TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[Mactavish]

I have been a big proponent of only using enough power to achieve temp and not any more than needed otherwise you will be fighting TC. I learned that a long time ago with the SXM. But in his case with such a low ohm build and his curve badly underachieving TC he may need a big boost. But it is just a guess and he will need to find those magic numbers for his build. I think we all know what is the goal, but at this point it is only a guess to get there.

Indeed "low ohm builds", there are times its unavoidable, dual builds, tight spaces, etc. But it may be time, especially for newcomers to read this post:

TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

My titanium builds have been around .20-.35, and working ok on my accurate devices, but I'm going to try building higher, like .40-.50, just for TC Accuracy reasons.

JALCIDE on ECF Wrote:

But if we do need a rule of thumb, it's just that "the higher the resistance the more accurate".

 

[cigatron]

You do realize that your coil is hotter than 450°. Why are you playing with the TCR and locking in wrong resistances? I just don't understand your need for the mod to report back 450° instead of the real temperature.

I can calibrate my speedometer to read 20 MPH low. If I did I would enjoy driving around at 70 MPH, but the police will still pull me over for driving 90 MPH.

My res is locked .11, that's true res. My tcr is fudged because I don't believe my wire is true Grade 1 Ti, otherwise I would have had something more than an anaemic vape at 420°f. Has to be crap wire if the cold res and tcr are entered correctly but I have to turn my temp up to 520°f for a warm vape..my thinking anyway.
I get that thinking from my Evic VT60 where I had to run true gr1 ti at 490-510f to get a warm vape because it underheated 80-100°f according to testing by others.
Most peeps running Ti here vape in the 420-435 range and say its warm so it stands to reason that something was wrong.

I'll run a wet and a dry cotton test to prove things out but right now I just want to enjoy my new shiny.

 

[JimScotty0]

Built my first build on my new Black Zephyrus 2 dual coil tank. This black atty is a very classy looking and built very well. Dual SpiderSilk Ti 26ga 7/6 spaced wraps using a 6-32 machine screw which comes out to a 2.9mm inner diameter with a SE resistance of .16 ohms, Escribe .166 ohms cold. Running it at 50W with a 70W preheat. Ramps up fast and holds temp well.
A pleasantly warm vape with nice flavor. Cheers to the new Zephyrus 2.

Here are the numbers:

2 pulls for about 7 seconds each.

 

[cigatron]

Built my first build on my new Black Zephyrus 2 dual coil tank. This black atty is a very classy looking and built very well. Dual SpiderSilk Ti 26ga 7/6 spaced wraps using a 6-32 machine screw which comes out to a 2.9mm inner diameter with a SE resistance of .16 ohms, Escribe .166 ohms cold. Running it at 50W with a 70W preheat. Ramps up fast and holds temp well.
A pleasantly warm vape with nice flavor. Cheers to the new Zephyrus 2.

Here are the numbers:
View attachment 518160

2 pulls for about 7 seconds each.
View attachment 518162

I'm getting a nice warm juicy vape at 60w with that exact same build but with kanthal on my Zeph2. 20w seems kinda low.Check your coil legs for tightness?

 

[JimScotty0]

I'm getting a nice warm juicy vape at 60w with that exact same build but with kanthal on my Zeph2. 20w seems kinda low.Check your coil legs for tightness?

Thanks, I will check them again. Afraid to break the wire again with one of the coils though. Running the Case Analyzer right now for the first time with my Reuleaux and the Zephyrus 2 on it so I don't want to disturb that long process.

@cigatron do you like the Zephyrus 2? You are the first person other than myself that has mentioned even having one so far as I believe it was just released. I had it on pre-order for almost a month.

 

[dwcraig1]

I was hoping to mess with mine some more tonight but got up too late to do so, near time to go to work and have to feed the kid yet.

 

[AtmizrOpin]

i still have that twisted dual 26 gauge nife48. ohms out .041, so it's pushing the limits but that's one thing i like about the dna 200. soft limiting. it's kinda funny, i have it set to SE's nife 52/48 csv, 75 watts, 470°F 100 watt preheat and after i take a draw and exhale i can take another draw in succession without pressing the fire button and get a nice pull, lol. there's so much coil mass and it stays hot enough even after a few seconds of releasing the fire button.

 

[dwcraig1]

I'll have to give that a try.

 

[owenshadbolt]

Hey All,

Just got my order of 28AWG SS 430 from Unkamen the other day and have been having some fun experimenting a bit...

First off though, for those of us outside the US and the EU, Unkamen seem to be a reliable source for some of these wires. Also their shipping times are reasonable (Nothing like SlowTech or rather NoTech!) Got my order here in Perth, Western Australia in just shy of two weeks.

Background; I have a Vaporshark RDNA30 that I shoehorned a DNA 40 chip into and a VS RDNA200 (unmodified). I have read most if not all of this thread and I thought, maybe if I reduce the number of wraps on my coils, to keep the ohms below the 1.0 ohm TC cutoff for the DNA 40, I might just be able to have one wire to rule them ALLLLL (insert evil laughter). Generally I build with 30AWG straight wire, 10 wrap single coil (very plain jane). Recently I tried some SS 317L and was really pleased with the results. Very easy to work with as well as having better rigidity once coiled and installed. I also liked the higher resistance. The downside though was I ended up having two sets of tanks, one with NI200 for the DNA40 and one with the SS for use on the DNA200.

Enter SS 430 (stage right)... I reduced the number of wraps to seven and can now use all of my tanks on both mods with very little noticable difference in experience between them. In the last 48Hrs the DNA40 has popped out of TC mode two or three times but has gone back to TC mode very quickly. Also only seems to happen with one tank.

I'm finding that an offset of 200-220F is working well on the DNA40, i.e. if I am using a given tank at 440F on the DNA200 then I start with the DNA40 around 200-220F.

Thank you to everyone on here. I have learned a lot, that finally gave me the confidence to try some other wires (Shame that @TheBloke doesn't seem to be around anymore). Now that I have tried SS don't think I'd ever go back to NI200.

PS. Just wondering does anyone else really taste it when the wick even starts to go dry, despite having TC?

 

[BigEgo]

Hey All,

Just got my order of 28AWG SS 430 from Unkamen the other day and have been having some fun experimenting a bit...

SNIP

I have some 430 and some 317L on order from Unkamen right now. I'm anxious to experiment.

As for "tasting the metal" I do indeed with titanium if I am getting close to a dry hit. Just a hint of that metal aroma. I have not experimented with SS yet so I can't say on that.

Also, what happened to "TheBloke?" Did he disappear or did he announce his retirement?

 

[gorman]

@vapealone in your Google Sheets file, the resistance displayed for 1 metre of material is calculated on what wire diameter? I don't seem to find it anywhere and I see strange values (too low?). I'm referring to the p(T) tab, which seems to me the most intuitive for understanding why Ni200 is not the best material for TC (quite the contrary, it appears). Thanks for this awesome tool you're sharing, btw.

 

[owenshadbolt]

@BigEgo, Don't know that it's tasting the metal per se. I've noticed this with all the wires I've used so far, but now that you mention it I have probably experienced this more with SS than any other. Hard to say cause I only use tanks (and its not an experience I'm keen to replicate).

My theory till now, was that I was tasting the juice just starting to crack and that that also was why TC vaping made such a massive difference for me. Or maybe I just need to do a dry cotton burn test!

I have one more tank I want to change over to SS 430 so I'll do that dry cotton test tonight at the same time. Let you know what happens.

 

[vapealone]

@vapealone in your Google Sheets file, the resistance displayed for 1 metre of material is calculated on what wire diameter? I don't seem to find it anywhere and I see strange values (too low?). I'm referring to the p(T) tab, which seems to me the most intuitive for understanding why Ni200 is not the best material for TC (quite the contrary, it appears). Thanks for this awesome tool you're sharing, btw.

I have used SI (derived) dimension there for that is what you can find in general (non vape related) data source.
In this case μΩ*m= Ω*m*10^-6= Ω*m^2/m*10^-6= Ω*mm^2/m
Means: resistance shown belongs to a 1 meter long piece of material with a cross sectional area of 1mm^2.
If the material happens to have circular cross section than the diameter would be 2*sqrt(1/Pi)=1.128mm


In terms of Ni 200, there are quite a few things people doesn't like it for. E.g. it has quite low resistance that can easily be a huge disadvantage if you are not into high gauge high wrap count coils, just to name one.
However, if it works for you go for it

 

[jazzvaper]

@vapealone Now that you've explained that bit of "magic" please do a bit of math to give a ROUGH approximation of unregulated to TC vaping in regard to temperature.

For example, I am perfectly content with both a 0.18 dual coil at 450 F 70 Watts and a 0.38 dual at 38 to 46 Watts (4.2 volts to 3.8 volts from Ohms Law).

Can you GUESSTIMATE the temperature of the unregulated Vape? I take it for granted there are more variables that's why I said rough and guesstimate.

I was going to put you under oath by PM but believe others would also benefit from your response...

Thanks!

ETA: Obviously a temperature probe would give a definitive, scientific answer.

 

[vapealone]

@vapealone Now that you've explained that bit of "magic" please do a bit of math to give a ROUGH approximation of unregulated to TC vaping in regard to temperature.

For example, I am perfectly content with both a 0.18 dual coil at 450 F 70 Watts and a 0.38 dual at 38 to 46 Watts (4.2 volts to 3.8 volts from Ohms Law).

Can you GUESSTIMATE the temperature of the unregulated Vape? I take it for granted there are more variables that's why I said rough and guesstimate.

I was going to put you under oath by PM but believe others would also benefit from your response...

Thanks!

I am not sure that I understand your question.
AFAIK, the temperature of our coils are around the boiling temperature of the particular liquid it is evaporating, as long as liquid supply is uninterrupted regardless of ohm/watt/build.
However, and luckily, the temperature of the actual vapor/steam we inhale is way below of it for it is a mixture of air including gaseous liquid and already condensated liquid. The later is what we can see
Point is: the more evaporated liquid (already condensated or not) you have in your mix the higher it's temperature.
And if it is getting close to the coil temperature you are either already dead or will be shortly
Ok, I just guessing here, don't actually know what temperature your lung/trachea can handle but mine is not overly happy above 200F when I am in a sauna and never tried anything close to PG's boiling temp, let alone VG's.

 

[jazzvaper]

@vapealone Yes of course, the BP of the liquid. My question is about the temperature of the wire. We know that TC is "approximating" that based on the TCR. (I feel like I am now answering my own question. [emoji12]) Nevertheless, assuming the same level of Vape satisfaction, using the same liquid, with roughly the same airflow, can we "guess" that the coil temp(s) are close to each other?

Maybe this is a question for Dr. Farsalinos. [emoji18]

 

[vapealone]

@vapealone Yes of course, the BP of the liquid. My question is about the temperature of the wire. We know that TC is "approximating" that based on the TCR. (I feel like I am now answering my own question. [emoji12]) Nevertheless, assuming the same level of Vape satisfaction, using the same liquid, with roughly the same airflow, can we "guess" that the coil temp(s) are close to each other?

Maybe this is a question for Dr. Farsalinos. [emoji18]

I think it is a safe assumption.
They should be close

 

[pevinsghost]

Tried a new build I thought might be interesting.

I made twisted 316L 28ga wire, then twisted that with itself. Sorry for taking the photos with a potato, no macro mode on my phone camera. This is a bit of the resulting wire.

Made a single coil vertical on a velocity. 7&1/2 wraps on 3mm, then stuffed with rayon and fluffed.

Came out to 0.65 ohm.

The coil heated extremely evenly right off the bat, and is vaping great on the xcube ii (which reads it low, 0.58 ohm), looking forward to trying it on the dna200.

Flavor is very good, but not exactly a huge leap forward from a standard twisted coil. Would probably be better in something with a small chamber, but I wanted room for an easy build on my first try at double twisting.

With the dna200 I shouldn't need a huge base resistance like the xcube prefers, so whenever my current build in my Aromamizer dies I'll build a dual coil and report back if anyone's interested.

 

[dwcraig1]

So after watching a GrimGreen video on how to make clapton wire I thought I'd better get my set up going if I were to get serious about it. This is the part that made it simple for me. I made about a 2 foot length, 26 gauge single nichrome with 32 gauge nichrome, perfect from start to finish.

Now I need to order some 34 gauge Nichrome for when my NiFe 70 gets here. I think I only have about 10 feet of it, the first wire I ever bought but never used it (3 years ago)
Edit: So I just ordered 100' of 34 gauge Kanthal, $4 shipped, I'll bet that's less than I paid for that 10' some time ago.

 

[BigEgo]

So I got my 317L and 430 stainless steel wire in today from the lovely folks over at Unkamen. First I used the 317L in my STM, 8-9 wraps over a 2.5 mm bit (26 ga wire). It vaped fine but on my DNA device monitor I noticed it pulsed a lot and fluctuated pretty wildly at my setting of 450F. A lot of zig zaggy lines. This is unlike my Ti builds which are all pretty much flat. I presume this is simply a sign that the mod is having a hard time keeping up with these tiny resistance fluctuations.

So, I took out the 317L wire and put in a 430 build (28 gauge, 2.5mm, 9-10 wraps). It came out to 0.84Ω. I set it to 450F and it vaped smooth. (I am using the appropriate .csv files from steam-engine). I checked the device monitor "scope" and this is what I saw:

Pretty smooth, almost as smooth as my Ti builds. I notice zero pulsing in the vape, so it's working great as far as I am concerned.

Now the only concern is 430's corrosion resistance (it is a cheaper grade steel compared to 304/316/317 and not as corrosion resistant as those grades). I did not dry burn it before wicking (just did spaced coils). The good news is that spaced coils on SS are much easier to pull off than on springy Ti. But I have seen people post to these forums with rusty looking SS coils and that was with 304/316 grade steel. Hopefully I wont be inhaling a lot of flaking off particulate matter, but we'll see.