TC: Any reason against it?

[Frenchfry1942]

Any reason FOR TC?

 

[Myk]

Any reason FOR TC?

Assuming it works:
No dry hits or burned wicks. It doesn't matter what the temperature of the air blowing across the coils is or how hard the air blowing across the coils is. You can adjust the temperature to suit the flavor of some liquids.

 

[tara81]

Any reason FOR TC?

I think I read somewhere that TC is safer to vape because you can limit how hot your coil gets, thus eliminating more possibilities of carcingens being inhaled, or something like that. Im no expert I just remember reading about how tootle puffers and old style vape tanks heat up vg and pg so much it produced some toxins, if someone were to chain vape them, it a studied environment..

 

[dripster]

Hi cool post! I will never have the confidence to use a mech mod, but I am curious : how do you go above the CDr safely?

You can't go above the CDR safely. That's because these batteries we use for vaping never are safe to use. It's dangerous to vape on these batteries. These batteries were never designed to be used outside of a fully protected battery pack with a protection circuit. The CDR was picked because it's a reasonable number to recommend to new vapers to start. It was not picked because it is safe. There are no hard and fast numbers that either are safe or are unsafe to vape. It's all shades of gray. Battery safety is all about reducing the risks as much as possible without interfering too much with how we want to vape and without becoming irresponsibly too dangerous trying to push the limits all the way into the extreme. By knowing and understanding the risks we can make informed decisions about the risk level we are willing to accept. It's good to recommend safety. But I feel every vaper should have the right to choose for themselves how they want to vape. Mooch is the battery expert around here. I know some people think many of us take his advice a bit too religiously. But as long as nobody twists his words or selectively chooses his words or abuses any of it in any way, I think his intelligent advice factually is golden, and so are his battery tests. To those who ask how much is safe, the CDR is what we recommend. After that, we just let these people find their own path.

I never knew mech mods gave more flavor, now it makes sense why people use them I recently discovered mesh coils and can finally taste my juice, is it as good of flavor as the new mesh coils coming out?

Not everyone agrees of course about mech mods, but I pretty much swear by them now. Mesh coils are not exactly my bucket of tea, but there used to be a time when mesh was the new hype, until it went away, and not so very long ago it returned again, and, not everyone agrees about the benefit of advanced coil builds such as alien coils, but I like aliens a lot because they're not that hard to make, and the flavor they can produce on a mech IMO is outstanding.

 

[tara81]

You can't go above the CDR safely. That's because these batteries we use for vaping never are safe to use. It's dangerous to vape on these batteries. These batteries were never designed to be used outside of a fully protected battery pack with a protection circuit. The CDR was picked because it's a reasonable number to recommend to new vapers to start. It was not picked because it is safe. There are no hard and fast numbers that either are safe or are unsafe to vape. It's all shades of gray. Battery safety is all about reducing the risks as much as possible without interfering too much with how we want to vape and without becoming irresponsibly too dangerous trying to push the limits all the way into the extreme. By knowing and understanding the risks we can make informed decisions about the risk level we are willing to accept. It's good to recommend safety. But I feel every vaper should have the right to choose for themselves how the want to vape. Mooch is the battery expert around here. I know some people think many of us take his advice a bit too religiously. But as long as nobody twists his words or selectively chooses his words or abuses any of it in any way, I think his intelligent advice factually is golden, and so are his battery tests. To those who ask how much is safe, the CDR is what we recommend. After that, we just let these people find their own path.

Not everyone agrees of course about mech mods, but I pretty much swear by them now. Mesh coils are not exactly my bucket of tea, but there used to be a time when mesh was the new hype, until it went away, and not so very long ago it returned again, and, not everyone agrees about the benefit of advanced coil builds such as alien coils, but I like aliens a lot because they're not that hard to make, and the flavor they can produce on a mech IMO is outstanding.

I tried the rta and rda thing, but still didn't get enough flavor. I'm a flavor junkie , probably because I vape 0 nicotine. But the falcon mesh coil, oh man, flavor! I finally taste my juice , with how it smells ! Even the hadeon rda was dull to me . I used a fused Clapton inside at 0.3 ohms. No idea what an alien is , I should look that up

 

[dripster]

I tried the rta and rda thing, but still didn't get enough flavor. I'm a flavor junkie , probably because I vape 0 nicotine. But the falcon mesh coil, oh man, flavor! I finally taste my juice , with how it smells ! Even the hadeon rda was dull to me . I used a fused Clapton inside at 0.3 ohms. No idea what an alien is , I should look that up

I use RDAs and nothing but RDAs. I'm vaping on a CSMNT with Shawty cap as I'm typing this. RTAs are in some ways more convenient than RDAs, but there's no such thing as free lunch so even the best RTAs still sacrifice some of the flavor. Alien coils are fairly common these days. On a single battery mech a dual coil aliens build using 27g Ni80 for the 3 cores and 36g Ni80 for the alien wrap wire, at 4.5 wraps and 2.5mm inner diameter has my preference, but it is a .11 ohms build so above the CDR of any of the 18650/20650/20700/21700/26650 batteries that we can choose between.

The problem with going above the CDR like that in a mech, aside from the fact I still can't recommend doing so because some people might going to hurt themselves, is if something goes wrong with the mod in such a way that it starts discharging the battery continuously, in which case the battery temperature would keep rising. But if you know the mechanics of your mech inside and out because you took the time to familiarize yourself with the mechanics of your mech, then there are things that you can do to make absolutely perfectly sure that the battery temperature can never ever ever reach very high, like, knowing what to do to stop the mech from auto-firing in the rare event that it does that, also always making sure to always notice it immediately and not start to panic so you can immediately stop it from doing that. And of course avoiding any and all accidental button presses that might occur if not using the mech for some period leaving the mech unattended, whether it be inside your pocket or bag or in a location where you might not notice someone or something doing something to your mech so if in doubt, always remember to always take out the battery. Always. But all of that is in addition to other recommended battery safety guidelines for the mech and for batteries in general so you really need to know what you're doing and that's why I can't recommend going above the CDR. It's because you still need to know what you're doing even if you don't go above the CDR, but the higher you go above the CDR, the bigger the added risk. The lower you go below the CDR, the bigger the added safety.

 

[Myk]

I think I read somewhere that TC is safer to vape because you can limit how hot your coil gets, thus eliminating more possibilities of carcingens being inhaled, or something like that. Im no expert I just remember reading about how tootle puffers and old style vape tanks heat up vg and pg so much it produced some toxins, if someone were to chain vape them, it a studied environment..

That is true and it happens at temperatures many wouldn't taste as burning.

New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

But if someone really doesn't like TC it's a few bad chemicals vs many smoking. It's an extreme safety thing.

 

[tara81]

That is true and it happens at temperatures many wouldn't taste as burning.

New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

But if someone really doesn't like TC it's a few bad chemicals vs many smoking. It's an extreme safety thing.

Well I like to chain vape my 0 nicotine juice because I quit nicotine patch 9 years ago and can't do TC due to extreme nickel allergy so I guess I'm going to be inhaling a few bad chemicals :/ wonder how bad chain vaping 70-80 watt 0.15 mesh coils is

 

[tara81]

I use RDAs and nothing but RDAs. I'm vaping on a CSMNT with Shawty cap as I'm typing this. RTAs are in some ways more convenient than RDAs, but there's no such thing as free lunch so even the best RTAs still sacrifice some of the flavor. Alien coils are fairly common these days. On a single battery mech a dual coil aliens build using 27g Ni80 for the 3 cores and 36g Ni80 for the alien wrap wire, at 4.5 wraps and 2.5mm inner diameter has my preference, but it is a .11 ohms build so above the CDR of any of the 18650/20650/20700/21700/26650 batteries that we can choose between.

The problem with going above the CDR like that in a mech, aside from the fact I still can't recommend doing so because some people might going to hurt themselves, is if something goes wrong with the mod in such a way that it starts discharging the battery continuously, in which case the battery temperature would keep rising. But if you know the mechanics of your mech inside and out because you took the time to familiarize yourself with the mechanics of your mech, then there are things that you can do to make absolutely perfectly sure that the battery temperature can never ever ever reach very high, like, knowing what to do to stop the mech from auto-firing in the rare event that it does that, also always making sure to always notice it immediately and not start to panic so you can immediately stop it from doing that. And of course avoiding any and all accidental button presses that might occur if not using the mech for some period leaving the mech unattended, whether it be inside your pocket or bag or in a location where you might not notice someone or something doing something to your mech so if in doubt, always remember to always take out the battery. Always. But all of that is in addition to other recommended battery safety guidelines for the mech and for batteries in general so you really need to know what you're doing and that's why I can't recommend going above the CDR. It's because you still need to know what you're doing even if you don't go above the CDR, but the higher you go above the CDR, the bigger the added risk. The lower you go below the CDR, the bigger the added safety.

Thanks for explaining that to me! Like I said I am way too paranoid and forgetful to ever try a mech mod, but I was very curious how they work for flavor and I didn't even realize they could get the button stuck on them With 0 protection from that! What do you do if the button gets stuck? Just take the batteries out fast?

 

[BillW50]

I can't use TC because I'm allergic to nickel , stainless steel and probably nichrome also.

Yup, they say about 20% of the population is allergic to nickel. That is why I am so surprised it is so often used for non-resistive leads for coils.

 

[Mowgli]

Well I like to chain vape my 0 nicotine juice because I quit nicotine patch 9 years ago and can't do TC due to extreme nickel allergy so I guess I'm going to be inhaling a few bad chemicals :/ wonder how bad chain vaping 70-80 watt 0.15 mesh coils is

SS430 is almost nickel-free AFAIK
That's what I've been using for over a year.
I like 24g from https://www.zivipf.com/epages/63862298.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/63862298/Categories/Heizdraht/"Edelstahldraht 430"
The TCR is spot on .00138 where it should be and it's clean enough to use right off the spool but I give it a wipe with isopropyl on a vaper towel just because.

 

[BillW50]

... It's dangerous to vape on these batteries. These batteries were never designed to be used outside of a fully protected battery pack with a protection circuit...

Oh not another one of these crappy claims. For Pete's sake, PBusardo did a long video a couple of years ago in how Aspire's battery factory manufactures its cells and how they are manufactured for vapers. And how they are temperature tested for a couple months before being sold to ensure they won't blow up in a vapers face.

 

[BillW50]

Too low of resistance, it takes a lot of wire.

Not really. 15 feet of nickel makes me about 50 coils.

Health questions and nickle allergies including forming nickle allergies from exposure. For me it tastes bad.

Well true, but Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos raised concerns about using any wire for vaping. Especially checking for hotspots and dry burning. But some people continue to do this anyway. So what are you going too do? Then there are concerns about vaping food grade ingredients as well.

 

[BillW50]

Having previously been chastised for downing it, I am tempted to not reply. However, let me just say I personally do not like the flavor of the wire. If you can lay your hands on some Stainless 316 or some Titanium, you might think the same if you tried it. Or maybe not...

Didn't work for me. I tried SS and I still vape with nickel most of the time. But I understand how some don't like the taste and/or allergic to it. I feel the same way about Kanthal. I just don't like that iron taste. I also hate the taste of copper RDAs too.

 

[BillW50]

Sorry, but no, my claim isn't false because I can prove that I can use a custom power curve to make my coils ramp up faster without overheating anything.

It is no secret that high resistive wire ramps up faster. But that means nothing since electronics you can make any wire ramp up faster without overheating. We call this technology.

That's just because each and every single experienced wattage vaper already knows how to avoid getting a dry hit, or else they wouldn't all stick to using wattage mode anyway in the first place.

You can't overheat anything running too high of a resistance anyway in a mech. We call this a cool vape. That is why we boost the cell's voltage in regulated mods. So you can enjoy your high resistance with flavor and vapor.

 

[ScottP]

I have a few things to say.

Nobody really knows about the dangers of SS.

Unless you bought your cookware at the dollar store, it is most likely made of SS. You have heated things on it's surface and consumed them your whole life. If it were dangerous, you'd already be dead. Now here is where some people raise the counter argument "but you don't cook as hot as you vape". Well I use TC at around the same temp range as I cook, so yeah I do.

I like pie. I also like both salt and pepper on my eggs. What does that have to do with anything?

Everyone has their opinions as to what is best, mechs, VV, VW, TC, Replay, etc. and the funny thing is the most common argument FOR any one of those seems to be "if you don't like it the way I do then you did it wrong or you are a .....", which is about the dumbest argument for anything I have ever heard in my life. People have different opinions and reasons for those opinions. Sure they MIGHT have done something wrong, but maybe you did too when trying the other ways or it could just be that they didn't like it.

There is enough "junk science" in this thread to bring Dr. Glantz to an orgasm. No, I am not going to try and point it all out. If you can't spot it, you probably contributed to it.

Somehow it seems someone has lit the fuse on several people's tampons resulting in multiple personal attacks from multiple sides. How is this thread not locked yet? In fact I think I'll get out of here before the whole place explodes. So, good night to all.

Oh and IBTL.

 

[BillW50]

I already know that Ni80 still has a TCR, but it is way too small for TC to work well enough with such a heavy coil build,

Naw... not a problem for a professional. Just ask engineer John at Evolv if you don't believe me.

and besides, for me and how I like to vape, TC simply just sucks regardless of anything, anyway in the first place. At best it vapes the same as wattage mode so the time and effort it took to set it up right is still wasted,

Only true if you don't know what you are doing. But you are far from being alone.

at worst it's an anemic vape that's lacking any kind of punch so even more time is wasted on trying to fix that which is unfixable.

TC is only anemic if you set it up incorrectly, which you obviously did. Or you used a mod that can't do TC well. There are lots of those on the market and generally they are manufactured in China. But don't feel bad, apparently most youtube reviewers can't use TC correctly either.

Further, I have no interest in using Replay, as I barely even use a regulated mod anymore nowadays, and, it's just a matter of personal preference, but I vastly prefer to use my tube mechs because, like I said up thread, I'm with @suprtrkr on this, as the best way for me to control the vape is by eliminating anything and everything that gets in the way of controlling it myself.

Ah... Replay is designed for people who can't setup TC correctly. And all you do is complain how hard TC is for you and how you can't get it to vape right. Well gee wiz... I guess your right, it isn't for you.

And control the vape better with a mech mod? There is no control whatsoever except just on and off. Who are you trying to kid? Want a warmer vape? Start to chain vape. Want a cooler vape? Well let the coils cool down for awhile. That's not professionals call control. But I can understand how simpletons would like to think so.

 

[BillW50]

I have a few things to say.

Unless you bought your cookware at the dollar store, it is most likely made of SS. You have heated things on it's surface and consumed them your whole life. If it were dangerous, you'd already be dead. Now here is where some people raise the counter argument "but you don't cook as hot as you vape". Well I use TC at around the same temp range as I cook, so yeah I do.

I like pie. I also like both salt and pepper on my eggs. What does that have to do with anything?

I cook eggs at 255°F. Cooking eggs at 310°F will only burn the hell out of them. So you vape between 255 to 310°F? Interesting. And there is lots of different kinds of SS. Some are good for cooking and some isn't.

Everyone has their opinions as to what is best, mechs, VV, VW, TC, Replay, etc. and the funny thing is the most common argument FOR any one of those seems to be "if you don't like it the way I do then you did it wrong or you are a .....", which is about the dumbest argument for anything I have ever heard in my life. People have different opinions and reasons for those opinions. Sure they MIGHT have done something wrong, but maybe you did too when trying the other ways or it could just be that they didn't like it.

I don't even give the time of day to those people. But I do say something when someone claims that they don't use TC because TC doesn't work. Or that a mech just vapes better when a regulated can be setup to vape exactly the same. Scope them and use temperature probes or whatever you want to use, both still measure identical. So without the science to backup their claims, I am not buying it.

 

[Eskie]

Seven pages of this and it's still not locked? Guess it's August so the mods are all off on summer vacation.

 

[Vesh]

All I know is that I have been having the BEST TC experience with yihi.. the PWM doesn't bother me at all.. it's completely smooth to keep drawing once temp has been reached.. almost all the others suddenly feel like you are sucking air....
Right now with 420F, 30.4 Joules, MTL Nickel Joyetech 0.25 coil, Ego one mega tank.. I am honestly having the best MTL of my life.. throat hit every time, no burning taste.. I tried it on the DNA, my eleaf(s), joyetech(s), Sigelie Kaos.. they really all gave an awful vape in comparison....and here I am using my "ancient" IPV6X in nickel mode and i am truly thrilled with the vape.. I haven't had this much throat hit in a long time.. so satisfying.
I wish the button was bigger but that's a different story LOL!