- Status
Uh...Eve, King James was my cousin. His mother, Mary Queen of Scots is also a cousin. I am also a direct descendent of William the Conquerer, and King Charlamane. I named my 4-legged baby Sharlamane, since she is a girl. I am from the Scottish Clan of Douglas. Actually it goes back further to the Sandilands. This is on my mothers side. To make a long story longer....
, you and I are related! WOW! I should have known that anyway!!!
, you and I are related! WOW! I should have known that anyway!!!
Uh...Eve, King James was my cousin. His mother, Mary Queen of Scots is also a cousin. I am also a direct descendent of William the Conquerer, and King Charlamane. I named my 4-legged baby Sharlamane, since she is a girl. I am from the Scottish Clan of Douglas. Actually it goes back further to the Sandilands. This is on my mothers side. To make a long story longer....
Oh Wow Saints! I SHOULD have somehow KNOWN this!!!! Oh wow! I don't know how you 'classify' the Royalty on my Mother's side, but I know 'some' of it was called the "House of Plantagenet's"... anyways, I need a lot of help figuring all of this lineage stuff out. When my lineage researcher informed me King James was my Great Grandfather 24X back I was so stoked I couldn't even speak for awhile.. (lol) I 'originally' thought tracing lineage was rather silly and futile.. who cares 'who' your ancestor's were?.. Now, I see differently. Can we share our trees? Mine is located at Ancestry.com... I'd love to share trees with you!
Last edited:
Actually, my 1st cousin and his wife did all of this... painstakingly, I might add. I'll send him an email and see what I can do. This sure makes it an even smaller world. I'm also related, and you too, probably to Robert the Bruce. If you've ever watched Braveheart, I could only sit through it once, he was sort of the traitor to William Wallace. OOPS!
Now on my daddy's side, most records are gone, but since he's Jewish, I figure I belong to one of the 12 Tribes!
WE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!
Christ didn't think so. Christ thought it was also about obedience to God, charity, self sacrifice, forgiveness, understanding, evangelism, etc. In fact, FAR more time is spent talking about those in the New Testament than is spent talking about Jesus as Christ. The divinity of Christ is far more important in terms of eternity, yet almost completely irrelevant in terms of daily living. In terms of daily living, what matters is the teachings of Jesus the man in his HUMAN life.
Islam is a sect of Judaism in the same way that Mormonism is a sect of Christianity. Both started with the same root, and both were turned into something wildly different after a new prophet came out who claimed to have been visited by God and given teachings that were not in keeping with the old teachings. The only meaningful difference between the two in terms of their relationship to their root is that most Muslims deny their root, while most Mormons claim to be the only true Christians.
Mohamed spent half his life among the Jews, learning their religion and traditions. MANY of the Islamic traditions are taken directly from traditional Judaism, like their Halal food, the rules of which are nearly identical to Kosher. Also, those who actually read and follow the Koran have more respect and reverence for Jesus than most Jews. To someone who truly follows Islam, Jesus would be considered a prophet and great teacher. To someone who truly follows Judaism, the only options are to consider Jesus a heretic, or to consider him Christ.
As to the argument that Allah and Yahwe cannot be one in the same, you have to remember that out of 4 Gospels, only 1 makes any emphasis on the Divinity of Christ. Also, at least dozens, and maybe hundreds or thousands of gospels from the time of Christ were destroyed by the very people that assembled the new testament. That doesn't mean he wasn't the son of God, but it DOES mean that many of his own followers didn't think he was.
However, all that is a side discussion. The main point is that you are both engaging in EXACTLY the behavior that makes this whole thing so "sad." They DO, as a religion, have a great deal of respect for Jesus the man, and believe that his teachings have great value for man kind. But, instead of focusing on the common morals and shared beliefs, you focus on cultural differences that have little or nothing to do with religion or faith, and the religious difference which are far fewer than most people are willing to admit.
One of the fundamental values taught by Christ and his disciples was unity, and spreading the word. Rather than ignore the common ground, doesn't it make more sense to use that common ground to build MORE common ground? To help share all of Christ's teachings, rather than obsessively focusing on one narrow aspect of Christianity and vilifying all those who don't subscribe to it?
Last edited:
I used to be "hung up" on all of the denominations. The Lord convicted me when I read 1 Corinthians 12:12-28. We are all part of the same body. We perform different functions. I think that it's clear to us that a person is not a Christian just because they belong to a certain church or denomination, but we have "body members" in all of them. Just because they don't "act" like we do, doesn't mean that they aren't serving their particular function in the body. It is a shame that there is fighting because of it.
I agree with the very first paragraph that you wrote, but you lost me after that, and your last sentence was the nail in the coffin.
The divinity of Jesus is the most important thing to a Christian. It's not just "one narrow aspect of christianity" it's the basis for the whole belief system. I tried to point that out in my previous post, but you're not understanding that I guess.
It IS the most important thing to a christian, it's the biggest thing to a christian, and it's the very foundation of the christian religion. Without it, we would not be christians, we would be jews.
I agree that Jesus taught that we should love our neighbors, and strive to do good, but He did not say that we were the same as everyone else, in fact He taught the complete opposite of that. He set us apart, He said our beliefs would cause the world to hate us, He said that He came to bring a sword and divide believers from unbelievers. He talks about the sheep and the goats many times, the wheat and the chaff. One will be taken and the other one left.
These are very clear teachings, from Jesus Himself. Make no mistake about it, we are not all the same, we are very different in God's eyes.
I can't sit here and honestly say that all religions of the world worship the same God, when they are all doing something completely different. And some religions don't even try to worship God, they still worship Idols (statues), like Hindus.
So, I don't see the common thread like you do. I see humanity divided into many groups, and they are all far apart as far as religion goes.
I respectfully wish you were correct in this assumption here, because it is a good and valid 'assumption' but unfortunately, this is not the case. I've read the Koran, was married to a Suni Muslim Arab and Christianity being the 'infidel' and the 'enemy' is the central focus and target of fundamentalist Islam... sorry. I'd love nothing more than celebrate the common ground of the person of Jesus with them but Jesus was just a neat prophet and nothing more... in the Koran it states when Christ returns it will be to help 'slay' the remaining Jews in Israel... so this is NOT a commonality I can celebrate nor share with mainstream practicing Islam.
I wish it were as 'simple' as some people would like to believe, but it just isn't. I do my part by praying God change the 'minds' of the Islamic people, draw them back unto Himself... open their blind eyes and hardened Hearts... allow them to see the 'Love' that surrounds them and to return their Hearts back to their Jewish half brother Issaic. I do not 'hate' the Muslim people... I love & pray for them, I have even 'witnessed' openly to them when I was in Lebanon but not one of them received the message of Christ, so I smiled at them and went my way in peace, praying for them all the while. We can not 'dilute' the true message of Christ that "HE is the only way the Truth and the Life, and that no Man comes to the Father but by Him". If it didn't 'matter' what we believed Christ would never have had to die on that cross.
Last edited:
This is a truth! Christ drew 'lines in the sand' at times, at times we do too. That doesn't mean to those who oppose us (Christians) that we hate those people who do not agree with us, or that we wish them dead or to cause them harm... we just want to see them brought to salvation through Christ so they can reign in Heaven with us for all eternity.. that's all.
Lisa,
I agree with you. There is no common thread that I see either. You are either Christian or you're not. You are either Muslim, or you are not. You are either Jewish or you are not. I do not see anything common with being a Christian and being anything else.
There was a post about Political Correctness, this has killed our country. We have allowed 14% of the population, who do not believe in God in any way, to remove God from the American culture. Kids now can't say the Pledge of Allegiance in schools because it contains the word "God" in it. No where do the words "Separation of Church and State" appear in our constitution...NO WHERE. This was a statement made by Thomas Jefferson and then put in a ruling from the Supreme Court.
The entire reason I ALWAYS put the words "In God We Trust" after all my posts on all boards I belong to, all of my email, snail mail and anything else is because ONE person complained about a poster in the Post Office and wrote a letter that it was offensive to this individual. The Post Offices around the country were ordered to remove the poster. The poster said "God Bless Our Troops." I started my campaign of anger about this 18 months ago, it is my way of protesting the Politically Correct Policies of our country.
So, You are either a Christian or not and you are either politically correct when it comes to God or you are not. There is NO wiggle room, none.
Kelly,
In God We Trust
I agree with you. There is no common thread that I see either. You are either Christian or you're not. You are either Muslim, or you are not. You are either Jewish or you are not. I do not see anything common with being a Christian and being anything else.
There was a post about Political Correctness, this has killed our country. We have allowed 14% of the population, who do not believe in God in any way, to remove God from the American culture. Kids now can't say the Pledge of Allegiance in schools because it contains the word "God" in it. No where do the words "Separation of Church and State" appear in our constitution...NO WHERE. This was a statement made by Thomas Jefferson and then put in a ruling from the Supreme Court.
The entire reason I ALWAYS put the words "In God We Trust" after all my posts on all boards I belong to, all of my email, snail mail and anything else is because ONE person complained about a poster in the Post Office and wrote a letter that it was offensive to this individual. The Post Offices around the country were ordered to remove the poster. The poster said "God Bless Our Troops." I started my campaign of anger about this 18 months ago, it is my way of protesting the Politically Correct Policies of our country.
So, You are either a Christian or not and you are either politically correct when it comes to God or you are not. There is NO wiggle room, none.
Kelly,
In God We Trust
Yes Kelly! Amen! I am happily very politically incorrect when it comes to the GOD we serve!
Political correctness has nothing to do with it. I'm perfectly happy to say that men and women are different, that our backgrounds affect our views, that racism is racism regardless of the race of the person being racist and a million other things that are thoroughly politically incorrect.
I'm not so okay with throwing all logic, reason, humility and human charity out the window.
Let's just look at this logically. What are the options here??
A. Everyone is talking to the same God, but some religions got more right than others.
B. Everyone is talking to the same God, but some religions got twisted by "prophets" who had their own agenda.
C. There are in fact, many gods, and people really are talking to different gods.
D. Every religion on the planet, except for Christianity, is complete fiction. Even religions that have just as much, or almost as much history and religious texts that have had LESS revision than the bible. All fiction.
E. All other religions are 100% the work of Satan, and exist only to attack Christianity.
Having been a Christian for most of my life, having read the religious texts of many other religions, and having made friends with people of many other religions; I refuse to believe that C, D or E account for any meaningful percentage of the world's faithful. At the end of the day, all religions including Christianity are run my mortal men. Their texts, their rules, and their rituals are all written down by mortal men. Sometimes those men get things wrong. Sometimes those men are affected by other influences and get things wrong on purpose. Far too often, even in Christianity, regular folks read texts and get things wrong even when the texts are right. Hence the fractured nature of our shared faith.
Wars have been waged by Christianity against those of other religions because of an insistence in seeing the world as black and white. You say that to a Muslim, all Christians are infidels. Has it occurred to you that your attitudes are identical?
There is no common thread that I see either.
There is NO wiggle room, none.
You are either a Christian or not
These are the very ideals of Islam that you so loudly decry.
OBVIOUSLY, Christians and Muslim are quite different, as are Jews, Hindus, Harri-Krishnas, and every other religion. That does not change their commonalities. You have the right to focus on those differences. You do, and I respect that. I'm simply suggesting that by focusing on the differences you not only fail to do any good, but lose the opportunity to do good.
Virtually every religion on the planet teaches certain things. Kindness, forgiveness, charity, the importance of prayer, respect for God. You can focus on the differences and be ignored by anyone who doesn't already agree with you, or you can embrace followers of other faiths with open arms and Christ-like understanding. You can look down on them while making lip service prayers for their conversion, or you can befriend them and show them through the example of your own life how much better Christianity can be. "Your religion is wrong," is the worst evangelical platform in the world.
*I realize that my comment about lip service prayers will rub a lot of folks the wrong way, and I hate saying something that will come off like trolling, but it's an important message. God helps those who help themselves. Praying for the conversion of someone you won't make a useful attempt to convert is lip service. It's like praying for riches. Rather than pray for their conversion, why not pray like Solomon for the wisdom to find the right way to help them?
I Kings, 3:9-11 - Give therefore they servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad; for who is able to judge this thy so great a people? And the speech pleased the LORD, that Solomon had asked this thing. And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor has asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment; Behold, I have done according to they words; lo, I have given thee a wise and and understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
I'm not so okay with throwing all logic, reason, humility and human charity out the window.
Let's just look at this logically. What are the options here??
A. Everyone is talking to the same God, but some religions got more right than others.
B. Everyone is talking to the same God, but some religions got twisted by "prophets" who had their own agenda.
C. There are in fact, many gods, and people really are talking to different gods.
D. Every religion on the planet, except for Christianity, is complete fiction. Even religions that have just as much, or almost as much history and religious texts that have had LESS revision than the bible. All fiction.
E. All other religions are 100% the work of Satan, and exist only to attack Christianity.
Having been a Christian for most of my life, having read the religious texts of many other religions, and having made friends with people of many other religions; I refuse to believe that C, D or E account for any meaningful percentage of the world's faithful. At the end of the day, all religions including Christianity are run my mortal men. Their texts, their rules, and their rituals are all written down by mortal men. Sometimes those men get things wrong. Sometimes those men are affected by other influences and get things wrong on purpose. Far too often, even in Christianity, regular folks read texts and get things wrong even when the texts are right. Hence the fractured nature of our shared faith.
Wars have been waged by Christianity against those of other religions because of an insistence in seeing the world as black and white. You say that to a Muslim, all Christians are infidels. Has it occurred to you that your attitudes are identical?
There is no common thread that I see either.
There is NO wiggle room, none.
You are either a Christian or not
These are the very ideals of Islam that you so loudly decry.
OBVIOUSLY, Christians and Muslim are quite different, as are Jews, Hindus, Harri-Krishnas, and every other religion. That does not change their commonalities. You have the right to focus on those differences. You do, and I respect that. I'm simply suggesting that by focusing on the differences you not only fail to do any good, but lose the opportunity to do good.
Virtually every religion on the planet teaches certain things. Kindness, forgiveness, charity, the importance of prayer, respect for God. You can focus on the differences and be ignored by anyone who doesn't already agree with you, or you can embrace followers of other faiths with open arms and Christ-like understanding. You can look down on them while making lip service prayers for their conversion, or you can befriend them and show them through the example of your own life how much better Christianity can be. "Your religion is wrong," is the worst evangelical platform in the world.
*I realize that my comment about lip service prayers will rub a lot of folks the wrong way, and I hate saying something that will come off like trolling, but it's an important message. God helps those who help themselves. Praying for the conversion of someone you won't make a useful attempt to convert is lip service. It's like praying for riches. Rather than pray for their conversion, why not pray like Solomon for the wisdom to find the right way to help them?
I Kings, 3:9-11 - Give therefore they servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad; for who is able to judge this thy so great a people? And the speech pleased the LORD, that Solomon had asked this thing. And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor has asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment; Behold, I have done according to they words; lo, I have given thee a wise and and understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
Here we go again VeeDubb.. you're perfectly demonstrating that 'immovable/inflexible/intolerant' mindset that We Christians are being accused of possessing in these last days. It's OK for you to be intolerant of 'us' but not us of 'you'.
A lot of those WARS waged by Christianity were not because others failed to 'agree' with Christianity, but because they were trying to annihilate us. I can't speak for every war waged, but I can speak for the Crusades. King James launched the Crusades in defense of Christian Women & Children because of Islam attempting to overtake and conquer the Christian Infidels.
Yes, in essense, you stated it correctly in your previous post: E. All other religions are 100% the work of Satan, and exist only to attack Christianity.
Yes, this is Satan's job from Day 1: Divide & conquer, You're all GODS.. everything you believe is OK.. all paths lead to Heaven and no one is saved by Grace, only 'works' will get you into Heaven... all of that and more.
I focus on our commonality which is the 'path to salvation' which is through Jesus Christ and Him crucified... alone! I preach the Gospel and they (whoever they are, whatever they believe) either receive it or they do not. I pray for them, bless them and move on.. but I NEVER compromise and tell them they are 'correct' in that belief system as I can not and will not as long as the 'truth' of Christ forbids me to.. as the Truth is only through Jesus, and whom the Son sets free is free indeed, and there is no other means or name by which a Man can be saved. None. So why would I want to water that down with 'partial' lies under the guise of political correctness? Telling someone that 'what they believe' is wrong and leads to eternal separation from God and death is not 'hate' speech, it's the truth... it 'matters' what we believe and 'who' we believe. I believe Almighty GOD and His living word, the Bible... nothing else. I preach the 'message' of the 'Good News of Christ' and I don't 'water it down' with 'seeker Friendly' messages. You either receive it or you don't... and I promise I don't hate you or will launch a war or kill you for believing otherwise.... Islam however might. (lol)
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. - Matthew 7:14 (KJV)
A lot of those WARS waged by Christianity were not because others failed to 'agree' with Christianity, but because they were trying to annihilate us. I can't speak for every war waged, but I can speak for the Crusades. King James launched the Crusades in defense of Christian Women & Children because of Islam attempting to overtake and conquer the Christian Infidels.
Yes, in essense, you stated it correctly in your previous post: E. All other religions are 100% the work of Satan, and exist only to attack Christianity.
Yes, this is Satan's job from Day 1: Divide & conquer, You're all GODS.. everything you believe is OK.. all paths lead to Heaven and no one is saved by Grace, only 'works' will get you into Heaven... all of that and more.
I focus on our commonality which is the 'path to salvation' which is through Jesus Christ and Him crucified... alone! I preach the Gospel and they (whoever they are, whatever they believe) either receive it or they do not. I pray for them, bless them and move on.. but I NEVER compromise and tell them they are 'correct' in that belief system as I can not and will not as long as the 'truth' of Christ forbids me to.. as the Truth is only through Jesus, and whom the Son sets free is free indeed, and there is no other means or name by which a Man can be saved. None. So why would I want to water that down with 'partial' lies under the guise of political correctness? Telling someone that 'what they believe' is wrong and leads to eternal separation from God and death is not 'hate' speech, it's the truth... it 'matters' what we believe and 'who' we believe. I believe Almighty GOD and His living word, the Bible... nothing else. I preach the 'message' of the 'Good News of Christ' and I don't 'water it down' with 'seeker Friendly' messages. You either receive it or you don't... and I promise I don't hate you or will launch a war or kill you for believing otherwise.... Islam however might. (lol)
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. - Matthew 7:14 (KJV)
Last edited:
This whole thing is such a gross missinterpretation of everything I've said, that I'm going to have to reply in-line. My responses are in green.
Last edited:
I wanted to respond to this addition to your original post.
I agree with it 100%, but it has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
Yes. The gait is straight and road is narrow.
The question, is what is the best way to take a person who is not on that narrow road, and help them to find that road, so that in the end, they can make it through the gate?
Do you truly believe that the best way to accomplish that is to beat them over the head with how wrong they are? Isn't it possible that building ties and sharing love and understanding with them might be a more effective way of guiding them to the right road?
And again, this isn't just about Christians and Muslims. This is about all people of faith. In the end, there's only one right answer, which means that even the divisions within Christianity may keep some from the gate. After all, there are several denominations that call themselves Christian, but believe in stringent Calvinism and other doctrines that say it isn't just about salvation through Christ.
Again, you missed my point.. did I say I beat them over the head or did I say preach the gospel in love and if they receive it fine, if not I leave in peace?
PS - Again, respectfully, I beg to differ, Religion is Satan's FAVORITE Schick.. hence the lie told to Eve in the Garden being re-perpetuated now... 'Eat of the Tree and you shall not die, you will become a GOD'...
I share love & understanding with every soul I meet, regardless of what or how they believe, I stated that previously VeeDubb.... but there's only one truth, one person that leads to salvation... I won't share another Gospel... I won't compromise, no matter how much 'you' or others like 'you' scream otherwise. God bless you and may He bring you peace.
Veedubb65, why are you assuming that me, blonde, and others here do not love and respect people from other faiths? Where did that idea even come from? Not from us........maybe from your own misunderstanding of who we are? Maybe from watching a few radical christians on tv, and sterotyping and labeling all of us as muslim hating, intolerant people who hate on everyone that doesn't accept Christ.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. I adore people of other faiths. My husband is an agnostic jew, my best friend is an atheist, and I know people from all religions. I adore the hindu and buddhists, and I"m even friends with a muslim that lives in india that I do business with. We have some great conversations about God, religion and life.
I love these people, but I don't agree with them. Big difference and I think you're confusing the two things.
The only kind of people that I can't deal with well are mean people. Other then that, I"m always open to conversation with people from all different faiths, I just don't agree with them on every single point. Especially when it comes to Jesus.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. I adore people of other faiths. My husband is an agnostic jew, my best friend is an atheist, and I know people from all religions. I adore the hindu and buddhists, and I"m even friends with a muslim that lives in india that I do business with. We have some great conversations about God, religion and life.
I love these people, but I don't agree with them. Big difference and I think you're confusing the two things.
The only kind of people that I can't deal with well are mean people. Other then that, I"m always open to conversation with people from all different faiths, I just don't agree with them on every single point. Especially when it comes to Jesus.
Last edited:
Actions speak louder than words. Unfortunately, words are all we have on a forum. I have absolutely no idea what your actions show, and I pass no judgment on your actions or you as a person. Even if I knew you in "real life" that wouldn't be my place.
Your words on the other hand, at least in this discussion, only add to the separation and sadness expressed in the original post, especially laughing about holy wars and murder.
As far as not agreeing, it's all good. If we all agreed on everything, this forum would be neither entertaining, nor enlightening.
- Status
Similar threads
