I did a 24 hour heat extraction of White Ox RYO tobacco and bottled it this afternoon. Even without steeping, it is quite impressive, extraordinary good RYO tobacco flavor. In Australia, this tobacco was government issue for prisoners, and also available retail. It has a reputation for being cheap and very strong, near unsmokeable by the average smoker, due to the strength. However, more than a few ex-prisoners continued to smoke it after they got out because they felt it was the best quality tobacco available. So I took a gamble, I was thinking "it will turn out either really good or really bad". It looks like its going to pay off well. It's beautiful to vape. I don't how to describe tobacco flavors but to me its gold. It used to be made by Douwe Egberts but the rights got sold to Imperial Tobacco some years ago. Its a quite dark tobacco, I can take a pic if requested.
Slow Cooker Extraction of Tobacco and Tea
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I was actually thinking about doing one with the chai tea i have as well as tobacco.
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I did a tea (Oolong green tea) for my wife and it turned out well. I didn't do it any different to tobacco, it was a cold extraction since I didn't have a slow cooker or hotplate.
Update on recent slow cooker method tobacco extractions.
After just 10 days steeping the Samuel Gawith Full Virginia Flake and Navy Flake are wonderful, the extract is very strong and mixing the extract 1:5 with PG/VG base is way too strong. The McClellands Vanilla Black Cavendish has a fake sort of vanilla taste in the vape at this early stage, I will let it steep longer and see what happens. The McClellands Dark Star is very promising and my wife loves it already, I am letting it steep longer before I make any more observations. The White Ox RYO tobacco seems like a cross between a RYO tobacco and a pipe tobacco, it is the most earthy woody vape I have tasted, like some sort of medieval forest, with a hint of berries sometimes, really nice, and the strongest by far of all the extracts I have made (which is not many at all - maybe a dozen or so). I am finding that using too much extract in the mix actually clouds the "real" flavor and makes it taste worse.
The cigar extracts - I have used some cuban cigar tips from a cigar smoker (the tips that are cut off before lighting the cigar). This has turned out to be mellow in comparison to the pipe tobaccos but is a nice relaxing warm vape and I will be making a lot more. It is also good as a gentle tobacco base to which pipe tobacco extract can be added in small amounts to create something flavorful that is not so in-your-face so to speak. Anyway, early days for me, just thought I'd share some early experiences.
Update on recent slow cooker method tobacco extractions.
After just 10 days steeping the Samuel Gawith Full Virginia Flake and Navy Flake are wonderful, the extract is very strong and mixing the extract 1:5 with PG/VG base is way too strong. The McClellands Vanilla Black Cavendish has a fake sort of vanilla taste in the vape at this early stage, I will let it steep longer and see what happens. The McClellands Dark Star is very promising and my wife loves it already, I am letting it steep longer before I make any more observations. The White Ox RYO tobacco seems like a cross between a RYO tobacco and a pipe tobacco, it is the most earthy woody vape I have tasted, like some sort of medieval forest, with a hint of berries sometimes, really nice, and the strongest by far of all the extracts I have made (which is not many at all - maybe a dozen or so). I am finding that using too much extract in the mix actually clouds the "real" flavor and makes it taste worse.
The cigar extracts - I have used some cuban cigar tips from a cigar smoker (the tips that are cut off before lighting the cigar). This has turned out to be mellow in comparison to the pipe tobaccos but is a nice relaxing warm vape and I will be making a lot more. It is also good as a gentle tobacco base to which pipe tobacco extract can be added in small amounts to create something flavorful that is not so in-your-face so to speak. Anyway, early days for me, just thought I'd share some early experiences.
Ian,
Your post echoes my experience. With DIY flavorings in general, and NETs specifically, more is not always better. Using too much flavoring is a common mistake of new DIYers. I agree that too much extract in a mix muddies the flavor. And yes, cigar extracts seem to be less flavorful than other types of tobacco extractions---pipe tobacco blends certainly, but also specialty cigarette/RYO tobaccos, and even single-leaf varietals.
I mix most of my pipe blend extracts at 13%. Cigar extracts get a higher percentage---20-25%. Steeping is a wild-card factor, of course, since time often changes the flavor profile and brings out more flavor from the juice, so even those percentages may be cut back eventually (by adding more base PG/VG and liquid nic, thus reducing the relative amount of extract).
Very interesting posts...I've thought of attempting to net and this forum is rich in information...keep up the posts and I'll be reading in the background. Time for me to give this a try, should have done so years ago. Vape-on Tinnman
Can I get some recommendations on cigars or tobaccos before I buy at the store?
Things I should look for... Things I should not look for? Which ones are more safe with less additives?
I make my own juice so I can add the side flavoring if that would help.
I really never got into cigars but only smoked marlb lights.
Thanks!
Things I should look for... Things I should not look for? Which ones are more safe with less additives?
I make my own juice so I can add the side flavoring if that would help.
I really never got into cigars but only smoked marlb lights.
Thanks!
Go for quality, not quantity. If you want a cigarette vape, get a quality Virginia blend or RYO tobacco. Basically what you put in is what you get out. The extractions I've done seem to reflect that, in my very limited experience.
Did an extraction using cavendish/cherry pipe, turned out very fragrant and tasty, added my nic base to bring it up to 18 nic lvl and did a 8 minute ultra sonic bath to help infuse.... it developed a "fishy" smell... anyone have an answer as to why this occured or experienced a fishy smell developing??
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Time to report about my most recent batch of cigar extractions. This batch of macerations spent five days in a warm water bath, with the water temperature strictly monitored to 130° F, then were filtered using my single-pass, dual-stage wire-mesh/5-micron poly felt French Press method:
When I finished the five extracts on June 4th and made up small-bottle samples of DIY liquid from each extract, I was initially a bit disappointed. Compared to my first batch of five cigars, which had spent three days in a warm water bath, but at higher water temps (140°-170°), this second batch seemed sort of tame at first vape. The new juices had nice flavor, but it was milder, and the juices didn't provide nearly as much cigar whomp as the first batch.
Now, ten days later, those juices have had a little steeping time, and---man, oh man---what a difference! Real cigar impact has showed up in spades---now the five new juices proudly announce their heritage as CIGARS. In addition, the flavors are deepening wonderfully, with the individual character of each cigar becoming stronger and more distinct. Looks like the longer steep duration at a lower temperature worked very well for these macerations. And the 5-micron French Press filtering has insured nearly squeaky-clean performance.
Since we're all so new at tobacco extractions, relatively speaking---I've been at this for 15 months now, with 36 extractions under my belt so far---conclusions we draw about all the various aspects of maceration and filtering are still tentative and largely anecdotal at best. That doesn't stop us from coming up with generalizations based on our experience, of course. LOL. So far, it seems to me that cigar macerations, at least the way I do them, tend to produce extracts that provide cleaner performance. Pipe tobaccos appear to be inherently gunkier in their effects on coils/wicks.
I've read some posts on this or the other home-extraction threads suggesting that "casings"---flavorings that are sprayed onto the tobacco leaves or otherwise added in liquid form before or during curing---are responsible for some of the gunking, since the sugars in the infused flavorings may burn or caramelize during atomization. That makes sense, but in my tobacco research I've also read that, with precious few exceptions (such as specialty organic tobacco sold by the leaf), almost all tobacco is cased, and that it's not a question of whether a given tobacco is cased, but rather with what and how much. So, I'd speculate that most pipe tobaccos may be more heavily-cased than cigars.
Also, I imagine that how the cured tobacco is processed contributes to gunking proclivity. Cigars tend to use whole leaves compared to pipe and RYO tobaccos, which are usually cut into various styles---flake or broken flake, curly, plug, ribbon, rope, and shag. Seems to me that chopping the leaves during processing would naturally increase the disintegration of particulates into the solvent during maceration, since cells in the leaf that that are on a cut edge seem more likely to lose their integrity and "break off" into the suspension.
For instance, Boomer's careful dissection/unwrapping of cigars may or may not make a difference in terms of flavor absorption---I'm a bit dubious about the effects of "layering" in the maceration---but I think his process could very well lend itself to a cleaner extract liquid. I chop up my cigars, but even so, I still end up with "half-inch leaf squares," which still have more integrity than any pipe blend or RYO tobacco.
But then, I'm still learning about tobacco, with a long way to go, so take my assumptions with a grain of salt.
Carlos Torano Casa Torano
Toranos private house blend cigar; Dominican and Nicaraguan long-fillers wrapped in a golden-brown Ecuadorian-grown Connecticut shade wrapper; extremely complex flavors: subtle spice, creamy sweetness, a peppery earthiness; bold yet soft.
La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero
Dominican longfiller and binder leaves finished in silky Ecuadorian wrappers that shimmer with a dark and oily patina; flavors of wood and coffee bean dominate with sweet notes on a long, spicy finish.
Alec Bradley Tempus
The Habano-seed wrapper hails from a small tobacco field located on the border of Nicaragua and Honduras, capturing the rich, hearty flavors of Honduras. This leaf is dark and leathery, and conceals a complex mixture of Cuban-seed long-fillers grown in both Nicaragua and Honduras. The cigar explodes with rich, but smooth flavors noting toasted wood and nuts. The finish is long and peppery with an enjoyable sweetness.
Brick House Robusto Natural
Specially aged Nicaraguan tobaccos with hearty Havana Subido wrapper leaves, with flavors of White pepper, wood (oak), grass, and spice.
PDR 1878 Cubano Especial Capa Maduro
Brazilian Arapiraca wrapper, Dominincan Criollo binder and a carefully crafted mix of Nicaraguan and Dominican criollo fillers. This medium-bodied selection opens with a hearty, dark maduro wrapper that will warm you to the core. Earthy flavors with just a hint of sweetness.
Toranos private house blend cigar; Dominican and Nicaraguan long-fillers wrapped in a golden-brown Ecuadorian-grown Connecticut shade wrapper; extremely complex flavors: subtle spice, creamy sweetness, a peppery earthiness; bold yet soft.
La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero
Dominican longfiller and binder leaves finished in silky Ecuadorian wrappers that shimmer with a dark and oily patina; flavors of wood and coffee bean dominate with sweet notes on a long, spicy finish.
Alec Bradley Tempus
The Habano-seed wrapper hails from a small tobacco field located on the border of Nicaragua and Honduras, capturing the rich, hearty flavors of Honduras. This leaf is dark and leathery, and conceals a complex mixture of Cuban-seed long-fillers grown in both Nicaragua and Honduras. The cigar explodes with rich, but smooth flavors noting toasted wood and nuts. The finish is long and peppery with an enjoyable sweetness.
Brick House Robusto Natural
Specially aged Nicaraguan tobaccos with hearty Havana Subido wrapper leaves, with flavors of White pepper, wood (oak), grass, and spice.
PDR 1878 Cubano Especial Capa Maduro
Brazilian Arapiraca wrapper, Dominincan Criollo binder and a carefully crafted mix of Nicaraguan and Dominican criollo fillers. This medium-bodied selection opens with a hearty, dark maduro wrapper that will warm you to the core. Earthy flavors with just a hint of sweetness.
When I finished the five extracts on June 4th and made up small-bottle samples of DIY liquid from each extract, I was initially a bit disappointed. Compared to my first batch of five cigars, which had spent three days in a warm water bath, but at higher water temps (140°-170°), this second batch seemed sort of tame at first vape. The new juices had nice flavor, but it was milder, and the juices didn't provide nearly as much cigar whomp as the first batch.
Now, ten days later, those juices have had a little steeping time, and---man, oh man---what a difference! Real cigar impact has showed up in spades---now the five new juices proudly announce their heritage as CIGARS. In addition, the flavors are deepening wonderfully, with the individual character of each cigar becoming stronger and more distinct. Looks like the longer steep duration at a lower temperature worked very well for these macerations. And the 5-micron French Press filtering has insured nearly squeaky-clean performance.
Since we're all so new at tobacco extractions, relatively speaking---I've been at this for 15 months now, with 36 extractions under my belt so far---conclusions we draw about all the various aspects of maceration and filtering are still tentative and largely anecdotal at best. That doesn't stop us from coming up with generalizations based on our experience, of course. LOL. So far, it seems to me that cigar macerations, at least the way I do them, tend to produce extracts that provide cleaner performance. Pipe tobaccos appear to be inherently gunkier in their effects on coils/wicks.
I've read some posts on this or the other home-extraction threads suggesting that "casings"---flavorings that are sprayed onto the tobacco leaves or otherwise added in liquid form before or during curing---are responsible for some of the gunking, since the sugars in the infused flavorings may burn or caramelize during atomization. That makes sense, but in my tobacco research I've also read that, with precious few exceptions (such as specialty organic tobacco sold by the leaf), almost all tobacco is cased, and that it's not a question of whether a given tobacco is cased, but rather with what and how much. So, I'd speculate that most pipe tobaccos may be more heavily-cased than cigars.
Also, I imagine that how the cured tobacco is processed contributes to gunking proclivity. Cigars tend to use whole leaves compared to pipe and RYO tobaccos, which are usually cut into various styles---flake or broken flake, curly, plug, ribbon, rope, and shag. Seems to me that chopping the leaves during processing would naturally increase the disintegration of particulates into the solvent during maceration, since cells in the leaf that that are on a cut edge seem more likely to lose their integrity and "break off" into the suspension.
For instance, Boomer's careful dissection/unwrapping of cigars may or may not make a difference in terms of flavor absorption---I'm a bit dubious about the effects of "layering" in the maceration---but I think his process could very well lend itself to a cleaner extract liquid. I chop up my cigars, but even so, I still end up with "half-inch leaf squares," which still have more integrity than any pipe blend or RYO tobacco.
But then, I'm still learning about tobacco, with a long way to go, so take my assumptions with a grain of salt.
I have my first extraction setup like this:
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm294/regal55/firstNET1_zps63187948.jpg
Steel pot of water on a hot plate. The evaporation rate of the water bath caught me off guard, I have the net jar sitting on some change to keep it off the pots hot bottom. But it evaporated and reached about 60C. Think I should start over, it looks OK. The tobacco isNewminster Superior.
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm294/regal55/firstNET1_zps63187948.jpg
Steel pot of water on a hot plate. The evaporation rate of the water bath caught me off guard, I have the net jar sitting on some change to keep it off the pots hot bottom. But it evaporated and reached about 60C. Think I should start over, it looks OK. The tobacco isNewminster Superior.
might want to consider a crockpot with a "warm" setting... I got mine from WalMart for 19$. btw the warm setting holds at 120-125F with the lid on.
I literally have no room for a crock pot. The little hot plate worked out fine once I got a decent thermometer.
And most important the net turned out great. Now this is without a steep but this Newmister 403 superior is mind bowing. I found a better descrition of what with a google search. Its center is Cavendish warapped with viginia and perique. I don't normally like Virginia so was taken aback when I vaped this, haven't been able to put it down.
This is my first DIY net and it exceeds my expectations. I only warm bathed it for 48 hrs, but it turned out great.
For the steep I'm not sure I want it to change much should I leave the tobacco in or out?
what a thread... you guys have been busy!
going shopping for a crock pot and jars today.
edit: all set.
got a 6.5l slow cooker and a few jars. The only jars I found are not the usual. they're about 250ml to 300ml and 3 of them can sit in the pot easy with the lid on.
So I'm only half way in the thread. Is there any consensus on the method. Open jar, sealed or just covered?
3 cycles of 12h cook/12h cool down?
Also I'd like to start with 25g batches, how much liquid do I need?
These are probably redundancy questions, sorry! promise to catch up.
Got me some Bokrum Riff black cavendish, Captain black royal and Dunhill Early mornig pipe. I'm in.
going shopping for a crock pot and jars today.
edit: all set.
got a 6.5l slow cooker and a few jars. The only jars I found are not the usual. they're about 250ml to 300ml and 3 of them can sit in the pot easy with the lid on.
So I'm only half way in the thread. Is there any consensus on the method. Open jar, sealed or just covered?
3 cycles of 12h cook/12h cool down?
Also I'd like to start with 25g batches, how much liquid do I need?
These are probably redundancy questions, sorry! promise to catch up.
Got me some Bokrum Riff black cavendish, Captain black royal and Dunhill Early mornig pipe. I'm in.
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None of us have the definitive answer. Enjoy your journey.
I typically do my heat extractions straight through. I also typically keep everything covered during the whole process. Mason Jars are awesome and made to take the stresses of heating with contents in them. I do sometimes use a vacuum canning device to pull a vacuum on things. It sometimes helps to speed things along even more.
I get great results, other people are getting great results with different methods. Do what you think will work best for you
Hmmm, putting it in a vacuum. That sounds interesting
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thanks a lot FearTX, I'm definitly enjoying this. "Straight though" meaning 36h straight?
Ok, so I tried to stick to the orginal aunt Scarf receipt and keep the same ratio... 100ml for 25g but I had to go a bit ad hoc and scale it up to 130ml to cover the blends. Hope its not gonna turn out too diluted. Here are some pics.
If you see any obvious mistake please point them out.
Thanks for the help and huge thanks fot this thread scarf-ace...
Ok, so I tried to stick to the orginal aunt Scarf receipt and keep the same ratio... 100ml for 25g but I had to go a bit ad hoc and scale it up to 130ml to cover the blends. Hope its not gonna turn out too diluted. Here are some pics.
If you see any obvious mistake please point them out.
Thanks for the help and huge thanks fot this thread scarf-ace...
Straight through = whatever steep time is constant heat for that time. I leave the lids on and cover the pot so I do not lose too much water that I have to worry about them.
I have also been known to put the jars in my truck for a "Texas Truck Maceration"
Looks like you are well set. There is no "right way" to do these things. Just the way you prefer that works
I have also been known to put the jars in my truck for a "Texas Truck Maceration"
Looks like you are well set. There is no "right way" to do these things. Just the way you prefer that works
Went for the "straight through" 20h crock pot.
From the french press to the coffee filter. I'll try to get some lab filters asap...
the smell is definitely at the rendez-vous.
From the french press to the coffee filter. I'll try to get some lab filters asap...
the smell is definitely at the rendez-vous.
Great pics DSmooch, love it!
There is some confusion for me here, as steep can mean the tobacco steeping in the solvent, or, after the tobacco is removed and you just have a tobacco extract, the tobacco extract can be steeping with added nic/pg/vg. So there are 2 steeps. The first one finishes when the tobacco plant material is seperated from the solvent. The second one begins when nic/pg/vg is added and it will usually be pretty rough for the first couple of weeks, reasonable after a month, and even better after 2 months or more IME.
There is some confusion for me here, as steep can mean the tobacco steeping in the solvent, or, after the tobacco is removed and you just have a tobacco extract, the tobacco extract can be steeping with added nic/pg/vg. So there are 2 steeps. The first one finishes when the tobacco plant material is seperated from the solvent. The second one begins when nic/pg/vg is added and it will usually be pretty rough for the first couple of weeks, reasonable after a month, and even better after 2 months or more IME.
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