Starting a LIST of diacetyl-free ejuice suppliers. Please, keep to JUST listing the supplier names!

[vangrl27]

FYI, Jonathon Tittle received this reply from Flavor West regarding the lab results for their Butterscotch

"I just heard back from Sarah at FlavorWest and they've seen the report that's floating around (i.e. the one in this thread) and they are requesting an ingredient list from their raw material supplier to confirm that the report is accurate. Sarah also mentioned that within the next 30-45 days, they plan on adding a COA (Certificate of Analysis) for each flavor they sell. The COA will document what is in the flavoring so there will be no question about whether Diacetyl, Acetoin or Acetyl Proprionyl is in there. If it is, you'll know it by simply reading the COA."

You'd kinda think that they would have requested an ingredient report before seeing this lab test floating around. Seems like a responsible way to go about running a business.

 

[eethr]

FYI, Jonathon Tittle received this reply from Flavor West regarding the lab results for their Butterscotch

"I just heard back from Sarah at FlavorWest and they've seen the report that's floating around (i.e. the one in this thread) and they are requesting an ingredient list from their raw material supplier to confirm that the report is accurate. Sarah also mentioned that within the next 30-45 days, they plan on adding a COA (Certificate of Analysis) for each flavor they sell. The COA will document what is in the flavoring so there will be no question about whether Diacetyl, Acetoin or Acetyl Proprionyl is in there. If it is, you'll know it by simply reading the COA."

You'd kinda think that they would have requested an ingredient report before seeing this lab test floating around. Seems like a responsible way to go about running a business.

I'm thinking that this whole scene kind of crept up on everybody.

I would guess that when you're near the top of the chain, you figure that those reputable folks at the top wouldn't risk lying.

But more and more it's looking like the larger the corporation, and the higher up they are, the more they don't give a hoot. Or worse.

 

[vangrl27]

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I'm thinking that this whole scene kind of crept up on everybody.

I would guess that when you're near the top of the chain, you figure that those reputable folks at the top wouldn't risk lying.

But more and more it's looking like the larger the corporation, and the higher up they are, the more they don't give a hoot. Or worse.

this list of "Diacetyl free e-juice suppliers" is probably kinda useless if they just rely on the word of their flavor supplier, and the flavour suppliers only rely on the word of their raw material suppliers

What really needs to happen is, all individual flavors are properly tested in a lab. The lab results, or at least every ingredient should then be made available to the public, so the customer that's actually consuming the product can decide whether or not they want to inhale Diacety, acetoin or acetyl.
In a perfect world i guess...

 

[fjgotgame24]

So in a nutshell stop vaping creamy based juices right? This will pretty much give me the best shot to avoid vaping the chemicals that are mentioned in this thread...? Because Im not trying to vape any of that stuff even if they are my preferred juices.

 

[eethr]

So in a nutshell stop vaping creamy based juices right? This will pretty much give me the best shot to avoid vaping the chemicals that are mentioned in this thread...? Because Im not trying to vape any of that stuff even if they are my preferred juices.

It sure looks that way.

When I started reading about these chemicals, and checking juice Websites, I noticed that there were some that said diacetyl-free, but yet had creamy or buttery flavors, and I wondered how they were able to do that. Now I know.

There were some chemicals listed in the test results (a link to which was posted in this topic) that seemed to not have any ill effects show up, but that was only skin tests, not lung tests. It would be nice if somebody did some real testing.

I would think that flavor makers would soon realize that the public wants ingredients listed somewhere. If not on the bottle, then at least on their Website. And whoever does that first, will likely get lots of extra business.

 

[Mr.Mann]

It sure looks that way.

When I started reading about these chemicals, and checking juice Websites, I noticed that there were some that said diacetyl-free, but yet had creamy or buttery flavors, and I wondered how they were able to do that. Now I know.

There were some chemicals listed in the test results (a link to which was posted in this topic) that seemed to not have any ill effects show up, but that was only skin tests, not lung tests. It would be nice if somebody did some real testing.

I would think that flavor makers would soon realize that the public wants ingredients listed somewhere. If not on the bottle, then at least on their Website. And whoever does that first, will likely get lots of extra business.

Their has been testing on the those diacetly-like compounds on lung function, and from what I remember, the results (in those poor rats) was similar to that of diacetyl. I don't know at what levels, so that is obviously a big factor, but that still would place them, IMO, as comparable to dicaetyl for risks (if there are any). So I would say -- and this is just my opinion -- the question should be, if diacetyl should be omitted, then why not the other compounds that are so close to diacetyl?

But this conversation is going in circles now. I apologize for basically repeating what everyone else is saying.

 

[aikanae1]

Don't worry, someone else will start another thread covering the same subjet.

Flavorings are made for food and using them as a part of an inhalant is fairly recent. I question if the vaping industry is large enough to change how another industry does things. I'm not saying questions are bad, quite the opposite. But it's still our choice where to spend our money based on what we are most comfortable with. I believe diacetyl was found in cigarette smoke too and the amount found in vapor (bad 2009 test?) was still 400x's less than smoke. So no matter what, vaping is still healthier than smoking. That's good news.

Right now, I'm more concerned with preserving our right to vape and have flavors since flavoring is a huge draw for me.

 

[jimivapr]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...at-if-listed-chemicals-bad-2.html#post5710845

Seriously. Do a search.
This is the flavor industry. Not the produce industry.

Of course they can be organic! http://www.flavorganics.com/OurProducts.aspx


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[aikanae1]

Of course they can be organic! Shop for Flavorganics Certified Organic Flavored Extracts and Certified Organic Flavored Syrups - Almond, Anise, Chocolate, Coconut, Coffee, Hazelnut, Lemon, Orange, Peppermint, Vanilla, Amaretto, Cane, Caramel, Chocolate, French Vanilla, Hazelnut, I


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MOST (not all) flavors use PG. How can a petroleum product be organic?

Several of those you linked to use OIL which is a no-no in eliquid and this is in the eliquid secton. Not DIY. Those are extracts not eliquids.

This was about a list of eliquids free of diacetyl. I didn't see anything about diacetyl on the website, whether they test for it or not. Diacetyl is naturally occuring and I assume, can be "organic".

They are also using agave which I think there's some question about (but don't recall for sure). I think I'd prefer agave to sucrose for sweetner. In the stores, agave is usually mixed with Stevia and for some reason Stevia is out too. There's a huge thread on add-in's, plus more threads dedicated to the topic of sweetners in the DIY section. You can read them like I did.

I based my opinion, which isn't fact, based on comments in other posts. Read them and make up your own mind. Many of the premixed eliquids saying they are "organic" are not certified, use a pertroleum by-product and use the term broadly.

I am no authority. I was just answering a question that didn't have a response.

Honestly, I am not trying to change your religion. I promise.

 

[jimivapr]

MOST (not all) flavors use PG. How can a petroleum product be organic?
.

Flavors are mixed with PG. PG is not a flavor. More importantly, PG is NOT a petroleum product! We'd likely all be dead if it was!

I could assure you I have no 'religion' in this area. Your statement was just completely inaccurate and misleading!


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[aikanae1]

All flavorings need a carrier.
IN, TFA, FW, 1o1, VZ Gourmet, LO, FA, CA, HN = use PG as a carrier in their flavorings.
PG free flavors are VZ SC, NF. They use alcohol.
So there's 2 flavorings without PG vs. 10 flavorings with PG.

But your right. It appears PG is organic. My mistake.

Propylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Propylene glycol, also called 1,2-propanediol or propane-1,2-diol, is an organic compound (a diol or double alcohol) with formula C3H8O2.

CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21
Sec. 184.1666 Propylene glycol.
(a) Propylene glycol (C3H8O2, CAS Reg. No. 57-55-6) is known as 1,2-propanediol. It does not occur in nature. Propylene glycol is manufactured by treating propylene with chlorinated water to form the chlorohydrin which is converted to the glycol by treatment with sodium carbonate solution. It is also prepared by heating glyercol with sodium hydroxide.

Saying PG comes from petroleum appears to be an over simplification.

Propene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Propene is produced from fossil fuels—petroleum, natural gas, and, to a much lesser extent, coal. Propene is a byproduct of oil refining and natural gas processing. During oil refining, ethylene, propene, and other compounds are produced as a result of cracking larger hydrocarbon molecules to produce hydrocarbons more in demand. A major source of propene is cracking intended to produce ethylene, but it also results from refinery cracking producing other products.[4] Propene can be separated by fractional distillation from hydrocarbon mixtures obtained from cracking and other refining processes; refinery-grade propene is about 50 to 70%.[4]

About Propylene Glycols | Dow Propylene Glycols
Propylene glycol (PG) is manufactured from propylene oxide, a petroleum-based raw material.
In countries of the European Union, propylene glycol is not cleared as a general-purpose food grade product or direct food additive. The European Council Directive 95/2/EC on food additives regulates its use in foodstuffs for human consumption.

Propylene Glycol and Electronic Cigarettes | HDSmoke.com
Propylene glycol is a petroleum-based product, in other words it is derived from crude oil. The crude oil is processed into a substance called Naptha which is in turn created into an intermediate substance called Propylene Oxide. This substance is then turned into propylene glycol. A glycol is simply a form of an alcohol molecule. It is this molecular transformation which makes propylene glycol function as a moisturizing agent.

We're not all dead from using PG.
I'm done.

 

[eethr]

Don't worry, someone else will start another thread covering the same subjet.

Flavorings are made for food and using them as a part of an inhalant is fairly recent. I question if the vaping industry is large enough to change how another industry does things. I'm not saying questions are bad, quite the opposite. But it's still our choice where to spend our money based on what we are most comfortable with. I believe diacetyl was found in cigarette smoke too and the amount found in vapor (bad 2009 test?) was still 400x's less than smoke. So no matter what, vaping is still healthier than smoking. That's good news.

Right now, I'm more concerned with preserving our right to vape and have flavors since flavoring is a huge draw for me.

Many things behave and/or cause effects differently, at different orders of magnitude.

400x less than smoke is a big difference. Like I mentioned before, cooking (especially frying and sauteing) with butter, and whatever other natural ingredients contain diacetyl, hasn't caused "chef's lungs" or anything like that. I would think that if it did, the pattern would have been observed and noted by now (after what, thousands of years of their use?)

And also as someone said, there are people who have been vaping creamy, buttery, and even straight butter flavor ejuices for a few years now, and no reports of trouble so far. Of course it could go unrecognized or just unreported, but it seems that something would have shown up by now. Yet they could always make up an outright lie, just to get vaping outlawed, too.

I think they will have a very hard time trying to outlaw vaping all together, however. Because they have already stated that nicotine has about the same effect on the body as caffeine, which is minimal or even good for you in normal amounts. And thay already use propylene glycol in asthma inhalers! It seems that glycerine has even less negative reactions than the PG.

So only the flavoring can be suspicious now. And I would rather just vape plain VG and nic, than go back to smoking!

There certainly must be at least some kinds of flavoring that are harmless, and possibly even some that are good for you. And it's likely that some of those just might taste pretty good, whatever they are.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

Hello, my fellow vapers..

There's a recent thread about the safety of & what constitutes as something being "certified organic" (which is different from the "organic" definition of containing at least one carbon atom)...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...lavorings-more-hazardous-than-artificial.html


It's probably better to keep the thread you're reading now limited to diacetyl (and substitutes)...


Yes, diacetyl is an "organic" compound -- meaning that it contains at least 1 carbon atom in its chemical structure..

And although it's used for artificial flavoring, if one were to be liberal with their wording, somebody could say it's natural & technically be "correct," since it is naturally-occurring..

And yes, from what I understand, diacetyl could be present in some "certified organic" foods & flavorings...


Anyway, here's something a little creepy (bolded mine)...

In 2003, the EPA reported that it would complete a project on evaluating the compounds emitted through popping microwave popcorn. Ultimately, it has been shown that diacetyl is just one agent that can cause flavorings-related lung disease:

"The flavorings industry has estimated that over a thousand flavoring ingredients have the potential to be respiratory hazards due to possible volatility and irritant properties (alpha, beta-unsaturated aldehydes and ketones, aliphatic aldehydes, aliphatic carboxylic acids, aliphatic amines, and aliphatic aromatic thiols and sulfides)."

Diacetyl - Toxipedia

 

[Purplepeeps]

Thank you to those who are keeping the list updated.
I heard back from the owners of two local vendors.

Both Unique and e-volution CLAIM to be diacetyl and diacetyl substitute, free.

 

[vangrl27]

Thank you to those who are keeping the list updated.
I heard back from the owners of two local vendors.

Both Unique and e-volution are diacetyl and diacetyl substitute, free.

and they know that how? did they do lab tests on their finished product? or are they taking the word of their flavour suppliers?

 

[Purplepeeps]

I'm just going by what they told me.

Here's their sites:

uniquecigs.com
E-volution Liquid - E-volution

 

[vangrl27]

I'm just going by what they told me.

Here's their sites:

uniquecigs.com
E-volution Liquid - E-volution

well they also state this-
"Our new Signature Liquid contains ONLY FOUR ingredients!
USP Grade, Kosher Propylene Glycol
USP Grade, Kosher Vegetable Glycerin
Natural & Artificial Flavorings
Nicotine (Unless 0%)"

I'm pretty positive that Artificial flavorings are comprised of more than just 1 ingredient

 

[Purplepeeps]

So most companies only use natural flavorings? Is there a list of these?

 

[vangrl27]

So most companies only use natural flavorings? Is there a list of these?

no I'd say most use artificial. I'd also say that Natural flavourings contain more than 1 ingredient as well


"Thousands of natural volatile compounds make up the flavors and aromas of the things we eat. Even simple natural flavors like vanilla can be made up of hundreds of compounds, most of which have very strange sounding chemical names"

 

[Jerms]

well they also state this-
"Our new Signature Liquid contains ONLY FOUR ingredients!
USP Grade, Kosher Propylene Glycol
USP Grade, Kosher Vegetable Glycerin
Natural & Artificial Flavorings
Nicotine (Unless 0%)"

I'm pretty positive that Artificial flavorings are comprised of more than just 1 ingredient

Of course artificial and natural ingredients are composed of many compounds and chemicals, but that doesn't make it improper to call a flavor 1 ingredient. When vendors state the concept above, it's usually to point out they don't add water, alcohol, coloring, or any other separate additives to the standard pg/vg, flavoring, and nic needed to make juice; it's not meant as a blanket statement that all the chemicals involved in making a flavoring is certified safe to inhale.