Starting a LIST of diacetyl-free ejuice suppliers. Please, keep to JUST listing the supplier names!

[JFalcon]

Do we have any kind of list of suppliers that are diketone-free period? Or at least affirm that they are? I think lately a lot of vendors realize they kind of stepped in it about this issue, and are kind of backtracking their claims.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Do we have any kind of list of suppliers that are diketone-free period? Or at least affirm that they are? I think lately a lot of vendors realize they kind of stepped in it about this issue, and are kind of backtracking their claims.

Yeah vapers started getting wise to the facts and they couldn't pull the same tactics.

 

[Panga13]

Not sure if this is OT or not as the first two are flavor companies not juice companies.

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Flavor Art:

MY MESSAGE:

Please confirm that your custard contains no diketones.

This means diacetyl, or any of its substitutes including acetyl propionyl, acetoin.

Thank you



REPLY:
Date: 2014-02-03 08:45:10
Name: Massimiliano Mancini
Message:

Hello
We confirm it does NOT contains diketones

Cordiali saluti/Best regards,

Massimiliano

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Inawera

MY MESSAGE:

Which of your flavors contain diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, acetoin or any other diketones?

Thanks

REPLY:

None of our flavours contain these ingredients.

Best regards,

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Still waiting on a reply from Capella, FlavorWest & LorAnns. TFA/TPA label the flavors that contain acetyl propionyl, acetoin (or diacetyl)

Also Grant of Grant's Vanilla Custard says he got his juice tested specifically for these problem chemicals and the ECITA lab test showed no acetoin, diacetyl, acetyl propionyl.

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[hootietoot]

NicQuid

"NicQuid® e-liquids are made from the finest GRAS, food grade artificial and natural flavorings. What you will never find in our e-liquid products are artificial dyes, artificial colors, added alcohol, or added water. To that, NicQuid® e-liquids do not contain diacetyl or ‘custard notes’. We start and end with the best."

https://www.nicquid.com/ingredients.html

 

[Brobdingnagian]

Not sure if this is OT or not as the first two are flavor companies not juice companies.

Completely relevant, as lots of juice companies use the same flavor companies.

Still waiting on a reply from Capella, FlavorWest & LorAnns. TFA/TPA label the flavors that contain acetyl propionyl, acetoin (or diacetyl)

Indeed, this happened when there was a huge blowup once people figured out what was in the "butter flavored popcorn" vapes.

They (TFA/TPA) re-formulated several liquids at that time and re-labeled the ones containing diacetyl. I implicitly recall several people mentioning flavors tasting different after this occurred.

Also Grant of Grant's Vanilla Custard says he got his juice tested specifically for these problem chemicals and the ECITA lab test showed no acetoin, diacetyl, acetyl propionyl.

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Still all and good, but where can we view the lab results? If they're negative, we should be able to at least look at them, correct?

Not that I'm implying Grant is lying about this, but it really means a lot to have that peace of mind.

This standard should apply for any vendor that makes this claim.

NicQuid

"NicQuid® e-liquids are made from the finest GRAS, food grade artificial and natural flavorings. What you will never find in our e-liquid products are artificial dyes, artificial colors, added alcohol, or added water. To that, NicQuid® e-liquids do not contain diacetyl or ‘custard notes’. We start and end with the best."

https://www.nicquid.com/ingredients.html

I have a bottle of Daybreak that not only is a bright, artificial red-orange color, but has a caramel aftertaste and heavily congests me.

If only we could see the lab results for all of these e-liquids.

Sorry to post my thoughts rather than a supplier who is diacetyl free- but unless we see individual batch testing (expensive) or scientific validation, they're all just claims.

I would say Vapelicious (not Vape-a-licious the ECF-registered vendor) but Ethan has gone MIA.

He knew way more about diacetyl than I did at the time and even explained the dangers of the diketones to me over the phone.

The title of this thread should be changed to "Starting a LIST of diketone-free ejuice suppliers. Please, keep to JUST listing the supplier names!"

If I rambled too much, (as I tend to) please feel free to delete this post.

 

[AnnieP65]

Aren't diacetyl substitutes just as bad if inhaled?

 

[JuRuKi]

I love vanilla custard. Is it impossible to make that flavor without diacetyl/diacetyl substitutes?

 

[Mr.Mann]

I love vanilla custard. Is it impossible to make that flavor without diacetyl/diacetyl substitutes?

From all that I've read, that is the only way to get a custard flavor that actually tastes like custard. This is also true with butter flavors. Now, a vendor can name their liquid or describe it in any way they choose, but to me, if it tastes like custard-y or butter,y irrespective of what it's called, I question the ingredients and opt to not vape it. I had a Creme Brulee flavor and the mouth-feel was all too velvety and custard-like, so I made the decision to PIF it to someone that doesn't care one way or another.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I love vanilla custard. Is it impossible to make that flavor without diacetyl/diacetyl substitutes?

We don't really know, and some of the substitutes are very close in the molecular composition to diacetyl, so one can only speculate. It is not proven that even diacetyl is bad to vape, but in the opinion of many, there is enough reason, however, to at least choose other ingredients not related, or to disclose when diacetyl and diacetyl-like ingredients are used.

Unfortunately this conversation has focused a lot on "custard" -- which makes sense since so many custard flavors are all the rage again -- but there are many vendors that sell liquids like pancakes, waffles, creme brulee, popcorn, butterscotch, etc., and state in the descriptions things such as "buttery goodness" -- that type of description is code for me about ingredients used.

 

[erazzz]

Virgin Vapor claims they don't use DEG (diethylene glycol), but said nothing about the substitutes.

No DEG. No artificial flavorings. No artificial colorings. No artificial sweeteners. All of our flavors are USA made and third party certified organic

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

I love vanilla custard. Is it impossible to make that flavor without diacetyl/diacetyl substitutes?

From what Linda at TFA/TPA is stating, it'd be impossible to make a custard taste like custard without one or two specific ingredients: Acetoin, Diacetyl or Acetyl Proprionyl. Since most flavor vendors are moving away from Diacetyl, that leaves only two chemicals.

TFA's Vanilla Custard has Acetoin and Acetyl Proprionyl. Capella's uses Acetyl Proprionyl but they are working on a V2 of the flavor without it (no release date just yet).


The only vendor I've found to be free of all of those chemicals is FlavourArt but.....their custard tastes nothing like custard and when experimenting with 5%, 10% and 15% flavor, it took a major turn on me and went south. It may be a good food flavor but it's not to the liking of my palate and it didn't age/steep too well for me (tested at 2 weeks, 4 weeks 6 weeks and 8 weeks).


As for flavors in general, if you're looking to avoid Diacetyl, AP or even Acetoin, it'd be best to avoid all flavors that are known to be buttery in real life as most flavors that are developed are designed to be the company's' interpretation of said flavor. Custard, Waffles, Butter, Frosting, some syrups (i.e. butter flavored maple syrup), most cakes or cake batters, cheesecake, etc. Theirs a laundry list of things that are indeed buttery and some that are not as obvious.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Virgin Vapor claims they don't use DEG (diethylene glycol), but said nothing about the substitutes.

Forgive me for saying this, but that's kind of a lame claim! What vendor uses DG?

 

[Erikb214]

I just have to believe its not there but fruity flavors tend to have it

 

[Lookingglass]

Mount Baker Vapor confirmed today: "Yes, our eliquid is free of harmful chemicals such as Acetonin, Diacetyl, and Acetyl Propionyl."

 

[GaryInTexas]

Mount Baker Vapor confirmed today: "Yes, our eliquid is free of harmful chemicals such as Acetonin, Diacetyl, and Acetyl Propionyl."

Where was this posted at?

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

Where was this posted at?

All Flavor West flavoring is free of Diacetyl (it's on their site, on all flavor product pages near the bottom), though I'd imagine they got in touch with them direct to confirm that it was free of Acetoin and AP.

 

[GaryInTexas]

I was aware of the disclaimer regarding diacetyl from FW but this is the first I've heard of a disclaimer on the acetonin and acetyl propionyl also. I've checked MBVs FB page, their website and also their vendor forum on this site and do not see any mention of it. I would think this would be prominently posted somewhere but I don't see anywhere.

 

[Lookingglass]

Where was this posted at?

I was in contact with them via e-mail.

 

[Panga13]

The wording of the MBV claim is almost identical to that Grant used in an email to me. I do not know how they can say "contains no harmful chemicals" as all of this is speculation. We don't know what is harmful yet. They may mean "chemicals that have been shown to be harmful" which would include diacetyl, acetyl propionyl and acetoin, BUT NOT the other diketones (and the 1 non diketone diacetyl substitute). Obviously these are two very different meanings.

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LorAnn's never gave me a full list of flavors containing diketones, but would answer yes/no in relation to specific flavors. I gave them a long list of flavors that I thought could contain diketones and this was the reply:

The following flavors contain NO diketones:

0630 pistachio flavor
0380 amaretto flavor
0590 marshmallow flavor
0260 watermelon flavor
0360 bubble gum flavor
0150 cherry flavor
0040 cran-raspberry flavor
0180 grape flavor
0340 root beer flavor
0160 raspberry flavor

The following flavors contain either acetoin and/or acetyl propionyl:

0850 mint chocolate chip flavor
0830 bavarian cream flavor
0680 cheesecake flavor
0250 banana cream flavor
0140 butter flavor
0190 butter rum flavor
0210 butterscotch flavor
0820 chocolate hazelnut flavor
0212 cinnamon roll flavor
0420 eggnog flavor
0430 english toffee flavor
0270 maple flavor
0580 peanut butter flavor
0810 pralines and cream flavor
0310 vanilla butternut flavor
3530 creamy caramel natural
0800 orange cream flavor
0320 strawberry flavor

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2 things to note here: First, the use of diketones to mean (only?) diacetyl, acetoin and acetyl propionyl. Second, some of the flavors that contain diketones suprised me e.g. "strawberry". Note that this list is far from all their flavors so please contact them yourselves.

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Capella never replied

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I am untrusting by nature and also skeptical that some of these companies (esp juice makers)o understand the chemistry we are asking about.

I agree 100% with the post above: show us the tests or your claims mean nothing. I am now buying only Flavor Art flavors.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

The wording of the MBV claim is almost identical to that Grant used in an email to me. I do not know how they can say "contains no harmful chemicals" as all of this is speculation. We don't know what is harmful yet. They may mean "chemicals that have been shown to be harmful" which would include diacetyl, acetyl propionyl and acetoin, BUT NOT the other diketones (and the 1 non diketone diacetyl substitute). Obviously these are two very different meanings.

.....

2 things to note here: First, the use of diketones to mean (only?) diacetyl, acetoin and acetyl propionyl. Second, some of the flavors that contain diketones suprised me e.g. "strawberry". Note that this list is far from all their flavors so please contact them yourselves.

----------------

Capella never replied

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I am untrusting by nature and also skeptical that some of these companies (esp juice makers)o understand the chemistry we are asking about.

I agree 100% with the post above: show us the tests or your claims mean nothing. I am now buying only Flavor Art flavors.

I posted this in another thread discussing this very topic, though I'm posting this again in this thread just in case no one sees the other and/or for those that are subscribed to this thread.


In regards to Capella's, they are working on testing all of their flavors for the levels of Acetyl Proprionyl in their flavorings. From what Tom said, this is the chemical that they use in their flavoring. It's definitely in the Vanilla Custard, but the v2 of Vanilla Custard is on its way and it contains none of the three chemicals (i.e. Diacetyl, Acetoin or Acetyl Proprionyl). The next 7 flavor releases will follow suit (i.e. they will not have these chemicals in them). The existing line-up of flavors will not change / be modified, but they are working to see which flavors do have AP / which ones do not and the levels within each. The more popular flavors may follow suit over time as well (i.e. they may be making v2's of other flavors in their line-up - none yet confirmed).

I reached out to Flavor West directly, skipping past MBV since they are a reseller. Sarah responded to my e-mail and as of today, this is the [short] list of flavors that use Acetyl Proprionyl - coming from Sarah, no other flavors that they sell contain AP, Acetoin or Diacetyl. It's a short list indeed

1). Maple Pecan (0.278)
2). Pumpkin Spice (0.272)
3). Jamaican Rum (0.155)

The numbers beside each flavor represent the levels of Acetyl Proprionyl in each one in PPM (Parts per Million).