TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[Almighty]

the coil is the small metal tube where the drip tip connects o.o

that was mainstream and ppl bought them as low as 1.5 ohm and that was called LR ( low res )

in fact, they were an awfull start

 

[Madnapali]

I might be a bit late to the stainless steel discussion, but I've been using it for nearly a year in my cloud chasing atomizers. Big gauge wire, though, definitely not good for most atomizers. However, once torched it's easy to work with and I've had coils last well over a month before popping.

 

[Quantum Mech]

OK good to know, thanks.

Can you tell me more about touch probes? Are they a different type? Like can a K Probe be a touch probe or is a touch probe a different probe type - like type J, T, E, R, S, or N?

What material are they usually made of - if you think they might not short presumably they are, or can be, non metallic? Or at least non-conductive?

Type is their working temp range

Would think a J type will be best but a K type will do

Don't know about non conductive probes as all mine have conductive tips

The touch type have a small area at the tip which is shielded from external heat & is sprung loaded for good contact

 

[druckle]

I think slipping some of that hollow braided ceramic (silica or other) over the TC while leaving just the very tip of the junction uncovered would solve the potential shorting problem. At one time braided silica was all over the vaping world. I think I've still got a drawer with a bunch of that stuff in there. That stuff was originally made for thermocouples amd was adopted as wick for vaping.

Duane

 

[TheBloke]

the coil is the small metal tube where the drip tip connects o.o

that was mainstream and ppl bought them as low as 1.5 ohm and that was called LR ( low res )

in fact, they were an awfull start

Wow OK! Maybe GGTS = Good God, That Sucks!

I might be a bit late to the stainless steel discussion, but I've been using it for nearly a year in my cloud chasing atomizers. Big gauge wire, though, definitely not good for most atomizers. However, once torched it's easy to work with and I've had coils last well over a month before popping.

Ah great to know. Which type - 316, 317, or something different? What gauge are you using? So far I only have 30G and 25G and I've used the 25G exclusively - it's so easy to work with, both because stainless is strong and malleable and because 25 is pretty thick anyway. That's definitely a strong plus for SS versus both Titanium and Resistherm - Resistherm is Ok to work with but it's only 29G which is a bit thin, and when you twist it as I am now doing into 2x29G, it becomes incredibly springy and harder to work with; it can be torched to improve it, but it doesn't solve the problem completely.

Type is their working temp range

Would think a J type will be best but a K type will do

Oh really? In the manual for the UNI-T I got it says K has slightly higher range:

K type: -200.0ºC to +1372ºC (-328.0ºF to +2501ºF)
J type: -210.0ºC to +1200ºC (-346.0ºF to +2192ºF)
T type: -250.0ºC to +400.0ºC (-418.0ºF to +752.0ºF)
E type: -150.0ºC to +1000ºC (-238.0ºF to +1832ºF)

So 172°C more for K - not that it matters, all of them go way beyond the required range for TC. Wikipedia quotes some different general figures, but still have K higher.

So is J better in some other way? Could you elaborate?

 

[TheBloke]

I think slipping some of that hollow braided ceramic (silica or other) over the TC while leaving just the very tip of the junction uncovered would solve the potential shorting problem. At one time braided silica was all over the vaping world. I think I've still got a drawer with a bunch of that stuff in there. That stuff was originally made for thermocouples amd was adopted as wick for vaping.

Duane

OK interesting - yeah I have loads of that too. I didn't realise it had special benefits versus any generic covering material, like tape or normal cotton.

 

[TheBloke]

Just got confirmation that I'll get my probes tomorrow, and my UNI-T on Monday. Now of couse I regret not thinking of it twenty four hours earlier, because now I have to wait all weekend for it. All weekend! Woe is me

Oh well, it'll give me some time to prepare a bunch of coils. I ordered another Helping Hands as well, so I have two total, and hopefully I can find a way to hold the probes securely in position without shorting. The long stick probes should be easy enough, but the thin bare wire will be interesting.

I'm thinking maybe I'll run most of the probe along a stick to keep it rigid until right before it gets to the coil. Hopefully that won't impact the accuracy - I don't see why it should, as long as the welded joint at the end is exposed as normal.

 

[Madnapali]

Ah great to know. Which type - 316, 317, or something different? What gauge are you using? So far I only have 30G and 25G and I've used the 25G exclusively - it's so easy to work with, both because stainless is strong and malleable and because 25 is pretty thick anyway. That's definitely a strong plus for SS versus both Titanium and Resistherm - Resistherm is Ok to work with but it's only 29G which is a bit thin, and when you twist it as I am now doing into 2x29G, it becomes incredibly springy and harder to work with; it can be torched to improve it, but it doesn't solve the problem completely.

The first kind I got was 20g 317. Super thick, hard to cut, and could easily pierce flesh! Right now I have a ton of 316 in both 20 and 23g. I've mainly used the 20g, doing big contact coils in atomizers like the Doge, Hellboy, and Royal Hunter. It's a tad softer than 317, but still pretty damn springy.

Edit: Don't think I'll be using it for TC anytime soon since I don't have a chipset with alterable coefficients, but I'd still like to know where you found it that small lol. A coworker of mine and myself bought like 20 pounds of the 316 wire, doled it out into spools, kept what we wanted, and I sold the rest online for a little bit of profit.

 

[TheBloke]

The first kind I got was 20g 317. Super thick, hard to cut, and could easily pierce flesh! Right now I have a ton of 316 in both 20 and 23g. I've mainly used the 20g, doing big contact coils in atomizers like the Doge, Hellboy, and Royal Hunter. It's a tad softer than 317, but still pretty damn springy.

Edit: Don't think I'll be using it for TC anytime soon since I don't have a chipset with alterable coefficients, but I'd still like to know where you found it that small lol. A coworker of mine and myself bought like 20 pounds of the 316 wire, doled it out into spools, kept what we wanted, and I sold the rest online for a little bit of profit.

Ah interesting - I am using 317 only. I like the hardness in terms of it not breaking at all, but I don't have any problems cutting it with my normal clippers. And it's an absolute joy to coil, I just wrap it around the rod and it stays there - if I pull it a bit, it moves to the new position. That's one of its most endearing features for me.

My favourite wire supplier, Crazy Wire Company, recently launched a range of SS317L wire under the brand name TMC Wire. (TMC is just the name of their parent company, The Mesh Company - I guess they figured it was a chance to try and get associated with a popular vaping wire.)

They offer many sizes between 18G and 30G: http://www.vape-atomizer-mesh.com/products/317L-Stainless-Steel.html

They ship to the US though it will cost about $15 for shipping.

Or you could buy that amazing G Plat wire I heard about - apparently that's a super special formula wire, totally worth its $1/foot cost

 

[Madnapali]

Ah interesting - I am using 317 only. I like the hardness in terms of it not breaking at all, but I don't have any problems cutting it with my normal clippers. And it's an absolute joy to coil, I just wrap it around the rod and it stays there - if I pull it a bit, it moves to the new position. That's one of its most endearing features for me.

My favourite wire supplier, Crazy Wire Company, recently launched a range of SS317L wire under the brand name TMC Wire. (TMC is just the name of their parent company, The Mesh Company - I guess they figured it was a chance to try and get associated with a popular vaping wire.)

They offer many sizes between 18G and 30G: http://www.vape-atomizer-mesh.com/products/317L-Stainless-Steel.html

They ship to the US though it will cost about $15 for shipping.

Or you could buy that amazing G Plat wire I heard about - apparently that's a super special formula wire, totally worth its $1/foot cost

The smallest pair of wire cutters I have are dinged all to .... from snipping the 20g. I need a much better pair. I would love to get some wire from CWC but that shipping is totally not worth it. I'll wait until someone in the US starts selling it... but not GPlat cuz how I made profit on our huge spools were because everyone wanted it but not for the price, hahaha.

 

[dwcraig1]

Yeah absolutely, of course you're right - SS could grow in popularity when any wire is possible. In fact that is when it will come into its own, because then its low TCR won't matter at all.

What I wonder is how many bother with it when just plain Kanthal works. It does have advantages over Kanthal - people were starting to try it even before TC, as an alternative to Kanthal. But Kanthal has such a vast following it will probably remain king if it works well for sensor-TC.

But yes, new connectors / backwards compatibility issues could definitely harm adoption. I hope Innokin are working on an adapter so any 510 atty can work on their mod in normal TC mode (resistance not sensor), that will help adoption a lot.




Thanks! I had no idea what GGTS was. Why did it lose out to 510? Where does the mod end and atty begin in that photo? Is the coil somewhere between the silver knurled ring and the brass ring?

I will not mourn the loss of the 510 socket. It cause so many problems, so many inconveniences - the whole craziness with fixed vs sprung pin, attys not going flush, 510s so easy to damage and so easy to get stuck with over-tightening, or poor connections from under-tightening. I so much wish we had some kind of push-fit socket, maybe a single turn of fixed amount to lock. Even something like a bayonet lightbulb socket seems preferable - push in against standard spring, turn by 90°, done.

I'm sure the 510 seemed like a reasonable solution at the time and was never envisaged doing all it does now - as usually happens with quick solutions: "nothing is as permanent as a temporary solution."

The atty in that picture is with a 510 cartomiser, here is the socket for GGTS connection:

And the atty's end of it:

Golden Greek TeleScope with Terminator-C

 

[TheBloke]

Ah interesting, so it's not so much different from a 510 in principle, just a lot wider. And it shares the problem of the 510 that the atty has a 'male' end - that's the biggest annoyance of 510 for me, the silly pin sticking out of every atty making it impossible to put down flat (at least without huge chance of falling over.) I wish they had done it the other way around, like an Ego.

I bought some little stands and I've drilled some circles in a length of wood, but it would be so much nicer if they could have a flat base.

 

[funkyrudi]

Only 2 years ago a GGTS with Ithaka atomizer was state of the art - today it`s history. I still have one clone combination but don`t use it anymore. But it looks nice.
I should have lots of Boge 510 cartonizers too - I loved them

 

[Quantum Mech]

Wow OK! Maybe GGTS = Good God, That Sucks!



Ah great to know. Which type - 316, 317, or something different? What gauge are you using? So far I only have 30G and 25G and I've used the 25G exclusively - it's so easy to work with, both because stainless is strong and malleable and because 25 is pretty thick anyway. That's definitely a strong plus for SS versus both Titanium and Resistherm - Resistherm is Ok to work with but it's only 29G which is a bit thin, and when you twist it as I am now doing into 2x29G, it becomes incredibly springy and harder to work with; it can be torched to improve it, but it doesn't solve the problem completely.



Oh really? In the manual for the UNI-T I got it says K has slightly higher range:

K type: -200.0ºC to +1372ºC (-328.0ºF to +2501ºF)
J type: -210.0ºC to +1200ºC (-346.0ºF to +2192ºF)
T type: -250.0ºC to +400.0ºC (-418.0ºF to +752.0ºF)
E type: -150.0ºC to +1000ºC (-238.0ºF to +1832ºF)

So 172°C more for K - not that it matters, all of them go way beyond the required range for TC. Wikipedia quotes some different general figures, but still have K higher.

So is J better in some other way? Could you elaborate?

I would need to pull out the specs to be exact mate

Best working range for a probe without wondering out of calibration is in its lower range to mid range

K type are used below zero c , J type are not

This would then have a J type working at its best +/- accuracy at the temps your be reading

Thermocouple Types | Temperature Ranges of Thermocouple Types

 

[TheBloke]

OK thanks mate. Something to think about for the future - just had a quick look on eBay and there was literally only one J probe that had the right connector (the single, two-spade connector, which I think is called the Type K plug?). All the rest had two connectors.

This is the ports I will have:

So that's designed to take one of these plugs, which is the one on the probes I already bought:

But all the J probes, bar that one listing, have this double thing:

I guess there's an adapter that can convert between those? And I presume I can't just plug both of those into the same single port on my device?

That one listing that was the right K plug was £15/ea so I don't fancy spending another £30 on two more probes until I've tried out my Ks. Once I've got used to the device maybe I'll buy one J probe and use it together with the K probe to see what difference in temp I get, trying to use both probes to measure the same single spot.

 

[druckle]

OK thanks mate. Something to think about for the future - just had a quick look on eBay and there was literally only one J probe that had the right connector (the single, two-spade connector, which I think is called the Type K plug?). All the rest had two connectors.

This is the ports I will have:

So that's designed to take one of these plugs, which is the one on the probes I already bought:

But all the J probes, bar that one listing, have this double thing:

I guess there's an adapter that can convert between those? And I presume I can't just plug both of those into the same single port on my device?

That one listing that was the right K plug was £15/ea so I don't fancy spending another £30 on two more probes until I've tried out my Ks. Once I've got used to the device maybe I'll buy one J probe and use it together with the K probe to see what difference in temp I get, trying to use both probes to measure the same single spot.

Betcha your K's will do just fine!!

Duane

 

[TheBloke]

Yeah I hope so - I'm not needing lab quality measurements here. Nearest 5°C will be fine, and I'm hopeful that can be achieved.

Quantum said that the more within the max range you are, the better - well the bare, thin wire probes I got are max 260°C. Maybe that will mean using them to test temps of 200-250°C will be optimal, or maybe it doesn't work like that and it needs to be compared to the max of the K spec, not a given probe's. No idea! But I'm hopeful it'll be more than good enough for TC verification.

 

[Quantum Mech]

OK thanks mate. Something to think about for the future - just had a quick look on eBay and there was literally only one J probe that had the right connector (the single, two-spade connector, which I think is called the Type K plug?). All the rest had two connectors.

This is the ports I will have:

So that's designed to take one of these plugs, which is the one on the probes I already bought:

But all the J probes, bar that one listing, have this double thing:

I guess there's an adapter that can convert between those? And I presume I can't just plug both of those into the same single port on my device?

That one listing that was the right K plug was £15/ea so I don't fancy spending another £30 on two more probes until I've tried out my Ks. Once I've got used to the device maybe I'll buy one J probe and use it together with the K probe to see what difference in temp I get, trying to use both probes to measure the same single spot.

The yellow plug opens with them two visible screws

Inside there is two screw terminals where you can attach the J type wires

As Duane said though sure your be fine with the K type

I just am learning your OCD for accuracy and thought best make sure I suggest the best option [ if available and price is right ]

 

[druckle]

The yellow plug opens with them two visible screws

Inside there is two screw terminals where you can attach the J type wires

As Duane said though sure your be fine with the K type

I just am learning your OCD for accuracy and thought best make sure I suggest the best option [ if available and price is right ]

 

[Quantum Mech]

Yeah I hope so - I'm not needing lab quality measurements here. Nearest 5°C will be fine, and I'm hopeful that can be achieved.

Quantum said that the more within the max range you are, the better - well the bare, thin wire probes I got are max 260°C. Maybe that will mean using them to test temps of 200-250°C will be optimal, or maybe it doesn't work like that and it needs to be compared to the max of the K spec, not a given probe's. No idea! But I'm hopeful it'll be more than good enough for TC verification.

Lower range mate

In the upper 3rd of their range they will be +2 & upwards out , but see 5c is good to go