Thanks. Yeah its from jwrap. Its really easy..just line them up by the edges and slowly apply the rest.
SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL)
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Thanks. Yeah its from jwrap. Its really easy..just line them up by the edges and slowly apply the rest.
OK my 26awg didn't get here and decided I needed to recoil one after a week so I took some of you guys advice and wrapped 28awg 5 wraps. Came out at .068 that's close enough I think. I am going through my break in period now but will let you know if it is really better then .08
I have one from February (gold plated, Celsius / fahrenheit and two weeks after receiving it, the lock feature was announced) and it doesn't have any TC issues.
Speaking of which, I'm going to try to explain, in my view, how Evolv's refinement works and why it appears to give problems the sx doesn't seem to have. I'm hated by the Evolv fan boys and I already was bashed on this thread for not owning a sx so, basically, everyone hates me which makes me sort of unbiased
The easiest way to understand refinement is to imagine a fresh built atty like the erlkonigin (solid positive pin, bottom air draw, simple design). Imagine that the resistance of a particular coil is 0.22.
You place the atty on top of a dna and it reads 0.22. You can place it on top of a sx and it also reads 0.22
This would be the ideal situation in a perfect world. Thing is... This isn't a perfect world. The dna assumes that maybe the user isn't that good at following instructions and the atty might not be at the same temperature as the device or maybe the user didn't screwed it in right the first time. So what does the dna do? It's going to start rechecking the atty from time to time (refinement) just to make sure the user didn't screwed up. The sx, on the other hand, assumes that the user did what he was told to do and doesn't perform any refinement.
Now if refinement is so great, why are tons of people complaining about it changing the vape experience? Well here comes the wonky part:
Assuming that the real atty resistance is 0.22, during first coupling, the coil might have been read at 0.23. No problem, the dna will refine it to 0.22 after a few hours and once the temp is adjusted accordingly, everything should be great. The big problem is that some resistance might temporarily creep in. It's not a real increase of resistance of the coil per se but rather an apparent increase due to many factors.
For example, on the erlkonigin, the bottom draw makes the positive pin of the mod exposed to dampness and air which will oxidize the pin with time or some dampness of the vape will creep between both pins. What consequences does this have?
Well, at rest the dna will think the resistance is now somehow higher, let's say 0.24 (real case example of an erlk sitting for 48h on a mod). However, once you fire the atty, the apparent extra resistance will dissappear and suddently, the coil reads lower than the dna is expecting (0.22 instead of 0.24). This happens so fast, the dna now thinks the coil is cooler than it really is so it rams more watts hoping to get to the preset temperature. Problem is that in reality the coil overshoots and suddently is much hotter than it should.
The sx doesn't know anything about added dampness or oxidation so it just assumes the locked initial value and acts according to that. Since most creeping resistance is, in fact, apparent resistance, the atty actually gets to its correct temperature.
Which system is better?
Mismatched atty + no creeping over time = dna
Matched atty + creeping resistance = sx mini m
Mismatched atty + creeping resistance = none of them
Matched atty + no creeping resistance = both
In the end the ideal would be a combo of both technologies. The board would refine until we would find the correct resistance. After that, we could have an option to lock the found resistance.
Sorry for the long post. I hope it is understandable.
Tony
I don't hate you...no, no...I like you very much...I have one from February (gold plated, Celsius / fahrenheit and two weeks after receiving it, the lock feature was announced) and it doesn't have any TC issues.
Speaking of which, I'm going to try to explain, in my view, how Evolv's refinement works and why it appears to give problems the sx doesn't seem to have. I'm hated by the Evolv fan boys and I already was bashed on this thread for not owning a sx so, basically, everyone hates me which makes me sort of unbiased
The easiest way to understand refinement is to imagine a fresh built atty like the erlkonigin (solid positive pin, bottom air draw, simple design). Imagine that the resistance of a particular coil is 0.22.
You place the atty on top of a dna and it reads 0.22. You can place it on top of a sx and it also reads 0.22
This would be the ideal situation in a perfect world. Thing is... This isn't a perfect world. The dna assumes that maybe the user isn't that good at following instructions and the atty might not be at the same temperature as the device or maybe the user didn't screwed it in right the first time. So what does the dna do? It's going to start rechecking the atty from time to time (refinement) just to make sure the user didn't screwed up. The sx, on the other hand, assumes that the user did what he was told to do and doesn't perform any refinement.
Now if refinement is so great, why are tons of people complaining about it changing the vape experience? Well here comes the wonky part:
Assuming that the real atty resistance is 0.22, during first coupling, the coil might have been read at 0.23. No problem, the dna will refine it to 0.22 after a few hours and once the temp is adjusted accordingly, everything should be great. The big problem is that some resistance might temporarily creep in. It's not a real increase of resistance of the coil per se but rather an apparent increase due to many factors.
For example, on the erlkonigin, the bottom draw makes the positive pin of the mod exposed to dampness and air which will oxidize the pin with time or some dampness of the vape will creep between both pins. What consequences does this have?
Well, at rest the dna will think the resistance is now somehow higher, let's say 0.24 (real case example of an erlk sitting for 48h on a mod). However, once you fire the atty, the apparent extra resistance will dissappear and suddently, the coil reads lower than the dna is expecting (0.22 instead of 0.24). This happens so fast, the dna now thinks the coil is cooler than it really is so it rams more watts hoping to get to the preset temperature. Problem is that in reality the coil overshoots and suddently is much hotter than it should.
The sx doesn't know anything about added dampness or oxidation so it just assumes the locked initial value and acts according to that. Since most creeping resistance is, in fact, apparent resistance, the atty actually gets to its correct temperature.
Which system is better?
Mismatched atty + no creeping over time = dna
Matched atty + creeping resistance = sx mini m
Mismatched atty + creeping resistance = none of them
Matched atty + no creeping resistance = both
In the end the ideal would be a combo of both technologies. The board would refine until we would find the correct resistance. After that, we could have an option to lock the found resistance.
Sorry for the long post. I hope it is understandable.
Tony
*pets tchavei*
...yessss, very much indeed
THE WGU CLUB
Card Carrying Member/Co-Founder
Varitube usually ships the same day if you order in the morning.I have a jwrap on mine now. The thing I lost was the "SX Mini" writing. What I gained is a better grip, and, an end to juicy fingers on the mod. IOW, I stopped worrying.
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Any of you guys got a 5 wrap 28awg on yours. If so what temp do you run at and what J
Some how I replied to the wrong message. It was to the guy that wanted to know about fast shipping.
Let me add in another factor that makes the refinement suck...not only is it taking a snapshot,of the resistance, but the temperature of the board as well...so what if you have it on a mod that sinks heat away from the atty fast, effectively lowering the resistance, but also keeping the board temp a few ° above room temperature, an also a few ° above the coil temp at that resistance. It now locks on to an inaccurate target.I have one from February (gold plated, Celsius / fahrenheit and two weeks after receiving it, the lock feature was announced) and it doesn't have any TC issues.
Speaking of which, I'm going to try to explain, in my view, how Evolv's refinement works and why it appears to give problems the sx doesn't seem to have. I'm hated by the Evolv fan boys and I already was bashed on this thread for not owning a sx so, basically, everyone hates me which makes me sort of unbiased
The easiest way to understand refinement is to imagine a fresh built atty like the erlkonigin (solid positive pin, bottom air draw, simple design). Imagine that the resistance of a particular coil is 0.22.
You place the atty on top of a dna and it reads 0.22. You can place it on top of a sx and it also reads 0.22
This would be the ideal situation in a perfect world. Thing is... This isn't a perfect world. The dna assumes that maybe the user isn't that good at following instructions and the atty might not be at the same temperature as the device or maybe the user didn't screwed it in right the first time. So what does the dna do? It's going to start rechecking the atty from time to time (refinement) just to make sure the user didn't screwed up. The sx, on the other hand, assumes that the user did what he was told to do and doesn't perform any refinement.
Now if refinement is so great, why are tons of people complaining about it changing the vape experience? Well here comes the wonky part:
Assuming that the real atty resistance is 0.22, during first coupling, the coil might have been read at 0.23. No problem, the dna will refine it to 0.22 after a few hours and once the temp is adjusted accordingly, everything should be great. The big problem is that some resistance might temporarily creep in. It's not a real increase of resistance of the coil per se but rather an apparent increase due to many factors.
For example, on the erlkonigin, the bottom draw makes the positive pin of the mod exposed to dampness and air which will oxidize the pin with time or some dampness of the vape will creep between both pins. What consequences does this have?
Well, at rest the dna will think the resistance is now somehow higher, let's say 0.24 (real case example of an erlk sitting for 48h on a mod). However, once you fire the atty, the apparent extra resistance will dissappear and suddently, the coil reads lower than the dna is expecting (0.22 instead of 0.24). This happens so fast, the dna now thinks the coil is cooler than it really is so it rams more watts hoping to get to the preset temperature. Problem is that in reality the coil overshoots and suddently is much hotter than it should.
The sx doesn't know anything about added dampness or oxidation so it just assumes the locked initial value and acts according to that. Since most creeping resistance is, in fact, apparent resistance, the atty actually gets to its correct temperature.
Which system is better?
Mismatched atty + no creeping over time = dna
Matched atty + creeping resistance = sx mini m
Mismatched atty + creeping resistance = none of them
Matched atty + no creeping resistance = both
In the end the ideal would be a combo of both technologies. The board would refine until we would find the correct resistance. After that, we could have an option to lock the found resistance.
Sorry for the long post. I hope it is understandable.
Tony
So I started using 26g ni200 on my Lemo 2 with the SX Mini and all I can say is WOW! I'm on a 3.5mm coil with 6 wraps clocking in at .072ohms and it is amazing. With this low resistance with 28g ni200 the flavor and vapor production just wasn't there for me. This is a totally different ballgame now.
Yep the flavor isn't there with my trial 5 wrap 28awg like it was with the 7 wrap even though the resistance was .085 it had a better taste. I am sure that when I get the 26 it will be. Not sure if I will go up and wrap another 7 wrap or just put up with it.
Very thoughtful post. And nobody hates you.
One thing you missed, likely cause you don't yet have both...yet...is the brouhaha about building to "spec" on the SX. Spec being 0.065 to 0.12. (I have yet to go to the lower end but now regularly build in the 0.11- 0.12 range.)
Down low there is little room for variance. Down low I can swap the atty from SX to 40, and back, with almost no concern about accuracy of resistance...or consequent change (read unexpected change) in quality of the vape.
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Thanks for the kind words and that this method is working out for you. You posted a great observation and charting on the importance of baselining correctly. It just shows how important to let the whole unit settle down to ambient temperature. I am amazed though that it actually took 46 mins to completely get there.Thanks for posting this I tried your method on a 0.088 Ω setting the temp at 520º 14J it was topping out at 419º, so I reset my settings to 420º 18J and am very satisfied with the vape with 70VG/30PG liquid. This is the way I set up my temp from now on.
I also wanted to share with you the point you made about the ambient temperature before you set your baseline resistance you made and how important it is. Last night I was vaping on my Sub Tank Mini with the RBA and wanted to build a new coil while watching TV. I built a 5 wrap - 28awg - NI200 - 3mm ID which should have come out to around 0.077 Ω. Remember now, I said I was just vaping on the tank to finish up the juice and I also pulsed the coil to burn off any impurities, so I waited about 10 minutes thinking that would be enough time to cool down and got a set resistance of 0.099 Ω. Looking at the screen I told myself I knew I built the coil correctly so I wanted to see IF the numbers would drop down and how long it would take. I did this test while watching TV and taking a reading every few minutes and was surprised that it took this long.
View attachment 454980
So yes, taking the time to set your baseline resistance is of upmost importance. If your baseline is off everything else will be too.
Gunk city for me too but the flavor seems to be holding up despite the gunk. It could be because we are not heating up these coils like we used to on Kanthal where the red glowing coils would burn all that gunk off.
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