definite 'nutty' tone to it. I'm not getting any 'toffee' or 'vanilla' but that might come with steeping. Personally I wouldn't mind if it stayed just as it is. I've been vaping it all evening.

This evening I decided to be a little more precise. I have four different tobaccos in the crock pot right now. They're all in small canning jars with lids (so no condensate will get in the extract). I put the crock pot on 'high' for one hour (to get it quite warm) and then turned it to 'warm'. (My crock pot has three temperature levels - warm, low, and high.) I'll leave them for twenty-four hours.

I'm also trying to get a strawberry/blueberry extract by using freeze-dried fruits in the crock pot.

Separately I'm trying a coffee extract using Starbuck's 'Via' (instant, micro-ground) coffee ('Pike Place' to be precise). I'll let you know how these all come out.

Edited to add: Bill, my coffee has what looks like oil floating on top, just like what you see on regular coffee. Did you have that and, if so, did you do anything to get rid of it? I'll give it time but if it's still there tomorrow, I'm thinking of maybe laying some paper towel on the surface to hopefully get out the oil (unless you have a better suggestion).

 

[blondeambition3]

I have been experimenting with making my own Natural Extracted Tobacco (NET) and I am pleased to say that I have a winning method. The slow cooker was recommended by someone on the Natural Tobaccos thread whose name escapes me (thank you, whoever you are!)

Here is the method as I posted it on that thread, with my addenda in blue italics.

1 Chop up expensive cigar and place in deep coffee mug. One Churchill-sized cigar, or about 15g of pipe or cigarette tobacco.
2. Cover with PG/VG in your desired amount and mix until you have a nasty-looking sludge. One ounce each of PG and VG is a good amount.
3. Place mug, uncovered, in a slow cooker half-filled with water. Cover slow cooker.
4. Cook on low, overnight.
5. In morning, turn off slow cooker. Allow to sit all day long.
6. Top up the water in slow cooker and repeat steps 4-5 twice more. Your sludge will turn darker and more fragrant.
7. After third cook, place an unbleached coffee filter inside a funnel, and place funnel over a tall cup. Spoon your sludge into the paper-lined funnel and allow to filter.
8. Repeat step 7 two or three more times.
9. Age this concentrate for as long as you want. Two weeks is good.
10. Dilute as desired. Mine was mixed 33% concentrate, 33% VG and 33% 36mg PG unflavored nic. That makes for a liquid that is nominally 12mg plus whatever nic comes from the cigar itself. Judging from the hit, I'd say 15-17mg. Obviously varies with tobacco type.

My first try of this method used a Montecristo cigar. It turned out amazingly well: rich strong smoky cigar flavor. I just finished a batch of Borkum Riff Vanilla Cavendish pipe tobacco and that is also yummy. Currently on the boil: Alexander's chocolate RYO tobacco. Next up: Alexander's Nougat Pipe and a Ramon Allones Celestial cigar.

I am also using the same method for tea. Because tea leaves expand so much with moisture, you need to use a lot more liquid, otherwise filtering it is going to be a beast. Good results with both oolong and green teas.

Next experiment: ginger, and coffee. Will keep people posted if you are interested.

Wow... Thanks for the info... gonna try it

 

[billherbst]

Yesterday I ordered from eBay five 60ml syringes and twenty syringe lab filters (25mm disks, with filtering down to 2.2 microns). Each filter is supposed to be good for about 100ml of liquid, but I imagine that varies widely, depending on how much particulate matter is in the liquid suspension being filtered.

I intend to try this filtering method on some or all of my existing extracts to see if coil-gunking can be reduced further. I'll conduct the experiment understanding ahead of time that, while removal of larger particulates may have some palliative effect in making the juices vaporize more cleanly, particulates are not the only cause of of gunking. Dissolved sugars also account for a considerable amount of carbonization (caramelization) on the coils, and these cannot be removed by any filtering method I know of.

What I've read so far in this thread and others on ECF suggests that more complete filtering of NETs doesn't remove much flavor. Apparently the flavor elements of the tobacco/tea/coffee/fruit are mostly dissolved in the extract, and the particulates that remain are essentially flavorless cellulose. Guess I'll find out, though.

My main hope is that these new filters might improve the performance of my instant coffee extracts, which taste great but tend to degrade performance of coils quicker than I'd like. Any improvement in cleaner vaporizing of my tobacco extracts would be a bonus.

-----

Over the past two weeks, I've also ordered a bunch of inexpensive Chinese-clone RDAs (rebuildable dripping atomizers) from FastTech. On Saturday I received the first package of three (YK1 KTS mini-atomizers, $5.33 each shipped) and immediately converted them from dripping to bottom-fed atomizers. I used a micro-bit (.035") and dremel to drill out a juice channel through the silicon insulator surrounding the positive post inside the 510 connector. That modification turned out to be much easier than I had feared it might be, and quite effective. Took about ten minutes for all three atomizers. The juice channel is very small, but more than adequate for squonking. The channel left the insulator intact around the positive pin, with no danger of an electrical short. It's so great when experiments work out!

Those bottom-fed-modded mini-atomizers are now installed on three of my bottom-feeders. I'll have the option to wind micro-coils with cotton wicks for them. (I've had an Igo-L RDA for awhile, so I'm gradually moving past the novice stage with recoiling/rewicking.) This should also mean that gunked-up wicks can be easily and quickly replaced with a minimum of hassle, but time will tell on that, of course.

 

[LongDraw]

Hey Bill,

I had tried the syringe filter on the extract and then made up some juice, after steeping it seemed "flat", so I didn't really go any farther with it myself. I maybe should have given it a little more of a chance, or just increased the flavoring concentrate, but decided the juices weren't "coil killers" compared to some commercial net juices I had bought in the past.

Good luck, interested to hear your results.

 

[Chinook]

Bill, how much were these filters? Are they similar to the ones in Amazon except the size ( Syringe Filter, PVDF, 25mm diameter, 0.2um)? They're about $19 for 10 filters with shipping at Amazon.

Please let us know how these filters work. I'm also thinking about filtering the NET juices I buy. Eventually, I'll start DIY NETs too I think.

My personal view is that if the flavor of the NET juice changes after filtering, then actual small tobacco leaf pieces were being burned on the coils. Which in a way is basically smoking a small fraction of the liquid.

Thanks.

 

[billherbst]

Bill, how much were these filters? Are they similar to the ones in Amazon except the size ( Syringe Filter, PVDF, 25mm diameter, 0.2um)? They're about $19 for 10 filters with shipping at Amazon.

Please let us know how these filters work. I'm also thinking about filtering the NET juices I buy. Eventually, I'll start DIY NETs too I think.

My personal view is that if the flavor of the NET juice changes after filtering, then actual small tobacco leaf pieces were being burned on the coils. Which in a way is basically smoking a small fraction of the liquid.

Thanks.

Five 60ml syringes were $6.99 shipped, and 20 syringe filters were $13.99 shipped.

Lab testing of NETs by Ahlusion and House of Liquids has come up with zero carcinogens, but I'm still not 100% convinced that NETs are totally harmless for the lungs, especially in the long run. I'm not suggesting that NETs are harmful, I just can't affirm with absolute certainty that they're not. If further research on NETs reveals something amiss, I'll be unhappy, because natural tobacco extracts make the most flavorful tobacco juices ever. Synthetic, lab-based tobacco flavorings can't hold a candle to NETs in terms of authenticity and satisfaction. I continue to enjoy some synthetic tobacco flavorings/juices, but I'd hate to have to go back to only synthetics.

 

[Chinook]

Bill thanks! Those prices are very good.

I too think these juices are not completely harmless but most likely better than smoking. Besides the juices, also stuff that comes out from the wicks, tanks etc.. probably is not 100% healthy either. Well time will tell... I wish there were more independent studies out there about vaping.

By the way, I might knock on your door regarding DIY NETS in a while.

 

[billherbst]

Bill thanks! Those prices are very good.

I too think these juices are not completely harmless but most likely better than smoking. Besides the juices, also stuff that comes out from the wicks, tanks etc.. probably is not 100% healthy either. Well time will tell... I wish there were more independent studies out there about vaping.

By the way, I might knock on your door regarding DIY NETS in a while.

Chinook,

If the good Lord's willin' and the creek don't rise (or the Juan de Fuco and San Andreas faults slip and send a hundred-foot tsunami in my direction), I'll be here.

 

[Chinook]

Thanks bill! If the faults slip, I might not need to do DIY NETs either !

 

[Chuck2]

Wow, just finished the thread and I must say this is a great deal of research through trial and error. I can't wait to get started on some nets myself.

I'm thinking about baking or broiling some American Spirit cigarette tobacco to get a more smokey taste. I don't know if that's necessary but I like the smokey taste more than the flavor of natural tobacco.

Going to do some net coffee too.

I have an issue with PG. I can tolerate a certain amount but it doesn't take much to overwhelm me. So, what I'll have to try is reduced PG in my nets.

I got a slow cooker at the thrift store last week for $10. It has five settings. This could be very handy.

 

[billherbst]

Wow, just finished the thread and I must say this is a great deal of research through trial and error. I can't wait to get started on some nets myself.

I'm thinking about baking or broiling some American Spirit cigarette tobacco to get a more smokey taste. I don't know if that's necessary but I like the smokey taste more than the flavor of natural tobacco.

Going to do some net coffee too.

I have an issue with PG. I can tolerate a certain amount but it doesn't take much to overwhelm me. So, what I'll have to try is reduced PG in my nets.

I got a slow cooker at the thrift store last week for $10. It has five settings. This could be very handy.

Chuck,

Yeah, we're fearless mad scientists on this thread. Or maybe we're closer to the vaping equivalent of Julia Child, who made French cooking more accessible to the masses back in the 1960s. NETs as Coq au Vin.

I'll be interested to hear from you if roasting or broiling tobacco imparts smokiness. Even if doing so yields only a somewhat more "toasted" flavor, it might still be worth the time and effort.

"Traditional wisdom" in vaping (if we can even use that term for such a young endeavor) holds that VG is not as good a flavor carrier as PG, but I've read posts claiming the opposite. Except for the natural sweetness of VG compared to the relative neutrality of PG, I haven't noticed much difference in flavor. I'm developing a strong fondness for VG in my extracts and juices, although the thicker viscosity can be a problem in filtering. Maybe an extract base of 95% VG and 5% alcohol (PGA or even Vodka) would take care of that. Distilled water is often added to VG when used as a base for juices, but I prefer to keep water out of my extracts. I don't know, maybe that's just an uninformed bias.

Congrats on the slow cooker find. I don't have one---a big water-filled pot on low heat works perfectly well to accelerate the extraction process for jars of macerated suspensions. That said, I imagine that a slow cooker would be a nice appliance to have for our purposes (and maybe for cooking dinner, LOL).

 

[Chuck2]

I would have been fine with a double boiler setup or just a pan on the stove in some hot water. They all work, probably equally as well. I have to say that maybe I could have roasted the tobacco a little more but I was getting worried that it was beginning to smoke too much. I am also doing a batch control with unroasted "raw" tobacco at the same time.

 

[Chuck2]

Here's how I worked out this method from the informed decisions in this thread and my own personal tastes. I am also trying a side experiment with coffee.

Step 1: Acquire tobacco. Perique has been mentioned so I got some of that. The guy at the tobacco store was happy to see me again and was very happy that vaping is working out for me. I used to buy my cigs there.



Step 2: Weigh out 2 batches of tobacco, one will be broiled the other, raw. Each is 15g.



Step 3: Broil tobacco for 5 minutes, I also thought of browning in a ceramic pan.



Step 4: Grind tobacco in the coffee grinder for 5 seconds.



Step 5: Label tobacco and put in the slow cooker.



I don't know what temp my oven broils at. I put it on foil on a cookie sheet and set the shelf in the middle position in the oven. We shall see how this goes. Since I work from home I can keep heat on the product for as long as I want as long as I check the water level every now and then.

The kitchen smells awesome right now.

 

[Chuck2]

And here's what I got goin' right now. I think I'll head over to the dollar store later and see if I can get me some plastic wine glasses for straining.

 

[billherbst]

Looks great, Chuck!

Part of what I love about this thread, as well as the whole endeavor of homemade macerated NETs, is that you can go from complete beginner/noob/novice to recognized expert/respected authority in about ten minutes (or, more literally, after one good batch of extract). LOL.

It never even occurred to me to grind my tobacco. All six extracts I've done---three from cigarettes and three from pipe tobaccos---seemed adequately chopped to me right out of the package. I wonder if "ground" tobacco will produce a more intensely flavored extract (a good thing) or make filtering more difficult due to the smaller particle size and greater percentage of "powder" (not such a good thing). Since this is your first cook, you won't have any other experience against which to compare and contrast, of course, so I'll just wish you well.

The batch of extract I made two months ago from a pack of American Spirit Organic cigs is deeeeelicious.