TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[TheotherSteveS]

Tom
Do you still have some silica wick around...maybe a quick wrap around the probe to hold it in place?
Duane

Damn that is a good idea!!

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Hey Druckle you can't 'like' a post praising your own idea man!! Haha!

 

[druckle]

yeah...just watch me

 

[TheBloke]

Oops wrong thread, I'll put something useful here in a minute

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Oops wrong thread, I'll put something useful here in a minute

waiting! lol

 

[TheBloke]

Some progress with/from SXK!

Got another reply from SXK, a much more concrete reply than the first non-committal one:

1. He has now discussed my email with "my boss and our engineer", and they have promised to investigate the low resistance problems
2. He also asked me to give his engineer more details on my findings on NP adjustments and Titanium.
   1. Part of my first email was telling them that they were badly under-selling NP: that "nickel purity" was the very least use of that feature, in fact very few people (outside of China) were ever likely to need it.
   2. I told them that its far more interesting use was for non-Ni200 wires, as a linear TCR adjustment scale.
   3. I never quite understood why they didn't already understand that - it's possible that an engineer made it that flexible because he knew it would be useful, but never sold the bosses on the benefits of selling it as that.
3. Anyway, the fact that they focused on Titanium suggest to me that they're seeing what joyetech are doing with the EVIC, and they're belatedly realising Titanium is the New Big thing; and now perhaps the bosses have realised for the first time that they already have a mod that does that - so why don't they sell it as such!
   1. In particular they want to know how I calibrated the NP scale for Titanium and what Titanium wire I am using.
4. I couldn't get back to him during their working day today, HKT, but I hope to speak to him tomorrow - he's added me on Skype so we can discuss further.
5. The potential great news here is that I will be telling them in no uncertain terms that although NP has amazing potential, it is very much sullied at the moment by low resistance - they can't sell this as a general Beyond-Ni200 wire mod without fixing that (indeed even as a general TC mod it's not being as well received as it should/could be.)
   1. Therefore if I'm right and they are now thinking of Titanium and other wires, this will be a huge incentive for them to fix the low resistance once and for all.

I hope to speak to him on Skype late tonight my time, beginning of the day their time.

Continuing to make progress on this. More emails exchanged. The language barrier is a big problem, so it takes a while. But they say they are committed to fixing the low resistance problem, and I have received questions/comments directly from an engineer. Still a lot of confusion, mostly from translation issues, but slowly getting there.

I'm going to make them a video showing all my findings, as hopefully this will work around some of the inherent communication problems.

Example: the engineer pointed out to me that resistance can change if atomizer is not screwed down properly or is oxidized. Ya thanks for that

I would demand a consultancy fee if i were you...I am absolutely serious!

I have passed on your email to my boss. He said we would fix low resistance and send you free samples to review for us. We will do more and more good products in future. Any good advice please feel free to let me know. We will try our best to do it.​

Sometimes the only reward you need is knowing you made a difference. Oh, and free samples. That's also good

 

[tchavei]

you, you... vaper .....

 

[Quantum Mech]

Not yet! I came close to probing a Ti coil last night but I couldn't quite get the probe to fit inside the coil without shorting it - I nearly did a reading then it slipped slightly, shorted the coil, and melted it (the coil, not the probe, thankfully! )

That was at 3.0mm, I reckon a 3.5mm or even 3.2mm will be perfect for getting the probe right up close to the coil without touching any part of it.

I will try again tonight hopefully.

I tried too, camera set to video it for all to see & just failed miserably

Needless to say the vid was deleted pronto

 

[TheBloke]

Tom
Do you still have some silica wick around...maybe a quick wrap around the probe to hold it in place?
Duane

Ha I have loads! I have never once used silica (I started vaping in early March, long after silica had been replaced by Japanese cotton as the prime choice) but I must have 60 pieces in my Wick Drawer, because practically every clone atty I buy still comes with a couple of pieces.

Lately I have started just throwing them away, but before I used to keep it all just in case I ever found a use for it.

So yeah, that's possible. Another possibility is some kind of thin tape wrapped around the probe, which would allow me to contact the coil without shorting. Or, just cotton - a thin wrap of cotton around the probe, sandwiched between probe and coil. That would be fine as long as I was testing temperatures below 450°F or so. And it might also allow a water test, for double calibration (checking both mod and probe reading ~ 100°C?)

Still not tried any of this, but I am goin to make a concerted effort tonight because if can get the probe to show a reasonably accurate temp that will be excellent to put in my video for SXK. "Here is the temp setting with NP70 - you see, inaccurate because resistance is low; here it is at NP100, now it is OK - we have to adjust because of low resistance." I hope a video will somewhat bypass the "lost in translation" problems.

 

[tchavei]

Just learn Chinese

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[Heavyrocker]

Seems like vaping is making us all engineers.

 

[TheBloke]

Thank you, Tony, you are being very helpful today

 

[tchavei]

Thank you, Tony, you are being very helpful today

You're welcome

That's what happens when one rushes to a BM to buy a evic VT and the owner just sold the last one... My humour gets corrosive.... [emoji14]

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[druckle]

You're welcome

That's what happens when one rushes to a BM to buy a evic VT and the owner just sold the last one... My humour gets corrosive.... [emoji14]

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

Sounds like you didn't physically attack the guy. Or...you are tapatalking from your phone sitting in a jail cell.

Duane

 

[Quantum Mech]

You're welcome

That's what happens when one rushes to a BM to buy a evic VT and the owner just sold the last one... My humour gets corrosive.... [emoji14]

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

Argh sh*7 man

See you been putting that off for a while in the VT thread, looking for best option & was not sold on the white at first

Same thing happened with me when the M Class came out, I did not get in quick enough so had to wait a month

Then wanted the all black, found Vapinart ... sold out

Took the next day off & drove for an hour and a half each way to a B&M to get one in the end

Few weeks later all black in stock at Vapinart so got that too

So expect your have your first choice colour soon & a spare

 

[tchavei]

No. In all honesty, they all look ugly to me... I mean race strips? Really?

Anyway, I called a few shops and all were out of stock except one which had ONE last white unit so I ordered it. It's on a courier truck right now and should be delivered tomorrow

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[TheBloke]

Right, I think it's time to take things up a notch. Not even going to bother with this silly $3 temp probe. Instead I'm buying this:

UNI-T UT325 Contact Type Thermometer



Full specs:

Spoiler: Specs

• Dual thermocouple inputs
• Works with type K, J, T, E, R, S and N thermocouples
• 0.1°C resolution
• High accuracy testing
• Portable, lightweight unit for easy portability
• Celsius, Fahrenheit and Kelvin selection
• Data hold function
• Auto shut down when left idle
• Low battery indication
• MAX/MIN/AVG modes
• Data logging - 100 records
• USB interface for downloading testing data
• High and low alarms
• High/lower signal output
• LCD backlit screen
• Auto calibration
• Electricity cut-off memory

I'm going to get a couple of slightly better K Probes as well (apparently the bundled ones are very cheap, and only go up to 250°C.) These work up to 700°C and have a 3mm probe diameter which will fit nicely into most standard coils (if I build around a 3mm rod the coil is always slightly bigger than that unless I pull it really tight.) Link.

There's two things I particularly like about UNI-T - first, it can monitor and display two probes at once. I figure this will mean I could put two probes in a single coil, perhaps one each end, and get an idea of how temperature varies across the coil. I can also measure a dual coil setup and see how well a given mod/build/atty regulates two coils at once.

It can also show difference measurements between the two probes, which is convenient for either of the above kinds of dual tests.

Second, this UNI-T device logs to the computer through USB and its own software. That's not perfect - the two reviews I've read of this device (a detailed one here) both say the software isn't great. Its main weakness is it will only log one probe at once. So although I can monitor two probes on the screen, I can only record one of them to the PC; I can also log the delta between them to the PC, just not the individual values. That's a shame, but no biggie. Dual-probe tests will have to be non-logged, or logging will have to be done manually from recording on video and playing back later.

So, yeah. I'm going to do me some proper calibrations, externally-tested SR adjustments, TCR validation and adjustment and general mod/TC accuracy testing. And I'm coming after you, Busardo!

 

[TheBloke]

Actually I am going to get these probes as well. They're made by a UK company, saying the following:

This is one of the smallest wire gauge thermocouples available just 0.13mm diameter these are manufactured in our UK factory using Omega TT-KI-36 wire class1 with a max temperature of 260°c, they are welded using an argon gas to stop any oxidisation and create the best weld possible.With a response time of 1 second in air makes this thermocouple ideal for applications like biophysics, medical research,gas chromatography etc.



This sounds pretty interesting - 1 second response time is obviously helpful; the standard probes like the ones I showed in above post don't mention a response time. I also like how it's a very thin, small probe at the end, allowing for precise positioning on a part of a coil.

They're max 260°C so I'd need to use the standard probes first to verify I'm within that range, but any normal TC testing would be anyway.

I'm also wondering whether it would be possible to strip back a bit more of the two wires, and create a probe that curls round inside the coil, matching the turns of the coil itself! So having a coiled temp sensor in the exact same shape as the coil, 0.5mm inside the main coil (or as close I could manage.)

Because these guys are in the UK I should be able to ask them about that - maybe they'd even make me a set.

@Quantum Mech @funkyrudi @balazsk @druckle you guys probably know about this stuff - thoughts?

 

[druckle]

Actually I am going to get these probes as well. They're made by a UK company, saying the following:

This is one of the smallest wire gauge thermocouples available just 0.13mm diameter these are manufactured in our UK factory using Omega TT-KI-36 wire class1 with a max temperature of 260°c, they are welded using an argon gas to stop any oxidisation and create the best weld possible.With a response time of 1 second in air makes this thermocouple ideal for applications like biophysics, medical research,gas chromatography etc.



This sounds pretty interesting - 1 second response time is obviously helpful; the standard probes like the ones I showed in above post don't mention a response time. I also like how it's a very thin, small probe at the end, allowing for precise positioning on a part of a coil.

They're max 260°C so I'd need to use the standard probes first to verify I'm within that range, but any normal TC testing would be anyway.

I'm also wondering whether it would be possible to strip back a bit more of the two wires, and create a probe that curls round inside the coil, matching the turns of the coil itself! So having a coiled temp sensor in the exact same shape as the coil, 0.5mm inside the main coil (or as close I could manage.)

Because these guys are in the UK I should be able to ask them about that - maybe they'd even make me a set.

@Quantum Mech @funkyrudi @balazsk @druckle you guys probably know about this stuff - thoughts?

I don't think there would be any benefit of a "curly" TC. Only the welded junction tip actually measures the temp. I'd worry more about not having any contact with the TC and the coil...no shorts.

Duane

 

[TheBloke]

I don't think there would be any benefit of a "curly" TC. Only the welded junction tip actually measures the temp. I'd worry more about not having any contact with the TC and the coil...no shorts.

Duane

Ahh of course, OK.

So that means with the standard long probes, like in my first post about the UNI-T, only the tip records the temp? The rest of the probe is just so you can get the tip in a good position and keep the rest of the wire away from the hot stuff? I know that Thermocouple measures a temperature differential between the 'hot junction' and the 'cold junction' - so the weld at the end must be the hot junction, and I suppose the cold junction is in the handle/connector.

So that's another thing I like about these bare wire probes, I can see the precise length of the hot junction and position it more carefully than I can the tip of a long probe.