SS GGTS 2012 SS 6 Sided Button & SS Endcap Issue

[SuperSonic]

SS GGTS 2012 SS 6 Sided Button & SS Endcap Issue

I just wanted to get some feedback in regards to the new 2012 SS 6 sided button and SS endcap for the 2012 SSGGTS.

Here's the deal, since receiving my brand new SSGGTS I have been experiencing periodic misfires and it continues to get worse. I didn't think much of it at first and thought perhaps this was normal for a break-in period until all the components got used to living together as a unit, but that hasn't proved to be the case.

Here are all the steps I've taken to narrow down the symptoms and target the issue.

I am currently running my SSGGTS with my brand new Odysseus in full mode with a brand new expansion kit.
I have 2 brand new AW IMR 18650 3.7v batteries, a brand new 4 bay battery charger purchased at COV 2 weeks ago and I check my batteries with a volt meter before and after I place them in the charger for a recharge.
Both batteries show slightly different voltages, but appear to discharge and change in a similar fashion.
One battery at a full charge will read at 4.23v while the other battery at a full charge will read at 4.19v.
Typically I check the battery level when the vape becomes noticeably weaker. I put the batteries back in the charger at approximately 3.61v for one and 3.66v for the other. I read somewhere that 3.5v was the optimal level for placing the batteries back on charge, but the vape is almost non existent at that level of voltage.

This appears to be normal conditions on the battery.... I am currently using my SSGGTS in 1X 18650 mode for all examples below.

Every single piece of piece of my SSGGTS has been broken down and cleaned numerous times with warm water and the appropriate cleaning solution then all O-rings and tube threads treated with petroleum jelly.

Just for the hell of it, I ohmed out every piece of my TS then as I began to assemble it I continued to ohm it out..... just because. I did not find any issues.

Odysseus... in full mode. I have built well over 12 coils in the last week, built in various resistances, in multiple ways, single coils, dual coils, his res, low res, med res coils, using different types of wick from the Stock Certified wick Imeo recommends (sold at COV) to the Nextel XC-116 which I am currently using and having far better results with wicking. (Not dry wicking.... but rather providing the coil with adequate juice). I have built anywhere from a 0.8ohm coil to a 3.0ohm coil not only to test for a sweet spot, but rather I figured that the coil resistance may have been contributing to the misfires. Currently I'm at 1.6ohm on a single coil, with Kanthal 3 compound 32awg R-Wire and 30awg fine Silver NR-Wire wrapped around Nextel XC-116 torched and soaked.

As well as my TS, I ohmed out every piece of my Ody while apart and while building it, just to verify there were no shorts.

I pulled the button apart to check and clean and reassembled with a brand new button spring purchased at COV. I replaced the battery spring as well with a brand new spring also purchased at COV, additionally thoroughly cleaning around and inside the endcap stem.

I have changed the resistance wires I build the coils with from Kanthal (which is the brand name who also manufactures NiChrome) an 80% Nickel 20% Chromium compound for NiChromeA and the NichromeC which has 16% iron compound.
I have also changed the non resistance wires I use, bouncing between 30awg .999 fine silver to 32awg NicromeA.

Anyway... I now consider myself a coil building expert with the amount of trials and errors, trials and successes I have attained. But that's not the point....

Juices... using a PG base 15%VG but have gone to 35%VG not just for flavor testing, but to see if this was contributing to the misfires in some strange way....

Like I was saying, I pulled all stops to isolate this issue.... it is utterly frustrating.

Now.... last night I broke the whole unit down, cleaned and lubed, same with the Ody, new coil, new wick, freshly charged battery and a new juice at 15%VG. I primed the wick prior to building Odysseus and then again after the tank was filled.

2 good hits..... then a misfire. This went on for more than a few minutes before I pulled the button and endcap out again. I don't know if its a conductive issue or what.... but there is a slight, faint scuff mark on the small pin from the button that makes contact with the endcap stem. I took a Qtip and Iso Alc and cleaned the bottom button contact and the endcap stem.... again. I then emery clothed both sides of the button spring and the both sides of the battery spring to sure the connection.

Assembled..... 5 good hits.....then a misfire. Grrrrrrrrr

Now, instead of pulling everything apart.....again.... I ever so slightly twisted the bottom tube and rotated the button and it hit good, but not every button press. I was getting into the habit of spinning the button prior to every press until that didn't work anymore.
Now, I spin the button, and as I press the button down, I have to apply pressure to one side of the button (press the button against the casing to the left or right side) in order for it to fire correctly.

I don't believe that this is a normal function for this, nor do I believe that this is the procedure for getting my SSGGTS to fire correctly every single time.

I know this whole post sounds crazy, but I've only had my SSGGTS for not even 2 weeks now and have spent more time troubleshooting and taking the unit apart, building coils and changing wick, then I have had actually using it the way it was intended to be used.

I know this issue must be a fluke, but I'm a little baffled and quite miffed with the results I've been getting.

Does anyone else, besides me, have or have had an issue similar to this? If so and you resolved it.... how?

I really love this piece. It's my very first GG and I purchased it as a birthday gift for myself a 2 weeks back.

I just want to enjoy my GG without having to take it apart 3 times a day to make it work correctly for a few good hits.

I know my new GG has a lifetime warranty and I would imagine that the entire button assembly and the encap should be replaced as well as the new springs I just replaced, but I'm not really sure how to go about presenting this issue.

Imeo.... if you happen to read my post... a little guidance please on how to resolve this issue.... Thank you kind sir.

Looking forward to having this issue resolved very soon so I can enjoy my beauty of a SSGGTS.

Peace-

 

[Para]

The key is what you said.....isolate the problem. When you are troubleshooting a problem you have to simplify so forget the ejuice and ratios and coils and such for now. I would put a fully charged battery in the GGTS and a new atomizer in the connector and vape. If the misfires go away you know the problem isn't the switch or end cap.

If misfires continue, I would first swap out the button/switch or end cap and vape; just don't change out more than one item at a time.

While the problem is frustrating; chances are it's a minor issue and an easy fix......just takes time to locate and identify.

 

[SuperSonic]

Understood Para.

The reason I supplemented the post with the juice and coil / wick because at the time I wasn't really sure of what was happening so I resorted to things that were more at risk for "user error".

After a time I came to realize that the issue was in the mechanics.

Put a 510 atty std with a freshly charged 18650 4.23v and it still misfires, unless of course, I press firmly down on the button while pressing the button top to the side of its housing with my finger.

I am still unable to decipher whether it is the button as a whole giving issue, the button contact pin, the endcap stem, the contact with the pin and the endcap.

I'm just beginning to wonder if the stainless steel surfaces have anything to do with it.... or is there a continuity breakdown between the button and endcap. I tried ohming it out (no issue) then checking the throughput voltage when activated and either no voltage when it doesn't fire and voltage when it fires - lower while under a load of coarse.

The button top stem is definitely loose in its housing, the button top and bottom are tight together, but the button swims around ever so slightly in the housing. It's when I move it side to side with my pressing finger does it engage and fire. As soon as I move the button to the side, the coil crackles right up and it produces vapor. If I press the button regular, just normally ...nothing happens.

But I still didn't get my precise answer with my trouble shooting even though I have narrowed it down to the button assembly and the endcap.

I don't have any spare pieces ie: button assemblies or encaps in my arsenal as of yet. I just purchased some extra springs and and O-rings. Being as I don't have the spare parts I can't really swap parts out.

These pieces should be under the warranty especially since the unit is not even 2 weeks old.

I need to find out how to get a new button assembly and endcap, being it is one or the other or it could be both pieces.

I was hoping Imeo may read my post as advise on how to go about this.

Thanks for the advise Para.

Peace-

 

[martinc]

Try unscrewing the bottom cap every so slightly (1/8th of a turn) and tell us what you find.

The work-work-work-misfire leads me to beleive that the button is barely making connection with the post...as is the side-pushing of it.

 

[Para]

Understood Para.

The reason I supplemented the post with the juice and coil / wick because at the time I wasn't really sure of what was happening so I resorted to things that were more at risk for "user error".

After a time I came to realize that the issue was in the mechanics.

Put a 510 atty std with a freshly charged 18650 4.23v and it still misfires, unless of course, I press firmly down on the button while pressing the button top to the side of its housing with my finger.

I am still unable to decipher whether it is the button as a whole giving issue, the button contact pin, the endcap stem, the contact with the pin and the endcap.

I'm just beginning to wonder if the stainless steel surfaces have anything to do with it.... or is there a continuity breakdown between the button and endcap. I tried ohming it out (no issue) then checking the throughput voltage when activated and either no voltage when it doesn't fire and voltage when it fires - lower while under a load of coarse.

The button top stem is definitely loose in its housing, the button top and bottom are tight together, but the button swims around ever so slightly in the housing. It's when I move it side to side with my pressing finger does it engage and fire. As soon as I move the button to the side, the coil crackles right up and it produces vapor. If I press the button regular, just normally ...nothing happens.

But I still didn't get my precise answer with my trouble shooting even though I have narrowed it down to the button assembly and the endcap.

I don't have any spare pieces ie: button assemblies or encaps in my arsenal as of yet. I just purchased some extra springs and and O-rings. Being as I don't have the spare parts I can't really swap parts out.

These pieces should be under the warranty especially since the unit is not even 2 weeks old.

I need to find out how to get a new button assembly and endcap, being it is one or the other or it could be both pieces.

I was hoping Imeo may read my post as advise on how to go about this.

Thanks for the advise Para.

Peace-

If you are sure it's in the end cap/switch I would get a penlight and look down the tube while pressing the button and see exactly how it's hitting the end cap post.....and make sure it's going all the way down to the post. I've got a half dozen SS and none misfire so I don't believe it's inherent to the SS models.

I know this sounds a bit silly, but one thing I would do is remove the switch's locking ring and vape it. It's possible the throw is a bit "shallow" and the button hits the locking ring before making solid contact on the end cap post. Also make sure the button/switch is completely screwed into the tube and is perpendicular...etc.

 

[Ariel_MX]

Another idea that could work, try pulling the button spring a little from both ends to make it a little longer (I know that may sound a bit silly, but it could work)

 

[Torqueguy]

I have 2500 grit crocus cloth but if you don't have any, get a new book of matches. Tear off the striker strip carefully and use it to carefully polish the post. Then polish the contact end on the button and then polish the spring ends. Now you can continue to isolate. I would try a chinese atty that you know is good to isolate the atty connection, etc

 

[B-Rad_The_Mad_Vapr]

my druthers tell me than more than likely will work well after the button is disassembled and cleaned thoroughly

 

[Serpent67]

I believe we had something like this posted before. If I remember right, the cap contact post was was slighty off true axis when tightened fully down and made the button drop shallow.

The OP would back the cap off a quarter turn and then get positive fire.

I too had the same dillemma on my stealth and remedied it by using a SS GGTB button with a customed SS machine screw post.

I made it longer to compensate for the shallow throw to the off kilter cap contact post. Still running it now, though that stealth is now a full GGTS.

 

[martinc]

I believe we had something like this posted before. If I remember right, the cap contact post was was slighty off true axis when tightened fully down and made the button drop shallow.

The OP would back the cap off a quarter turn and then get positive fire.

I too had the same dillemma on my stealth and remedied it by using a SS GGTB button with a customed SS machine screw post.

I made it longer to compensate for the shallow throw to the off kilter cap contact post. Still running it now, though that stealth is now a full GGTS.

One of them guys was me.

Hence why I asked him to try to turn unscrew the bottom cap 1/8th of a turn and report...but I guess he logged off.

 

[Rick.45cal]

I think you are having a poor contact or misalignment with the button and the centerpost. take the bottom tube off with the end cap and button still attached and look down in there and see where it is making contact. I have noticed with mine, that it does occasionally get a build up on the head of the button and on the post, a quick wipe with a pencil eraser removes the gunk from the contact points. I would be careful using emery power on the contact surfaces, I know you said you used it on the spring. I'm thinking it's either the throw is too short, the hole in the bottom tube is slightly canted, or that head of the button that makes contact isn't touching the center post as completely as it should.

 

[Serpent67]

Was that you, Martin? Been awhile so I seemed to have forgotten.

Time does that

 

[Rick.45cal]

This may seem like a dumb question, but no one has asked it... so I will

After you have this misfire check for continuity in Odysseus, is your coil still good? Have all the coils still been good, it's not a short right? If your popping coils when it missfires, you have a short somewhere. If your coils are still good, then it has eliminated all of the Odysseus variables. (Don't worry it isn't your juice either)

 

[Chinner]

Sucks that you're having problems.

I was having the same issues with my stealth for the longest time. I was also spinning the bottom cap to help make contact.

This may sound stupid, but I read somewhere that a pencil eraser will remove corrosion and oxidization from metal, so I tore down and cleaned the button, then scrubbed the button post, pin, and top post on my ufs with an eraser.

Silly as it sounds, I haven't had a misfire since. Good luck!

 

[SuperSonic]

First off, I thank all of you for your valued input. This is one of the main things that I love about this GG crew.... Everyone is extremely willing to offer up their best and most valued advice to help one of our own resolve an issue or give valued input in basically the blink of an eye.

You guys are great!! - Cheers to you!

Although almost all of the posts start off with or have in their context "this may sound silly..." ... I thought my post was crazy!

No, nothing is silly at this point, from pencil erasers, to match flints, to stretching a spring, to whispering in the bottom tube's ear... well that may be a tad eccentric .... but I ain't deeming it silly.

It's just been a real drag of a time with this and I haven't been able to go 1/4 of the day without having to take it apart because the device wasn't performing at all and doing what it was meant to do.

Here are some answers to the posts you've given:

If you are sure it's in the end cap/switch I would get a penlight and look down the tube while pressing the button and see exactly how it's hitting the end cap post.....and make sure it's going all the way down to the post. I've got a half dozen SS and none misfire so I don't believe it's inherent to the SS models.

I know this sounds a bit silly, but one thing I would do is remove the switch's locking ring and vape it. It's possible the throw is a bit "shallow" and the button hits the locking ring before making solid contact on the end cap post. Also make sure the button/switch is completely screwed into the tube and is perpendicular...etc.

I unscrewed the bottom tube with the button assembly and endcap connected to the tube and verified with my Mini Maglite that the bottom of the button pin is indeed making contact with the battery stem and not rubbing or touching any part of the plastic piece (for battery gasses) in the endcap. - So I have a good perpendicular variance there.

I verified the button at full extension and the bottom button pin is making perfect contact with the battery spring holder or endcap stem. I continued to press the button repeatedly many times while viewing down the bottom tube with the Mini Mag. I still have clearance and a variance between the bottom of the top button piece and the locking nut. Just to give a measurement with space, I can fit a thin feeler gauge tong in the space or wrap a piece of 42awg wire one time around in this space while the button is pressed and the pin is bottoming against the endcap stem. Additionally I put some carbon on the bottom of the button pin, put the button assembly back into the tube and pressed it against the endcap stem to make a mark on the stem so I could see where it was hitting. I'm getting a square hit on the stem without anything hindering the throw.

Thank you Para for your continued advice....

Another idea that could work, try pulling the button spring a little from both ends to make it a little longer (I know that may sound a bit silly, but it could work)

Nope not silly Ariel, I actually replaced the button spring with a brand new spring which was ever so slightly taller and had a slightly better resistance. I can feel it in the button recoil. I also emery clothed and lightly sanded 1600grit both sides of the button spring and the battery spring.

Thank you Ariel.....

I have 2500 grit crocus cloth but if you don't have any, get a new book of matches. Tear off the striker strip carefully and use it to carefully polish the post. Then polish the contact end on the button and then polish the spring ends. Now you can continue to isolate. I would try a chinese atty that you know is good to isolate the atty connection, etc

Torque... I polished both spring ends with 1600. I'm hesitant to even slightly mar the finishes on the button pin contact or the endcap stem with a dry abrasive, so I used a car detail fine polishing compound to clean any machine shop oils that may have still been applied, then went over both contact surfaces and full endcap stem with Iso Alcohol and a Q-tip until the impressions in the parts were barely visible. There are now some very faint impressions on each contact where I needed to press the button firmer and to the side.

After all that I did swap out the Ody (with GGTS base) with a 510 Fluxomizer - same deal .... misfire, misfire, push the button down and to the left..... hi. I tell ya though, when this thing hits (with the Ody or Flux) it hits nice and it hits hard with the Ody (due to the custom coil).

Thank you for the advice Torque...

my druthers tell me than more than likely will work well after the button is disassembled and cleaned thoroughly

I thought so too dude... I pulled this button apart 3 separate times. The inside of this button is ultra clean with a brand new spring. Still giving me grief. Although IMHO, the button pin (the pieces that connect together within the housing) I find could have a tighter tolerance within the housing. I can move the button side to side too easily. If it wasn't for the tighter button spring, I would imaging the button would be really sloppy and dance around a lot more than it does now.

Thanks B-Rad .....

I believe we had something like this posted before. If I remember right, the cap contact post was was slighty off true axis when tightened fully down and made the button drop shallow.

The OP would back the cap off a quarter turn and then get positive fire.

I too had the same dillemma on my stealth and remedied it by using a SS GGTB button with a customed SS machine screw post.

I made it longer to compensate for the shallow throw to the off kilter cap contact post. Still running it now, though that stealth is now a full GGTS.

Serpent .... thanks bud... see my first post response to Para and the response to Torqueguy in response to your post. I believe I answered your post in there.

Thanks for your input Seprent.......

I think you are having a poor contact or misalignment with the button and the centerpost. take the bottom tube off with the end cap and button still attached and look down in there and see where it is making contact. I have noticed with mine, that it does occasionally get a build up on the head of the button and on the post, a quick wipe with a pencil eraser removes the gunk from the contact points. I would be careful using emery power on the contact surfaces, I know you said you used it on the spring. I'm thinking it's either the throw is too short, the hole in the bottom tube is slightly canted, or that head of the button that makes contact isn't touching the center post as completely as it should.

Rick, see response to Serpent's post above yours...

This may seem like a dumb question, but no one has asked it... so I will

After you have this misfire check for continuity in Odysseus, is your coil still good? Have all the coils still been good, it's not a short right? If your popping coils when it missfires, you have a short somewhere. If your coils are still good, then it has eliminated all of the Odysseus variables. (Don't worry it isn't your juice either)

Rick man.... I hear ya bud.... as I stated in my very first post in the OP I ohm'd out everything piece by piece then as I assembled each piece TS and Ody separately then together everything all checked out for no issue. That was the primary reason for building as many coils I stated I did in the OP.

I thought perhaps Odysseus was shorting my coils either during the mini build (prior to the tank install) or after it was attached to the GGTS. As soon as it would mis, I would first spin the button top, then I would slightly adjust the bottom tube (1/8 back off then 1/8 forward) then pop the battery and start checking Ody for shorts as I checked the battery for voltage drops.

Thanks Rick (The Kiln Master) I really appreciate your input bud.....

Sucks that you're having problems.

I was having the same issues with my stealth for the longest time. I was also spinning the bottom cap to help make contact.

This may sound stupid, but I read somewhere that a pencil eraser will remove corrosion and oxidization from metal, so I tore down and cleaned the button, then scrubbed the button post, pin, and top post on my ufs with an eraser.

Silly as it sounds, I haven't had a misfire since. Good luck!

Chinner, as I stated in the beginning of this post... nothing is silly at this point. I have used the ol' pencil eraser trick many times with electronic components (I'm also a network engineer) with great success. I believe my response to Torqueguy's post may in fact surpass the eraser fix.

Thanks for your input Chinner.....

I've been playing with the lower tube and parts during my responses to your posts and I'm really beginning to believe that the button internals may be the cause. I just can't help but think that there is too much give or tolerance between the joining of the button top and bottom together as it hit against the inside of the housing.

But, for whatever reason, I just feel that the button just may be one of those fluke defects. I mean it looks good inside and out, it just doesn't hit unless I wiggle the button to a side while pressing down firmly to make contact.....

I'm going to email Bruce at COV and see if he can send me a new button assembly and endcap...

Hopefully there will be no resistance.....

Thanks guys... I'll keep you tuned in as per the results.

Peace-

 

[Rick.45cal]

Supersonic, at this point I would replace the button and see what it does. I think you have pretty much exhausted all other variables.

 

[imeothanasis]

check this video sonic

 

[Para]

SuperSonic....EXCELLENT troubleshooting and observation skills. Swap out the button/switch with Bruce and let us know how it works.

 

[Serpent67]

Get a fuse upgrade along with a button while you are at it.

You will have a more positive tighter lock up for the connections than the spring.

Glad to help, help.

 

[SuperSonic]

check this video sonic

Thank you for reading and responding my post Imeo. I believe throughout all my troubleshooting I have exercised all that was in your video and then some. I realize that the mechanics are basically note for note, but from what I can see, the only thing that differs from the video to my device as much as I can see from the video is the button and housing you are using. The housings appear similar in material. (I can't tell from the video if the housing (button casing) you are using is brass or not and if the button head is round or pointed) my housing is not brass and my button is 6 sided.

When you press down on your button, though the throw is very short on these buttons, it appears you have no side slap or free play side to side. My button is loose and easily moves side to side even with additional spring resistance against the button contact points.

Just this morning, out of sheer determination, I decided to pull the button apart again this morning after a string of misfires and check the internal tolerances of what I was able to gauge. The button, screwed together, definitely swims inside the housing without or with the spring. So, for a temporary solution, I pulled a spring from one of my Pilot C2 pens (looks like stainless - clean shiny silver) and modified it height wise slightly to accept the button depression without hindering the throw then threw the Ohm meter on it to verify resistance. The spring now pushes tighter against the bottom housing and the spring top button to give an even greater resistance, in hopes that it would stiffen the button slack. I then went with 2200 grit paper and ever so gently removed the shine from the bottom button pin contact .... that meets the bottom cap stem. I swabbed all contact points once again in Iso Alcohol with a Q-tip and reassembled. The misfires are now less frequent, still apparent, but the button still moves from side to side slightly. It's when I press the button down and then to the side does the device fire correctly.

I've since, removed the Pilot C2 pen spring and inserted 2 original GG button springs intertwined together (I wanted to keep every piece original from the factory) in hopes that the button slack would not be as imminent.

Though the button is stiffer, which is cool, I'm still getting misfires, less frequently now, but misfires nonetheless, unless I press down and to the side.

Ahhhhh... I think I just need a new button assembly with a tighter internal tolerance....

Still waiting on a response from the vendor ........

Thank you Imeo ......

Peace-