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TheBloke

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@nelsonm64 Actually that's weird you got TP messages at 90.. that's what I'd expect from a too-low setting, not too-high. With 90 I'd expect you to never see TP, and it would then burn cotton/give dry hits.

With 90 it would think the coefficient was around 0.009. Therefore a resistance rise of 0.12Ω would be calculated as a temperature increase of 133°C (271°F) instead of the real increase of (approx) 200°C / 392°F

So it would keep pumping more power in, not realising it was already at (and beyond) the set temp. You'd be able to see this on-screen because you'd see it never getting anywhere near the set temperature - you might configure it for 400°F and then vape hard/get lots of vapour, but looking at the screen you'd see it thinks it's only at 300°F or whatever. (I realise it might not be easy to study the screen live with a Zero - another reason I love the 'Flask!)

You sure you had it at 90 and got TP messages? Or maybe there was another problem at that time (OCC coils are notoriously variable, I've heard).
 
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TheBloke

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It's probably just availability in Europe. It sounds like it's basically the same thing. Still have to convince myself to order the resitherm wire.

And I think you can just contact Kanthal and order a sample. Oh btw I just noticed that Kanthal is based in sweden. How ironic so it can't well be the availability lol.

BTW does the fasttech / infinite flask have the kangxin chip? Those should say "Hello / KX something" on waking. I have a 40 watt kangxin vaporflask.

My Resistherm will be here in a few days I hope, early next week, so I will be the guinea pig and let you know how it goes :)

Re Infinite flask - see first post! The 40-60W flasks on FT are indeed Infinite and they have NP, that's what I'm using for testing (the 50W not 60W because I was too impatient to wait for it :) )

FT don't sell the Waidea/Kangxin flasks that have the older Kangxin / Rayn chip/board.

See this post for my detailed review of the Infinite flask (and see post above it for pics)
 

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How does TC work and what is the Temperature Coefficient of Resistance?

Temperature Control works by monitoring changes in resistance in the coil and using this to estimate temperature changes. It works because resistance increases linearly and predictably with temperature, although the amount that it increases varies greatly between wires.

TC is possible only with wire that has a reasonably high Temperature Coefficient of Resistance. The Coefficient is a numerical value that indicates how much resistance will rise for a given temperature increase. When the coefficient is high resistance will increase a lot as temperature increases. When it is low, resistance does not rise or rises a very small amount.

Ni200 was chosen by Evolv as the first TC wire because it has one of the highest coefficients amongst common metals/wires. Kanthal has an extremely low coefficient - its resistance barely rises at all even with hundreds of degrees of heating.

The Coefficient of pure Nickel is 0.006. In practice this means that for every °C hotter a wire gets, its resistance rises by 0.0006Ω - which is the coefficient value divided by 10, for reasons I don't quite understand yet!

Example:
  • A coil is at 0.10Ω at room temperature (20°C / 68°F)
  • You vape and the chip sees its resistance is now 0.22Ω
    • So it knows its resistance rose by 0.12Ω
  • Then it calculates using the coefficient of 0.006 that a resistance rise of 0.12Ω equals a temperature rise of 200°C (392° F)
    • And therefore the coil temperature is now 220°C (428°F)
  • (0.22Ω - 0.10Ω) / (0.006 / 10) = 200°C (392°F)
  • + 20°C (68°F) [starting temp] = 220°C (428°F) [coil temp]

DNA 40 and Yihi TC devices have Nickel's (or Ni200's) Coefficient hardcoded, so they only work accurately with Ni200 wire.

TC vaping with other wire is thus inaccurate by default, unless the mod allows the coefficient to be adjusted to suit the wire.

What wires besides Ni200 could we use?

At this time, there are three that I know about and I've tested two:
  • Titanium (Grade 1)
  • Stainless Steel (SS317L)
  • Dicodes' Resistherm NiFe30

Titanium


Titanium has a coefficient of 0.0035, just over half compared to Nickel's of 0.006.

It is already being used for TC vapes (existing ECF thread: Titanium wire, vaping and safety.) It's possible to do this on normal TC mods but to do so requires a temperature offset of around 90°F - ie. one would set 340° when one wanted 430°.

With a corrected coefficient, this will no longer necessary - the real desired temp can be set.

The advantages of Titanium over Ni200 are various, including enabling the use of contact coils (not spaced) and higher resistance ranges. It's also stronger and won't break easily like Ni200 often does. Much more info is in the above thread​

Stainless Steel

Stainless Steel has a coefficient of 0.00094, less than one-sixth of Nickel's.

This means that SS can not be properly used for TC without adjusting the coefficient - its resistance increases with temperature too little for normal mods, that are expecting Ni200, to use effectively.

Some people have vaped SS on normal TC mods, and it does somewhat reduce dry hits, but it will still burn cotton. But to use it effectively, a coefficient adjustment is necessary.

Once the coefficient is adjusted, Stainless Steel works properly - no burnt cotton. However my testing thus far has still required a temperature offset, albeit not as much as people have had to do with Titanium. When using the Infinite Nickel Purity feature, I have set an offset of around 50°F when using SS.

The advantages of Stainless Steel versus Ni200 are the same as for Titanium - contact coils, higher resistance ranges, stronger. The advantages of SS versus Titanium is that it's much easier to work with - malleable, easy to coil. It is also readily available, and cheap.

The safety aspects of it are unknown at this point in time, though theoretically it should be fairly safe at TC type temperatures (perhaps safer than Ni200 even, though don't quote me on that!)​

Dicodes' Resistherm NiFe30

This is a new wire that Dicods are introducing along with their new mods. Its coefficient 0.0032, very similar to Titanium.

I have ordered some for testing, and know little about it other than it's currently very expensive!

In one of their manuals, Dicodes state that it is easier to work with than Ni200 (what isn't?) I don't know how it will compare to SS and Titanium.​


Infinite's implementation : Nickel Purity

What is Nickel Purity?


Nickel Purity is a setting from 10-100 that Infinite have added to their new DNA 40 clone chip. It can be found in a number of mods, including VaporFlask clones, Zero clones and VaporShark clones. These mods are available in 40, 50 and 60W variants, which are identical besides the wattage; only 60W is recommended because it is almost the same price as the lower watages.

The stated purpose of Nickel Purity is to allow users who have lower quality Ni200 wire - such as is commonly found in China - to better use TC. However, it has far more use besides that - and thus is rather poorly named.

It works by by directly modifying the Coefficient of Resistance value that the mod uses to estimate temperature increases from resistance increases in the coil wire. If nickel wire is less pure, it will have a lower coefficient - the resistance will rise less with each degree of temperature increase. The coefficient for less pure Ni200 will be lower than 0.006, perhaps 0.005 or whatever.

In fact, the feature is much more useful than its name suggests. In most of the world we do not suffer from poor Ni200. But as Infinite implemented Nickel Purity as a scale across a range of coefficient values, it has much more interesting uses.

This feature is exciting for us because allows us to use different wire altogether, including Titanium Grade 1, Stainless Steel, and the new Resistherm wire.

My testing has indicated that this works well, enabling better and easier use of Titanium without temperature offsets, and making the use of Stainless Steel properly usable for TC for the first time.

How does Nickel Purity work?

My testing indicates that it works very well, and very logically.

It would appear to quite simply be a Temperature Coefficient of Resistance scale.

The scale of Nickel Purity is 10 - 100. The default on the new Infinite mods is 70.

My testing has indicated that a value of 10 is roughly equivalent to a coefficient value of 0.001 and a value of 100 is 0.01.
  • Ni200's coefficient of approx. 0.006 would suggest a value of 60.
  • Titanium's coefficient of 0.0035 would suggest 35.
  • And Stainless Steel, whose coefficient is around 0.00094, would use a value of 10.

I have tested all these wires and various values, and found that they mostly work as expected:

  • Titanium on a setting of 35 vapes well, and much better than it does on a normal TC mod (DNA 40/Yihi).
    • However I have found a slightly better vape from increasing the value, up to around 42.
  • Stainless Steel on a setting of 10 also vapes well, and becomes properly usable for TC for the first time
    • But a temperature offset is still required - around 40-50°F I am finding.
    • I still need to do more thorough testing, including with other attys
  • With Ni200, a value of 60 would seem appropriate from the scale, but in practice I am finding the default of 70 works a bit better (no doubt that's why it's the default)

I still need to do more testing to understand these results fully. It did seem from my first testing that the scale was fairly linear with coefficient, but in practice I am finding that I want to set the value a little higher than suggested by that correlation.

I am in the process of doing further testing and will update as I find more.

But the great news is that it definitely works, making vaping on Ti much easier and more convenient, and enabling proper TC use of Stainless Steel for the first time.

How to test Nickel Purity settings?

The new Infinite chip mods have an additional excellent feature that made it very easy to test for this. Unlike most/all standard TC mods, the Infinite chip displays live resistance readings during the vape.

So say you put on a TC coil that measures 0.10, and then you start vaping. Most TC mods will continue to show the static value of 0.10, because it hides the real resistance value of the coil.

In contrast, the Infinite shows the live updating resistance. It also shows the live updating temperature (or rather its estimate of it.)

By comparing these values together - what is the resistance, and what does it think the temperature is? - it's possible to work out what coefficient value it's using for that calculation.

The only downside is the annoying "Temperature Protection" message it often flashes, which obscures some of the data. But this can be worked around by setting a temperature too high, so the message is not flashed or flashed more rarely.

I will give more details on my testing, and data, soon.
You're doing great work here! You definitely should upload videos where you're doing testing, and explaining how this all works.
 
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TheBloke

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My SXK 50w Vapor shark from fasttech came set at 70 on the nickel purity menu. Great little mod. By the way the screen says ELOVE DNA 50w on boot(They added an E I guess to avoid the lawsuit)

Awesome, so sounds like they are using the same default on all now.

Haha so it does! I've never seen that before because it shows it as soon as you get the cap half way on, and the VF screen is on the top so I can't see it as I put the batteries in. I just did it carefully so I could see.

ELOVE DNA haha I like that - I do love it!
 
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TheBloke

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Resistherm NiFe30 - some more details

  • I originally described it as being 'from Dicodes' - exactly as their marketing department hoped I would :)
    • In fact they are merely popularising a pre-existing wire that has been around since 1969! (albeit quite niche I think, little info on Google)
    • It was created by IsabellenHütte - their info page on it is here: RESISTHERM® - Isabellenhütte Heusler, and the datasheet (PDF).
    • I suppose Dicodes can claim some credit for it, as it is probably they who are buying from IsabellenHütte and selling in vaping-sized spools (at horrendous prices..)
  • Little is currently known about the wire for vaping.
    • In one of their manuals, Dicodes only state that it is easier to work with than Ni200 (what isn't?)
    • I suspect I will have to go onto google.de and make a lot of use of Translate to learn any more (any German speakers who'd like to volunteer? :) )
  • One potential downside is that the wire appears to only be available as 0.28mm (29G)
    • The manufacturer's site lists the maximum size as 0.25mm (30G)
    • But the Pipeline site that I ordered it from state that theirs is 0.28mm (29G).
    • So perhaps they got the manufacturer to increase the size a little, or else they had some off-size wire available in a slightly larger size.
    • Perhaps this will change over time, but I would think that Dicodes would need to create a very great amount of publicity/popularity for the manufacturer to start producing the wire in larger sizes.
    • Of course we can twist wire to get thicker, and 29/30G is what many people already use for Ni200 so it's not necessarily a big problem.
  • Some facts from the data sheet:
    • Temperature Coefficient of Resistance is 0.0032 - very similar to Titanium, approximately half that of Ni200
    • Usable up to 600°C (1112°F) - half the ceiling of Kanthal, but double that of Ni200; mistakes/over-heating of TC coils should not be a problem.
    • Resistance of 0.28mm (29G) wire is 5.5Ω/metre
      • This compares to the following wires @ 0.28mm / 29G:
        • Kanthal A1: 29.54Ω/m
        • Ni200: 1.96Ω/m
        • Titanium Gr1: 9.57Ω/m
        • Stainless Steel 317L: 13.15Ω/m
      • Example resistances from a coil of 0.28mm/29G: 10 wraps, 3mm, slightly spaced (0.5mm gap between coils):
        • Ni200: 0.183Ω
        • Resistherm: 0.65Ω
        • Titanium Gr1: 0.90Ω
        • SS 317L: 1.54Ω
        • Kanthal A1: 2.75Ω
    • Alloy composition:
      • Nickel / Ni: 68.6%
      • Iron / Fe : 30.0%
      • Aluminium / Al: 0.6%
      • Manganese / Mn: 0.5%
      • Chromium / Cr: 0.3%
 
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ndb70

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Hey, this is a great thread, and it's exactly what I was looking for to discuss an idea spinning in my head since a couple of days.
I'd really like for you to tell me what you think about it...

Let's start:
since when I started fiddling with TC, in November of last year with my first dna40 mod (a vaporflask), what bugged me was the problem of the static resistance, i.e. the sum of all the resistance in the current path that is not part of the coil.
This is what greatly varies between mods and atomizer and is what can make the whole temperature control (as it is currently implemented) fail.
Let me clear the field from the other big problem: unstable connections. For the sake of this discussion I'm considering all connections firm and stable, so that we can focus only on the adverse effect of static resistance.
I've really always questioned why the software in TC chips has not been designed to cope with that.
It's true that static resistance varies, but it can be measured: if you put a dead short between your atty's posts and let the mod take its resistance measurement, you have characterized the static resistance of your setup.
Let's call this value:
Kr = total resistance measured when the atty has a dead short instead of a coil

Now, the idea that started spinning in my head since I received my dicodes dani extreme v2 a couple of days ago goes like that:
we could use the programmable temperature coefficient (call it nickel-purity, or whatever you like, I'll use "TCOEF") to make resistance calculation more accurate in the presence of static resistance.

When a mod measure the resistance R0 of the (atty+coil) system at temperature T0, it then uses the fact that, for a certain TCOEF, the following holds:

R1 = R0(1+TCOEF(T1-T0))

And so by measuring R1, it deduces at which T1 the system is.

But the problem is that, in reality, in our system only a fraction of R0 varies with temperature, because in reality

R0 = Kr + Rt = static-resistance + temperature-varying-resistance

And only Rt will vary with temperature.

If you reason about it a bit, you can see that by simple equation, you can derive an "Effective Temperature Coeffiecient" EffTCOEF that can "absorb" the static resistance and make the temperature deduction work correctly for every particular value of Kr:

EffTCOEF = R0 / (Kr + R0) * TCOEF.

Example: Let'say I characterize my atty with a dead short and get Kr ~= 0.05 ohm, then I put a NI200 coil and the mod measure a 0.17 ohm total resistance.
That means that:
Kr = 0.05
R0 = 0.12
Now, if TCOEF for NI200 is 620 (in the units used by dicodes for example), I just have to reprogram it as

EffTCOEF = 0.12/(0.17)*620 ~= 437

And now the temperature displayed by the mod should be much more accurate.

In a few words, by characterizing the static resistance of our atomizers (which ideally must be done only once), we can then calculate an EffTCOEF for each of them and using such effective coefficient we should be able to get much greater accuracy of the temperature displayed by our mods.

I'd like to hear some feedback from the great people around here if I'm just over-thinking or is there something worthy in all this...

I can say that I did a first test on my K4, where with a dna40 chip a water test would see it floating at about 174F (instead of around 212), and with the dicodes reprogrammed with my calculated EffTCOEF, the water test now hovers at 203F...

And just a finishing rant: what would cost to chip manifacturer to embed a "characterize atty" function where you put your dead short atty on, and the mod acquires its static Kr, stores it in a profile and recalculates the coefficient for you??
If I don't get bashed by more knowleadgeable people around here, it might probably be a good idea to let this circulate and see if someone picks it up?
 

TheBloke

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@ndb70 I think you are definitely right!

I've wondered myself several times about the 'static resistance' when talking about how some attys might be set to, say, 420, another 450, another 380, and so on. I also thought that Nickel Purity / TCOEF be used to adjust for differences in attys - an alternative to temperature offsets.

What I did not think of was actually measuring that resistance and doing a calculation to come up with an exact figure. That is excellent!

So do you think the "dead short" could really read as high as 0.05? Is that a guess or a real measurement?

You are dead right that the mod needs a mode to detect for this, that would be awesome.

The trouble at the moment is can we really recommend to anyone that they take that dead short measurement - when one accidental tap on fire could be disastrous? I suppose technically it shouldn't be - the mod should first refuse to fire (probably too low resistance) and secondly, even if it does fire, it should immediately detect the short and stop. But can it stop quick enough to prevent toasting itself and/or the batteries? And would you want to risk your mods and your batteries on the detection being good at enough when the short is so extreme? Because they made the short detection to detect a coil touching the atty base or something similar, not a direct few-millimetres connection from positive to negative post.

Maybe I am over-worrying and the short protection should be fine? And in any case it's only a problem if you accidentally press fire - though that's not a risk that can be ignored (very easy to do by mistake.)

The ideal setup would be to only ever test this externally, on an ohms reader. But can we trust a $10 ohms reader to be accurate in 0.01 granularity? I can't trust mine to be accurate to 0.1.

Anyway those are just practical concerns which can probably be overcome. I think your base idea is excellent and I really want to test it out now!

And yes this is something the mod makers should definitely add. Because there they can make it safe - put it into "offset calibration" mode, which immediately locks the device and disables all firing while you join the posts. It then refuses to fire, even once unlocked, until it has detected the removal of the atty (ohms drop to 0.00).

Even then I do wonder whether any mod maker would - or should - encourage users to connect the posts of their atty together in a dead short. But if they put those measures in they might at least consider it. And it's maybe something we could write outselves for the new Cloudmaker re-programmable mod.

Thanks so much, that's a really interesting thought - very worth sharing!
 
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TheBloke

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The pipelinestore website is a bit confusing. In the link to the wire they specify 0.28mm so afaik they got a special wire diameter of 0.28 mm ~= 29 AWG (5.5 Ohm/Meter)

Oh well spotted, I missed that - yeah I see what you mean. It's nowhere on the page itself but it is on the index page.

OK well that's very strange. If they were going to get a thicker gauge, why only 0.03mm larger? I suppose it must be that the supplier said they could push it that far and no further (maybe as part of manufacturing 0.25mm they sometimes get inaccurate batches that go out as far as 0.28mm? So they can collect those and sell them to Dicodes.)

Anyway thanks for finding that! I will update my earlier posts.

Oh, and "lol" at the other version of the wire I see they sell - exactly the same, but in an aluminium gift box for an extra €2! Because this is classy wire, man :)
 
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DejayRezme

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    And just a finishing rant: what would cost to chip manifacturer to embed a "characterize atty" function where you put your dead short atty on, and the mod acquires its static Kr, stores it in a profile and recalculates the coefficient for you??
    If I don't get bashed by more knowleadgeable people around here, it might probably be a good idea to let this circulate and see if someone picks it up?

    Interesting post! Anyway this is another reason to go for higher resistance wires because the influence of "internal resistance" is less important, just as tiny fluctuations of 510 or post connectivity.

    I would love someone to make a open source arduino based vape chip. Those Arduino micro chips are tiny now (or the Teensy 3.1 chip). It's really not magic you probably just have to add a mosfet or something. but I'm a newbie to electronics. Wasn't there talk about this for this modular mod? What was the name again? Sorry for going a bit off topic... but a DIY mod chip would be good for innovation as well as for regulations.

    BTW lets not call it TCOEF (just temperature coefficient) but TCR (temperature coefficient of resistivity) :)
     

    TheBloke

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    Interesting post! Anyway this is another reason to go for higher resistance wires because the influence of "internal resistance" is less important, just as tiny fluctuations of 510 or post connectivity.

    Very good point

    I would love someone to make a open source arduino based vape chip. Those Arduino micro chips are tiny now (or the Teensy 3.1 chip). It's really not magic you probably just have to add a mosfet or something. but I'm a newbie to electronics. Wasn't there talk about this for this modular mod? What was the name again? Sorry for going a bit off topic... but a DIY mod chip would be good for innovation as well as for regulations.

    It's happening! Cloudmaker Tech | Facebook

    Maybe not open source, but Arduino-based and re-programmable - I think/hope via APIs. It looks very exciting. I'm talking to them at the moment about trying to help out with the project.

    There's a YT video where they're interviewed and explain more, search YT for Cloudmaker.

    BTW lets not call it TCOEF (just temperature coefficient) but TCR (temperature coefficient of resistivity) :)

    Yeah I prefer TCR too.
     

    ndb70

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    @TheBloke, thanks for your feedback.
    The 0.05 value I used was for example, but my K4, measured with a semi-professional low-res meter I have at work, gets to a whopping 0.03 :-(
    You're right that a safe characterization of the atty's Kr requires a bit of care to be safe and also a great accuracy, but as a poor-man workaround you could decide to rely completely on steam-engine calculation for the value of R0 and put all the "excess" resistance that the mod sees in an estimated Kr. Again, all my coils result usually about 0.03-0.06 higher than what steam-engine says when I put them on the K4, which kind of double confirms my findings
     

    TheBloke

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    @TheBloke, thanks for your feedback.
    The 0.05 value I used was for example, but my K4, measured with a semi-professional low-res meter I have at work, gets to a whopping 0.03 :-(
    You're right that a safe characterization of the atty's Kr requires a bit of care to be safe and also a great accuracy, but as a poor-man workaround you could decide to rely completely on steam-engine calculation for the value of R0 and put all the "excess" resistance that the mod sees in an estimated Kr. Again, all my coils result usually about 0.03-0.06 higher than what steam-engine says when I put them on the K4, which kind of double confirms my findings

    Yeah good points. Highlights the importance of accurate resistance reading in the mod to start with.

    In that respect I don't know what to make of my Infinite 50W. It usually measures every atty 0.01-0.03 lower than every other mod I have - IPV4, Waidea VF, Smok M80, etc. I haven't yet compared it against Steam Engine.

    I've tried verifying two mods in the past versus Steam, measuring a length of wire down to the mm and trying to grip it exactly at the end of the atty screws so as to compare the mods are against a known Steam Engine value. Even then one can't be completely sure - for example, the wire might say it's 0.25mm but can we be sure that any given 10cm strip is precisely 0.25mm along its whole length? I'm not sure.

    Anyway it's definitely really interesting and something well worth testing, I will try and do some on my mod as soon as possible.

    How are you finding the Dicodes mod in general? I would love to have a mod that's so sophisticated and configurable. It looks amazing, must be 10x more options than most mods. It's my dream of a configurable mod, well planned, properly structured menus, etc etc. I just wish, so so much, that they hadn't put it in a tube with a single button :( That rather spoils it for me. One button I could just about manage (though I complain when most mods only have three when they could benefit from at least one more!), but tube I don't know - just seems like an inconvenient form factor to me. But I've never used one so maybe it's easy to get used to.
     
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    DejayRezme

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    It's happening! Cloudmaker Tech | Facebook
    Maybe not open source, but Arduino-based and re-programmable - I think/hope via APIs. It looks very exciting. I'm talking to them at the moment about trying to help out with the project.

    Thanks! The "Whiteout OS" firmware is open source so it would be perfect for tinkering with resistance and temperature protection like that. Not sure if the chip itself will be open hardware but it is arduino compatible (probably using just the arduino micro ATmega32u4 cpu with custom PCB to make it smaller). Anyway it's off topic so I'll check out some other threads for that :)
     

    nelsonm64

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    Thanks!

    Yeah that is something to consider, maybe a downside, with Nickel Purity: for normal TC vaping it could make the process a little more complicated. Someone using standard (good quality) Ni200 probably just wants to vape away with a hardcoded default. To be fair, the default value of 70 seemed to work for me - your setting of 65 is probably not much of a noticeable difference to that, or at least it's within the margin of error for most attys/builds/the technology itself. I fiddled about between 60 and 80 and ultimately settled back on 70 where it was at the start.

    So it does add another variable to consider. TC is already somewhat inaccurate and vague, with different recommended/preferred temperatures for different devices and users. Those can now be modified via NP as well as temperature offsets, which is good or bad depending on how you look at it.

    But for vaping different wires than Ni200, it's awesome.

    Was your NP at a default of 70 like in my Infinite flask? One YouTube review, I think it was VapnFagan, found his Geeco Zero clone defaulted to 10 which naturally broke TC completely. That was a pre-release mod so hopefully they fixed them all from that point onwards.
    yup, mine was at 70 by default too... i'm looking forward to trying different wires also. just ordered some tempered ni200, can't handle how soft regular ni200 is.... very hard to deal with ;) hopefully the tempered is a bit stiffer!
     

    nelsonm64

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    It's probably just availability in Europe. It sounds like it's basically the same thing. Still have to convince myself to order the resitherm wire.

    And I think you can just contact Kanthal and order a sample. Oh btw I just noticed that Kanthal is based in sweden. How ironic so it can't well be the availability lol.

    BTW does the fasttech / infinite flask have the kangxin chip? Those should say "Hello / KX something" on waking. I have a 40 watt kangxin vaporflask.
    as far as I know the one and only flask FT has now has the infinite chip :) TheBloke has one, he'll confirm it i'm sure :)
     

    nelsonm64

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    Apr 27, 2013
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    Kelowna, B.C.
    @nelsonm64 Actually that's weird you got TP messages at 90.. that's what I'd expect from a too-low setting, not too-high. With 90 I'd expect you to never see TP, and it would then burn cotton/give dry hits.

    With 90 it would think the coefficient was around 0.009. Therefore a resistance rise of 0.12Ω would be calculated as a temperature increase of 133°C (271°F) instead of the real increase of (approx) 200°C / 392°F

    So it would keep pumping more power in, not realising it was already at (and beyond) the set temp. You'd be able to see this on-screen because you'd see it never getting anywhere near the set temperature - you might configure it for 400°F and then vape hard/get lots of vapour, but looking at the screen you'd see it thinks it's only at 300°F or whatever. (I realise it might not be easy to study the screen live with a Zero - another reason I love the 'Flask!)

    You sure you had it at 90 and got TP messages? Or maybe there was another problem at that time (OCC coils are notoriously variable, I've heard).
    pretty sure but, not 100% :) been working long hours lately so I can't be trusted... you could be right and I did have immediate TP at a low value because I did turn it down to like 30 if I remember right ;) I will have to check it again to make sure, cheers.
     
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