SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL)

[tc1]

There are plenty of tests/data sheets on the Samsung 25Rs around the net. It's a perfectly acceptable battery for many devices, including the SXMini.

The SXMini won't fire anything under .15 ohms. So even at its' current max wattage you would only be pulling 20amps continuous. The Sammy 25R won't overheat on that discharge and even if it did, the SXMini would not allow it to fire.

 

[peraspera]

I don't use internet posts as a justification to exceed a battery manufacturer's continuous amp rating nor to use a battery with less amps than what the device's manufacturer recommends even though I never push my devices' power limits other than for brief testing. Others may choose to do otherwise but they should know that this is what they are doing.

 

[tc1]

I don't use internet posts as a justification to exceed a battery manufacturer's continuous amp rating nor to use a battery with less amps than what the device's manufacturer recommends even though I never push my devices' power limits other than for brief testing. Others may choose to do otherwise but they should know that this is what they are doing.

Well frankly that's a little silly. I'd much rather go by TESTED data over Manufacturer specs. Why? Because Manufacturer specs can ... and have been proven at times to be inflated. By your logic the poster would be better off with an Efest 35amp. Yet through TESTING we know that the Efect 35amp is not a continuous rating, despite Efest's labeling and spec sheet.

Bottom line ... the Sammy 25R is one of the best batteries in the market right now. It's been tested by the manufacturer to safely pulse for 6 seconds at over 50 amps without going thermal. Others have performed their own tests that once again, prove it to be one of the best options out there right now.

And despite all that, the SXMini has the SX350 chip. Which does real-time monitoring of the battery and thermals. If by chance you get an inferior cell with lower discharge ability the SXMini isn't going to allow you to use it. That's one of the major selling points of high-end regulated chips to begin with.

P.S. There is NO current 18650 battery that 100% guarantees continuous amp output of 30 amps ... not even the VTC 5, which actually got outperformed by the Samsung 25R in high continuous amp testing.

 

[peraspera]

I specifically posted that I do not use internet posts as a basis for exceeding battery manufacturer specs or using batteries with less amps than a device's manufacturer recommends. Since I am not willing to write checks to people for any potential damage doing differently might cause I recommend others stay within published specs.

I personally have never seen pulse ratings mentioned by any device manufacturer as something to consider as far as battery recommendations so there seems no reason to do so.

Regulated chips, even good ones like the YiHi SX350 series carry the small potential of failing in very unhappy ways. Effective safety practices are all about layers of protection. Pushing battery specs removes one of of those layers.

 

[Croak]

And there are no standards for what amp rating a mod maker specs either..are they referring to pulse or continuous? I mean, c'mon, even Vapor Shark adds to the confusion, calling the LG HE2 they've soldered into their new DNA40 box a 35a battery.

 

[Cotay]

And there are no standards for what amp rating a mod maker specs either..are they referring to pulse or continuous? I mean, c'mon, even Vapor Shark adds to the confusion, calling the LG HE2 they've soldered into their new DNA40 box a 35a battery.

Exactly...my rDNA40 with the provided LG HE2 works perfectly fine with my Subtank Mini or any of my RBAs. That said, I do generally use VTC4s with my SXMini just to be on the safe side. But I have on occasion used 25Rs and HE2s with no ill effect.

 

[tc1]

Batteries are largely pulsed in ecig application. That is why it's an important spec for us to understand.

If you're wanting to be 100% safe with a high continuous amperage output ... stay away from 18650 Li-Ion and use Li-Po.

The reason most mod makers don't mention pulse is because they'd rather just overshoot their power required in hopes of safety rather than actually torture testing specific models of batteries.

And that's fine because there shouldn't be a problem if the battery is rated higher than their mod's output. Even then there can be a slight chance the cell you use is below battery spec.

I always recommend people educate themselves on battery safety and the performance tests of the batteries they want to use. Going by manufacturer spec and recommendation can provide a false sense of security, especially if those numbers are inflated or in the case of a mod, little to no real world battery testing was done.

 

[dannyben]

I don't use internet posts as a justification...

So what you're saying is that we should listen to anything that you said since it's an internet post???

 

[beez0527]

So what you're saying is that we should listen to anything that you said since it's an internet post???

Actually i believe he said you should educate yourself on battery safety and testing..

 

[Technonut]

I posted this in the large SXmini thread, and thought it would be relevant here:

Hmmmmm... I saw this pic over at the French forum, and noticed that the temperature setting has taken the place of the resistance reading on the display when in Joules mode.. I wonder how one will check resistance without needing to go into the wattage mode?

I just received an answer to this from a Varitube rep (They have a close relationship with YiHi).. Forum rules state I can't directly copy e-mails / PM's, but here's the info:

When in Joules mode, holding the 2 up / down buttons down will provide a 3 decimal place resistance reading of the coil. This must be done when switching to Joules mode. The coil needs to be cool.. hold down the up / down buttons.. the resistance is taken, and the board is now calibrated to limit the temperature set-point.

Some additional info:

The Joules should be thought of as a power setting and independent from temperature. To explain, one can run full power and limit the temperature. Joules and Temperature need to be set, or just max out Joules and forget it. But with the combination you actually have true variable temperature, which is different than what's currently available. At the same time, the Joules must be set at least high enough to reach the temperature setting too. But, the SX350 J will not limit power at the expense of temperature. It limits the temperature, so on the display, the Joules setting never varies, while the temperature setting is always flickering around the set point.

Sounds interesting.. I'm happy to have an SXminiJ M Class on pre-order, despite the fact that I hate pre-orders, and usually avoid them.

 

[Vapenstein]

I'm excited about this device. I have a friend at work who is a newish vaper who bought an SX Mini based on my enthusiasm. I have to look at that thing sitting on his desk charging every day when I stop by his office before lunch to bs. I tell him he shouldn't leave it out in the open, it might disappear.

He's thrilled with his, says it has displayed no unexpected behavior. I'm a little jealous but I'm glad he likes it so much.

The build quality of the enclosure is super. It's smaller than you'd think, and I kind of like that the M class is just slightly larger than the original as I have large-ish hands, plus the larger screen is a bonus too which means I may not have to reach for my reading glasses to change a setting

 

[JohnD0406]

There are plenty of tests/data sheets on the Samsung 25Rs around the net. It's a perfectly acceptable battery for many devices, including the SXMini.

I use an LG HE2 - both are excellent choices, and will handle the maximum current draw of the SXmini, and that's the continuous rating, not the pulsed rating. I like to not exceed the continuous rating, as that's the only standardized measurement. Pulsed ratings depend on the duration of the pulse and the duration of the rest period between pulses, therefore can be tailored to look better.

The SXMini won't fire anything under .15 ohms. So even at its' current max wattage you would only be pulling 20amps continuous. The Sammy 25R won't overheat on that discharge and even if it did, the SXMini would not allow it to fire.

Much to many people's surprise, the current draw from the battery has absolutely nothing to do with the atomizer ohms - that's a mechanical consideration, not a regulated consideration. What does matter in a regulated mod, which does not matter in a mechanical mod, is the battery voltage. The lower the battery voltage, the MORE current the battery needs to provide. In a mechanical mod, as voltage drops, so does current draw; in a regulated mod, as battery voltage drops, the mod still boosts the voltage to maintain your settings, therefore at the battery, when volts go down, amps go up.

The SXmini cuts off the battery at 3.3V, however you could let that creep up .04 or so, do a long fire, and have the resting voltage below 3.0V. Here's what that looks like at 60W:

4.2V @ 60W = 15.87A
3.3V @ 60W = 20.2A <-- battery cutoff in the SXmini, interesting numbers huh.
3.0V @ 60W = 22.0A
2.6V @ 60W = 25.6A (20A/60W @ the atomizer, battery under firing load, resting at 3.0V)

So, technically these are still considered pulses, but some batteries are rated for 1-second pulses, and worse, most don't state the duty cycle - you don't know how long the pulse and resting period are. One lesson to be learned here is that if you have a 20A battery installed, and are using 60W, and the SXmini cuts you off a 3.3V, don't try to get those last few puffs in as battery voltage creeps up every few minutes - you're riding a fine line at that point.

Now you wonder why YiHi recommends at least a 20A battery, and limited the SXmini to 60W? Numbers are very telling...

 

[peraspera]

...Now you wonder why YiHi recommends at least a 20A battery, and limited the SXmini to 60W? Numbers are very telling...

The SX Mini M class uses the Yihi SX350J chip. YiHi specs for the SX350J states 25 amp not 20 amp batteries are required, lines 8 and 20 for single battery mode as well as line 28 for dual battery mode

 

[JohnD0406]

The SX Mini M class uses the Yihi SX350J chip. YiHi specs for the SX350J states 25 amp not 20 amp batteries are required, lines 8 and 20 for single battery mode as well as line 28 for dual battery mode

Those calculations are based on the efficiency of the mod, so perhaps the J chip is less efficient. Another reason for a higher amp rating would be a higher wattage limit, but I believe it's still 60W. My bet would be due to the lower resistance allowance for the NI200 wire, and the ability to use it in "mechanical mode"/passthrough.

 

[peraspera]

Specs for the 50 watt Yihiecigar SX350 chip as well as the 60 watt single battery/120 watt dual battery YiHiEcigar SX350 mini chip state 25 amp batteries as a requirement.

I'm highly disinclined to second guess manufacturer battery requirements. IMR 18650 30A Orbtronic SX30 Ultra High Drain Hybrid Rechargeable Battery and 18650 Sony US18650VTC4 2100mAh High Discharge Flat Top are 30 amp continuous batteries. Both Orbtronic and Illumination Supply are reliable battery vendors.

 

[KTMRider]

Specs for the 50 watt Yihiecigar SX350 chip as well as the 60 watt single battery/120 watt dual battery YiHiEcigar SX350 mini chip state 25 amp batteries as a requirement.

I'm highly disinclined to second guess manufacturer battery requirements. IMR 18650 30A Orbtronic SX30 Ultra High Drain Hybrid Rechargeable Battery and 18650 Sony US18650VTC4 2100mAh High Discharge Flat Top are 30 amp continuous batteries. Both Orbtronic and Illumination Supply are reliable battery vendors.

Both are good batteries but mods do not require continuous amps. Most burst ratings are for 30-60 seconds depending on which specs the manufacturers go by. LG and Samsung 20a batteries are good for 35a burst for 60 sec but have been tested to 40a continuous with no ill effects. It might shorten the life of the battery at those discharge rates but the battery will not explode or melt down.

 

[railz68]

I have the sx mini m class on preorder, and I want to have safety above performance. So reading the last few posts, and the spec sheet. Can i take this to mean 25A and up ?. Or 25A only.

In Toronto here, and we don't have the largest selection of makes of batteries. These are what i had in mind Efest IMR18650 35AMP Chemically Safe Li-ion 3.7V 2500mAh

I don't build low ohm coils, the 1.0-1.2 ohm that's in the Lemo has been great, and I'm planning to sticking within this zone of ohms.

 

[JohnD0406]

Can i take this to mean 25A and up ?. Or 25A only.

25A or more - more is always OK, and usually better.

These are what i had in mind

I would steer clear of the Efest line. They're re-wraps that have been tested to be all over the place as far as quality and specs go. Stick with a good name brand like Sony, LG, Samsung...

I don't build low ohm coils, the 1.0-1.2 ohm that's in the Lemo has been great, and I'm planning to sticking within this zone of ohms.

In a regulate mod, the coil resistance doesn't matter so much (except that it does affect your vape quality). What does matter is how much power you plan to use from the regulated mod. 60W at 3.3V on the SXmini will demand 20A from the battery. If you only use 15W, you'll be nowhere near the 20A. YiHi's battery rating is only to cover you up to the maximum the mod can handle, so if you only ever use 15W, a 10A battery would be perfectly fine. Better to be safe than sorry though.

 

[Moonbogg]

Is 60 watts enough to get a good thick vape from a dual coil dripper? Say dual 26ga micros at 1ohm each for a total of .5ohm? I know some people drip single coil at like 40 watts so I was a little concerned. I only tried dripping once with single 28ga 1.5ohm coil at 18watts and hardly got anything off it. It was terrible.

 

[SavePaperVapor]

Is 60 watts enough to get a good thick vape from a dual coil dripper? Say dual 26ga micros at 1ohm each for a total of .5ohm? I know some people drip single coil at like 40 watts so I was a little concerned. I only tried dripping once with single 28ga 1.5ohm coil at 18watts and hardly got anything off it. It was terrible.

More than enough