Sub Ohm Vaping? Pros/Cons/Why?

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fabricator4

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Really folks, not trying to be mean, just wanted to know what is the most common meter (or ruler) used to measure .2 or .47 ohm? It's not like I asked what it the total path resistance of your mod, including cell resistance, and what percentage of energy is consumed by your mod and not the coil. You know, the I squared/R losses. (I have a hard time getting total loop resistance under 60 milliohms, excluding coil).
Now, that would be mean :)


To do what you want with any degree of accuracy, you would measure the voltage drop across a known precision resistor (+/- 1%) in parallel series with your coil or device. Using Ohms law you can then calculate the actual resistance of the coil or device to at least two decimal places with some degree of accuracy. Circuit examples and methods can be found in any basic electronics text.

Low ohm measuring devices are available that would work with this kind of accuracy, but the price tag would be prohibitive for our simple purposes.
 
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Shadav

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dr g

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just looked again and the PD is the protected version. regardless still want to know the best safest ones for my brother. guessing the aw IMR 1600?

I plan on running .8ohm -1ohm in my mech and will most likely have my brother do the same.

The PD is unprotected and it will be fine in that application. Great even.

Really folks, not trying to be mean, just wanted to know what is the most common meter (or ruler) used to measure .2 or .47 ohm? It's not like I asked what it the total path resistance of your mod, including cell resistance, and what percentage of energy is consumed by your mod and not the coil. You know, the I squared/R losses. (I have a hard time getting total loop resistance under 60 milliohms, excluding coil).
Now, that would be mean :)

This is the usual 510 ohmmeter the coilheads use: Cartomizer and Atomizer Ohm Meter

Personally I use a vamo.
 

The Ocelot

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I have tried sub ohm, and like others have stated it is NOT for everyone, if you enjoy it and are being safe and are not suggesting others try something stupid that can get them hurt, go for it.

I don't care for the hot vape it gave me, or the lack of flavor. Also I did go through more juice and more batteries in a day.

Proper high wattage should not be hot or lacking flavor. It will have more flavor if anything.

sub·jec·tive

səbˈjektiv/
adjective

1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
 

Rocketman

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To do what you want with any degree of accuracy, you would measure the voltage drop across a known precision resistor (+/- 1%) in parallel with your coil or device. Using Ohms law you can then calculate the actual resistance of the coil or device to at least two decimal places with some degree of accuracy. Circuit examples and methods can be found in any basic electronics text.

Low ohm measuring devices are available that would work with this kind of accuracy, but the price tag would be prohibitive for our simple purposes.

Measuring the voltage drop across an accurately known resistance in parallel with an unknown resistance (coil) would give you the current in the parallel leg that had your precision resistor in it. Seems you would have to know something else to get coil resistance.

Got an example, with numbers you could post? Maybe with round numbers, like a 0.5 ohm coil?

EDIT: fab4, maybe a resistor in SERIES with the coil?
A typical late night flub. happens to me all the time.
One cheap method of measuring a resistance would be to connect the unknown in series with a known, highly accurate resistor, of approximately the same value as the unknown and measuring the voltage drop across each individually. With nearly the same meter readings on both, the meter would be used only as a transfer standard, eliminating almost all meter error. To eliminate errors from an unstable current source, two meters could be used simultaneously, readings recorded, the meters swapped, recorded and the values averaged. The ratio of the resistors would be the average voltage ratio. A pair of $4 Harbor Freight meters could be used to give readings about as accurate as the known resistor. Accuracies better than the meter scale accuracy can be made this way. (typical transfer technique used in a Metrology Lab)
A third resistor could be used if you didn't have a variable power source to have measured values with sufficient meter resolution. Like 100mv on the 200mv range, or 1 volt on the 2 volt range.


Just wondering, is that what most subohmers use?

dr.g has provided two examples of measuring devices. Thank you.
 
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dr g

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sub·jec·tive

səbˈjektiv/
adjective

1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Temperature is not subjective, and taste on a macro level is also not subjective. Taste quality is subjective, but the presence or lack of a taste is largely objective.

Subohm/high wattage builders know that when you don't do things right you can get a hot, tasteless vape. A lot of people do this and think high wattage is not for them, but in reality, they just did it wrong.
 

Shadav

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So a mech mod will allow you to vape with super low res coils.

Can someone tell me the pros and cons and why it seems so popular now?

Based on my limited understanding, it can be dangerous (overstressing the battery) and if you make your own coils you have to watch you don't short out anything.

It seems like "chasing the dragon", this quest for the most intense vape.

By vaping at such low ohms, doesn't it drain your battery faster? Resulting in the need to charge more often, and therefore in the long run, a decreased battery lifetime?

Also what are INR batteries? Are they similar to IMR batts?

Thanks.

sorry i'm really of no help, I still like to read through threads though and try to learn more....but sub ohms will prob always be above my head....and cloud chasing I just don't really get...seems like a complete waste of vape to me

as for danger...of course there will always be those that want to push the envelope and take risks that they know they shouldn't

I would never drive a car like this
flame-shooting-hot-rod-620x250.jpg

but plenty of other people would
 

The Ocelot

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Temperature is not subjective, and taste on a macro level is also not subjective. Taste quality is subjective, but the presence or lack of a taste is largely objective.

Subohm/high wattage builders know that when you don't do things right you can get a hot, tasteless vape. A lot of people do this and think high wattage is not for them, but in reality, they just did it wrong.

If you set-up the equipment for me, perfectly to your specifications, I would like it, no matter what?
 

Rocketman

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Well, I pretty much got my questions answered, and maybe the OP did also.
Thanks.

If you use 0.5 ohms or above, and can reproduce the coil resistance to 4% or so (+/- 0.02 ohms), then you shouldn't have any trouble making and testing subohm coils. The somewhat low, but positive, temperature coefficient of resistance for Kanthal alloys allows low current (at just a few milliamps) resistance testing with less than one percent error compared to normal vaping current and temperature (wet coil).
The coil resistance meter (constant current source and voltmeter) is a cheap way to wind coils over and over repeatably. At $20, or less, it sounds like a nice tool to own and could save you a few headaches. A lot less trouble than firing up a HP3478A just to measure e-cig coils. The typical 3 1/2 digit multimeter is a waste for low resistance measurements. A few 1% or better resistors from someplace like digikey would also make a nice cheap addition to a 'coil lab'.

ICR protected cells (at least 18650 please), good ones with 2 or 3 mosfets on the protection board, not the cheaper single mosfet boards that would trip at 3 amps or so, sound like they should handle intermittent currents up to 5 or 6 amps. That should safely handle the 0.7 to 0.8 ohm subohmers without tripping out all the time (full charge trip on current limit), unless you are boosting output to above native cell voltage. Of course you have to put up with another 25 milliohms or so in the current path because of the Mosfets. Any good IMR 18650 should be able to handle 10 amps and cover the 0.5 ohm and above vapers.

Few vapers consider the power lost in the mod itself. Even regulated mods which might give you a constant vape, chew up battery power. Usually more as the coil or carto resistance is lower. That might be noticeable trying to get as many hits as possible from a charge. Go below 0.5 ohms and you could be losing 30% or more of your watt hours in the mod itself if every contact in the total current path isn't spiffy clean. A good quality purely mechanical mod with a loop resistance of 0.05 ohms (that's actually pretty darn good), and a 0.2 ohm coil would waste 20% in just the mod. Some of that in just the 510 connection.
Sound like I got that right?

I've done several 'twice pipe' mods with dual 1.5 ohm DCCs. While not the same hit wise, the mod and cell don't know the difference between four 3 ohm coils in parallel and a single 0.75 ohm coil. You might, but the mod/cell won't. Now, if you went to parallel 18650 cells, or a 26650, the cells will feel much better in the morning :)
Here's a few twice pipe, 0.75 ohm capable homemade mods I found on the internet.
TwicePipes_zps3e48fcd2.jpg
 
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sawtoothscream

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The PD is unprotected and it will be fine in that application. Great even.



This is the usual 510 ohmmeter the coilheads use: Cartomizer and Atomizer Ohm Meter

Personally I use a vamo.

k thanks. I used it a good amount yesterday and today and keep checking the charge and heat and it is now a little over 4v and hasnt felt hot at all whenever I check it. seems fine. will probably still grab some aw 1600mah IMR's
 

AttyPops

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No this is not a main reason. Stacked batteries are not used with subohm setups, this is not the failure mode of stacked battery mods. Stacked batteries simply don't work with subohm. This is not a subohm issue.

The stacked thing was a sub-topic. I didn't say it was for sub-ohm. And yes, it's the primary reason not to use stacked batteries in a mech (but that's HV vaping as a sub topic. We got off on a battery safety sub-topic, remember?)


Also, it's time to kill your 21 amp figure, you will never get 4.2v through the coil from a single 18650 with a .2 ohm setup. Regardless of that, the basically bog-standard AW 1600 18650 is rated for 22A continuous. There's nothing special about these amp figures per se.

I said that already. In the original post. Sheesh! The 21 amps was stated as ideal/theoretical.
The "special" part is pushing it too far. You keep insisting that .1 or .2 ohms is the same as .8 ohms...ie "nothing special". I'm saying people push it too far, IMHO. That means there's not comfortable margin of error. No safety factor.
And if they have cheaper batteries it could lead to trouble. So just going around touting it (now only with certain batteries...qualified later) is not a good idea.
Besides I did say A) I didn't have time to look up specs and it was only an example and
B) You'd need to discuss specific make/model of battery anyway and I was talking to the general concept
............
 

WCSR

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Low ohm measuring devices are available that would work with this kind of accuracy, but the price tag would be prohibitive for our simple purposes.
I actually use a calibrated milliohm meter to measure my coils. Sometimes, working in an avionics shop has its advantages. Otherwise, I couldn't imagine spending $400+ for such a task.
 

dr g

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You keep insisting that .1 or .2 ohms is the same as .8 ohms..

Never once said or suggested that. You came closer to suggesting that. Which is the issue I have with anti-subohm in general, it is more interested in attacking a certain number with no regard for the underlying specifications and design.
 
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WattWick

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To sum up the last 10 pages in the spirit of the original topic:

"Sub-ohm vaping requires you to use appropriate batteries and understand what you're doing, which may be considered a con."

Which might not be a major con considering every vaper should use appropriate batteries and know what they're doing. You might get off easier if you don't build your own coils.
 

Ryedan

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Ryadan,
Thanks, sounds reasonable. What model meter, and would it's cost be within the range of the typical e-cig experimenter?

Model is XL830L. I don't know the manufacturer. Here's a link to one on Bay. It reads the resistance of the test probes as most of the cheap meters do, but that's because it doesn't have a 'zero' feature. It is very repeatable. I set ohms and touch the probes together. Check the ohms shown after it settles down and subtract that from any readings I take afterwards. I don't think it's too expensive to get past this issue, but it works for me and I'm comfortable with it. As usual, YMMV.
 
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