SvoёMesto KAYFUN 4

[HBcorpse]

Just visited svoemesto website...

The above quoted pictured P3 adapter doesn't look like the one on their website:
Does it?
View attachment 406041

No, it does not.
I'm failing to see how Provape is at fault here?
Did they manufacture ONE P3 that won't fit ONE KF4-P3 adapter, even though the KF4-P3 was supposed to be modeled after the P3's new connection?

Astro/Jim, please repost your car and tires analogy. It is practically the only thing that makes sense in this debate.

Another analogy:
Apple just made the iPhone 6 & 6+.
My neighbor got a new iPhone 6.
He bought a case for it.
The case did not fit.
So, clearly, it's Apple's fault.
They obviously made a manufacturing mistake on this one iPhone 6.

 

[Moonbogg]

After putting in time and effort to inspect the parts, draw a layout, observe the difference in P3 connectors floating around, I have personally concluded that the P3 connector had revision changes done and some of the parts made it out the door before the revisions could be implemented, or something very similar happened. The Provari itself seems to be consistent across the board. Not a big deal. I'm just glad people understand what is causing the gap issue. I will hunt down a new adapter when they are in stock locally so I can try them out. Case closed for me.

Also, what's even more clear to me than the adapter issue, is the fact that several people have an axe to grind against Provape. That's clear now as well.

 

[BNEAT]

Just visited svoemesto website...

The above quoted pictured P3 adapter doesn't look like the one on their website:
Does it?
View attachment 406041

You do realize that is a computer generated drawing, right?

 

[HBcorpse]

After putting in time and effort to inspect the parts, draw a layout, observe the difference in P3 connectors floating around, I have personally concluded that the P3 connector had revision changes done and some of the parts made it out the door before the revisions could be implemented, or something very similar happened. The Provari itself seems to be consistent across the board. Not a big deal. I'm just glad people understand what is causing the gap issue. I will hunt down a new adapter when they are in stock locally so I can try them out. Case closed for me.

Also, what's even more clear to me than the adapter issue, is the fact that several people have an axe to grind against Provape. That's clear now as well.

Just for clarity...when you say P3 connector, do you mean the part made by SvoëMesto? Or the physical end cap on the P3?

 

[Moonbogg]

Just for clarity...when you say P3 connector, do you mean the part made by SvoëMesto? Or the physical end cap on the P3?

Adapter made by Svoemesto.

 

[Mtek]

Don't know if this helps, v4 standard base with p3 ring/510 adapter and a v4 provari base.

Warning, not Qorax quality pics....

 

[BNEAT]

No, it does not.
I'm failing to see how Provape is at fault here?
Did they manufacture ONE P3 that won't fit ONE KF4-P3 adapter, even though the KF4-P3 was supposed to be modeled after the P3's new connection?

Astro/Jim, please repost your car and tires analogy. It is practically the only thing that makes sense in this debate.

Another analogy:
Apple just made the iPhone 6 & 6+.
My neighbor got a new iPhone 6.
He bought a case for it.
The case did not fit.
So, clearly, it's Apple's fault.
They obviously made a manufacturing mistake on this one iPhone 6.

You're absolutely right. But you fail to see that it is difficult to produce a part that will fit Provapes design, as simple as it may seem. Even Svoemesto has failed, and surely we can all agree on what kind of craftsmanship they are known for.

 

[HBcorpse]

You're absolutely right. But you fail to see that it is difficult to produce a part that will fit Provapes design, as simple as it may seem. Even Svoemesto has failed, and surely we can all agree on what kind of craftsmanship they are known for.

True enough. And I'll give you everything. You're right.
However, it's just odd to think that Provape's design (or manufacturing) could be to blame, when Aspire got it right...
And surely we can all agree on what kind of craftsmanship THEY are known for...(not to knock them, but they aren't exactly Provape or SvoëMesto level craftsmanship...ya know? But then again, their P3 adapter fits...)

 

[BNEAT]

True enough. And I'll give you everything. You're right.
However, it's just odd to think that Provape's design (or manufacturing) could be to blame, when Aspire got it right...
And surely we can all agree on what kind of craftsmanship THEY are known for...(not to knock them, but they aren't exactly Provape or SvoëMesto level craftsmanship...ya know? But then again, their P3 adapter fits...)

The Aspire may fit, but I wouldn't say they got it right: there are literally only 2 full threads engaged!

I assume the idea behind the P3 connection was to improve on the weak and lowly 510. So far we've got a clearo with an even weaker P3, and a high end that misses by a 1/4 turn. I won't consider the Provape P3/510 ring. (If manufacturers copied that method, it would add at least one more part, plus another contact point, so it's not a viable method except for adaption purposes.)

 

[HBcorpse]

The Aspire may fit, but I wouldn't say they got it right: there are literally only 2 full threads engaged!

I assume the idea behind the P3 connection was to improve on the weak and lowly 510. So far we've got a clearo with an even weaker P3, and a high end that misses by a 1/4 turn. I won't consider the Provape P3/510 ring. (If manufacturers copied that method, it would add at least one more part, plus another contact point, so it's not a viable method except for adaption purposes.)

No, but all they'd have to do is copy the bottom 2-2.5 threads of the Provape 510 adapter...

 

[Mtek]

I'm no engineer, but wouldn't the much larger provari threads offer more friction/stability than a 510 regardless of 2 1/2 threads? Seems less likely to strip and rock solid.

I have no horse in this race, just trying to learn.

 

[Moonbogg]

I'm no engineer, but wouldn't the much larger provari threads offer more friction/stability than a 510 regardless of 2 1/2 threads? Seems less likely to strip and rock solid.

I have no horse in this race, just trying to learn.

Correct. The important thing is surface area of thread engagement. Also thread diameter plays a significant role in how much the atty can wobble while mounted. You can see this by taking a pencil and making a seesaw by placing another pencil under the middle of it. See how much the pencil rocks back and forth? Now do the same with a much shorter pencil. It will rock much more and shift angularly more because the ends of the pencil are closer to the axis. 510 threads are comparable to a short pencil while the P3 thread is comparable to a long pencil.
Also, there is probably enough thread surface area with only 2 threads to rip the Provari top cap clean off the device. Nothing wrong with the P3 design. Lets just say those 2 threads are way stronger than they need to be.

If you want to know which is stronger and by how much, google "tensile stress area calculator" and play with those to see for yourself. Use a standard pitch to make it easy, like 1.5mm.

 

[BNEAT]

No, but all they'd have to do is copy the bottom 2-2.5 threads of the Provape 510 adapter...

The threads are 100% perfect in the Svoemesto, they just need to increase the champher to clear Provapes screw up.

I'm no engineer, but wouldn't the much larger provari threads offer more friction/stability than a 510 regardless of 2 1/2 threads? Seems less likely to strip and rock solid.

I have no horse in this race, just trying to learn.

If this connection stays exclusive to the Provari, then yes, 2.5 threads are probably better than any 510 because the higher end toppers are probably going to be made from decent material at closer tolerances. But if for some reason everything switches to the P3 connection, then 2.5 poorly machined threads in substandard material would be just as bad as a 510.

 

[AstroTurf]

You do realize that is a computer generated drawing, right?

Do you really think that?!?

That Svoemesto would not put a real picture of a product on it's website?

Really?!?

 

[AstroTurf]

The threads are 100% perfect in the Svoemesto, they just need to increase the champher to clear Provapes screw up.



If this connection stays exclusive to the Provari, then yes, 2.5 threads are probably better than any 510 because the higher end toppers are probably going to be made from decent material at closer tolerances. But if for some reason everything switches to the P3 connection, then 2.5 poorly machined threads in substandard material would be just as bad as a 510.

Again, I say, See pictures on post 3001.

 

[BNEAT]

Do you really think that?!?

That Svoemesto would not put a real picture of a product on it's website?

Really?!?

There ARE real pictures on their site, but that's not one them. Maybe you should go have another look.

Again, I say, See pictures on post 3001.

Here's an idea: spend 40 years in this business, then you can come on here and explain why the threads on the left cannot be machined onto the part on the right.

 

[AstroTurf]

There ARE real pictures on their site, but that's not one them. Maybe you should go have another look.



Here's an idea: spend 40 years in this business, then you can come on here and explain why the threads on the left cannot be machined onto the part on the right.

Heres a link to the real pix on their site...

Kayfun V4 -P3 Connector - Kayfun V4

As far as 40 years? Do we really need to go there? Common Sense rules the day here, along with some observation and logic.

 

[Randall.K]

Heres a link to the real pix on their site...

Kayfun V4 -P3 Connector - Kayfun V4

That is a 3D render mate.

 

[AstroTurf]

That is a 3D render mate.

If so... It is a shame then that even Svoemesto couldn't get it right.

I'll still stand by and say that all have not failed.

Perhaps they farmed the work on the P3 adapter out?!?

I do not know, Jim

 

[rcbell.N51]

If so... It is a shame then that even Svoemesto couldn't get it right.

I'll still stand by and say that all have not failed.

Perhaps they farmed the work on the P3 adapter out?!?

I do not know, Jim

Yea, it does seem like most people do not have this issue. I will say though, that the ProVape connection seems consistent. I've now tried my KF4 P3 adapter on four different Provaris (2 P3, 1 P3 Beta, and 1 Ti Mini). Same gap on all of them.