TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[TheBloke]

My brain just melted...

Now can you repeat this for Ti, although you say it's simpler? I would love the the actual curve of Ti and then cross reference both curves in the same graph to make accurate readings between both curves (to establish what ni settings to use to vape Ti on unsupported boards like the dna 40.)

We do have curve data for Ti from that Atomic Energy 1959 report - remember I re-posted their graph in the Ti thread. It curves a hell of a lot less in our range.



That article has the data points from which the graph was made, so we could put that through the same procedure

One caveat is that they measured the overall TCR as around 0.0039 where 35 seems more appropriate to the Grade 1 metal we now use. But I imagine the curve will be similarly flat.

What this does clearly demonstrate is that all measurements need to be taken multiple times, at different target temps. My testing of Ti at 200°C target theoretically might not be be applicable for 220 or 180. Though with Titanium I think it should be close enough. I will do more tests later.

 

[TheBloke]

I think, there is difference between wire and wire, Standards allow some tolerance.
More importantly, we are talking about average temperature. The legs are cooler(preferably) the very middle the hottest (again: preferably)
Manufacturers quite likely tries to compensate for that somehow. E.g. picking one specific build (resistance, likely gauge, ID, wrap counts) and factoring the result accordingly. If your build is different than your result will be different too.
But I have to add, that I don't care about temp setting (readout) at all. At least not in numerical way.
I got a simply trick to set the value where it should be and as long as it is the 20-300C range, I am good.
The fact that I don't know the exact coil temperature and my readout is way off doesn't bother me.

Well sure, all we ultimately care about is a good vape - as long as you have a repeatable good vape, that's all that matters for most cases.

But empirical measurement is very useful to decide general principles, and to calculate guidelines like what Tony is asking for - what settings to use on a Ni200 mod for other wires such as Titanium. And although those graphs you've done are super interesting, they are necessarily making assumptions - because we only have published figures for 100, 200, 300°C and not the numbers in between. It's probably a mostly smooth curve between as your function uses, but not necessarily. Discrete temperature measurement will be useful to fill in the gaps, I believe.

 

[vapealone]

My brain just melted...

Now can you repeat this for Ti, although you say it's simpler? I would love the the actual curve of Ti and then cross reference both curves in the same graph to make accurate readings between both curves (to establish what ni settings to use to vape Ti on unsupported boards like the dna 40.)

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

I will do it if I can find a good datasheet wit initial resistance/temperature
data.
So far I didn't looked into it much.

 

[vapealone]

We do have curve data for Ti from that Atomic Energy 1959 report - remember I re-posted their graph in the Ti thread. It curves a hell of a lot less in our range.



That article has the data points from which the graph was made, so we could put that through the same procedure

One caveat is that they measured the overall TCR as around 0.0039 where 35 seems more appropriate to the Grade 1 metal we now use. But I imagine the curve will be similarly flat.

What this does clearly demonstrate is that all measurements need to be taken multiple times, at different target temps. My testing of Ti at 200°C target theoretically might not be be applicable for 220 or 180. Though with Titanium I think it should be close enough. I will do more tests later.

Yeah
But I need numbers

 

[TheBloke]

Here: http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1049&context=ameslab_iscreports

(Edit to put in the right report)

 

[TheBloke]

^^ put in the right report now

 

[vapealone]

Well sure, all we ultimately care about is a good vape - as long as you have a repeatable good vape, that's all that matters for most cases.

But empirical measurement is very useful to decide general principles, and to calculate guidelines like what Tony is asking for - what settings to use on a Ni200 mod for other wires such as Titanium. And although those graphs you've done are super interesting, they are necessarily making assumptions - because we only have published figures for 100, 200, 300°C and not the numbers in between. It's probably a mostly smooth curve between as your function uses, but not necessarily. Discrete temperature measurement will be useful to fill in the gaps, I believe.

I personally don't think that we need this accuracy. Like I said, I set my temperatures completely blindly and they are just sweet.
I do the math for the fun of it. And I am almost sure that this numbers are far more accurate than e.g. Evolvs board. But doesn't matter to me.

However, I absolutely agree with you that in this area only measurement can give you precise data. All the mathematical hocus-pocus is just approximation. No bulletproof law or formula on hand as per today

 

[vapealone]

Mine is newer
Almost recent
1970

 

[vapealone]

Here: http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1049&context=ameslab_iscreports

(Edit to put in the right report)

But yours is better
page 28,30, 31
I will do it on the weekend, ok?
And update the same google sheet

and @tchavei, I will try to generate some DNA40 temp settings as well

 

[TheBloke]

I personally don't think that we need this accuracy. Like I said, I set my temperatures completely blindly and they are just sweet.
I do the math for the fun of it. And I am almost sure that this numbers are far more accurate than e.g. Evolvs board. But doesn't matter to me.

However, I absolutely agree with you that in this area only measurement can give you precise data. All the mathematical hocus-pocus is just approximation. No bulletproof law or formula on hand as per today

"Oh reason not the need! Our basest beggars are in the poorest thing superfluous. Allow not nature more than nature needs, Man's life as cheap as beast's"

Or put less Shakespeare-ly I agree absolutely we don't need to do this for our own actual end vaping. You find the maths fun. I find the measurement and analysis fun. That's reason enough for me!

But I do think it has wider, general value:

1. Objective quality and accuracy testing of different mods - beyond the basic testing that people like Busardo are doing.
   1. This will be somewhat interesting, if for example we find a certain mod is very accurate at 200°C but inaccurate at 230°C, or whatever might be found.
2. Ditto, on different wires - as I seemed to discover with my Ni200 last night
3. Giving of general advice for Beyond-Ni200 vaping, such as Tony is asking for.
   1. "If I want XXX°C on a Titanium coil but I am using ModX which supposes Ni200, which setting to use?"

Mine is newer
Almost recent
1970

I couldn't find any data tables in that one Can you get the numbers you need from the graphs themselves? Some of them seem to have figures plotted, but I didn't think it had as many discrete figures as the 1959 study.

Also, it looked to me that they only did Ti Alloys, and Ti Grade 3 and 4? I couldn't find Grade 1, though I didn't look super hard. (Eg graph on page 4 shows Ti 65A and 75A which are Grade 3 and 4 respectively, and then the rest seemed to be alloys)

 

[tchavei]

"Oh reason not the need! Our basest beggars are in the poorest thing superfluous. Allow not nature more than nature needs, Man's life as cheap as beast's"

Or put less Shakespeare-ly I agree absolutely we don't need to do this for our own actual end vaping. You find the maths fun. I find the measurement and analysis fun. That's reason enough for me!

But I do think it has wider, general value:

1. Objective quality and accuracy testing of different mods - beyond the basic testing that people like Busardo are doing.
   1. This will be somewhat interesting, if for example we find a certain mod is very accurate at 200°C but inaccurate at 230°C, or whatever might be found.
2. Ditto, on different wires - as I seemed to discover with my Ni200 last night
3. Giving of general advice for Beyond-Ni200 vaping, such as Tony is asking for.
   1. "If I want XXX°C on a Titanium coil but I am using ModX which supposes Ni200, which setting to use?"

I couldn't find any data tables in that one Can you get the numbers you need from the graphs themselves? Some of them seem to have figures plotted, but I didn't think it had as many discrete figures as the 1959 study.

Also, it looked to me that they only did Ti Alloys, and Ti Grade 3 and 4? I couldn't find Grade 1, though I didn't look super hard. (Eg graph on page 4 shows Ti 65A and 75A which are Grade 3 and 4 respectively, and then the rest seemed to be alloys)

I had a program where you could input the axis and click on the line and it would give you the number for every data point you clicked. Came handy at the time but I can't remember the program name.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[druckle]

I had a program where you could input the axis and click on the line and it would give you the number for every data point you clicked. Came handy at the time but I can't remember the program name.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

Tony

I've been looking for a program like that but apparently not hard enough since I haven't come up with one. It's such an obvious thing to need there must be tens of them out there somewhere.

Does a relaxing late night vape help the memory?

Duane

 

[tchavei]

Tony

I've been looking for a program like that but apparently not hard enough since I haven't come up with one. It's such an obvious thing to need there must be tens of them out there somewhere.

Does a relaxing late night vape help the memory?

Duane

Either that or find it again. I used it to get the numbers of a study that I used in a paper I wrote about paravirtualization. Couldn't have access to the raw data so I extracted it from the plots. Was rather easy. I will search up the program tonight.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[SavePaperVapor]

Is their a trick to getting temp control to work? A friend of mine is asking me. He can't get it to stick. I'm trying to troubleshoot through text.... For a device I don't have. lol.

Edit: Seems his device won't work in Fahrenheit. Is this normal?

 

[TheBloke]

Is their a trick to getting temp control to work? A friend of mine is asking me. He can't get it to stick. I'm trying to troubleshoot through text.... For a device I don't have. lol.

Edit: Seems his device won't work in Fahrenheit. Is this normal?

I guess you friend has a Dicodes? Yes it's normal that there's a bug with °F in the Dicodes mods - well, two bugs:

1. TempDown doesn't work for some people (does for me though)
   1. If he can't use TempDown to adjust down the °F, he'll have to keep going TempUp until ti round-robins - quite annoying
2. For all people, it regulates 30°F higher than you set. so if you want 450°F, set 420°F and so on. This is a linear adjustment.

More discussion in the Dicodes thread.

 

[HolmanGT]

Is their a trick to getting temp control to work? A friend of mine is asking me. He can't get it to stick. I'm trying to troubleshoot through text.... For a device I don't have. lol.

Edit: Seems his device won't work in Fahrenheit. Is this normal?

Save...,

What kind of Mod does he have? Also if it does F & C not working in F is not normal.

PS - But then what do I know - Ugh!

 

[TheBloke]

What most Dicodes users are doing is just using °C instead.

• 200°C = 392°F
• 205°C = 401°F
• 210°C = 410°F
• 215°C = 419°F
• 220°C = 428°F
• 225°C = 437°F
• 230°C = 446°F
• 235°C = 455°F

 

[SavePaperVapor]

I guess you friend has a Dicodes? Yes it's normal that there's a bug with °F in the Dicodes mods - well, two bugs:

1. TempDown doesn't work for some people (does for me though)
2. For all people, it regulates 30°F higher than you set. so if you want 450°F, set 420°F and so on. This is a linear adjustment.

More discussion in the Dicodes thread.

Nice. I'll pass it on. Lucky punk found one so I will have to live vicariously through him. Looks dike the Dicodes have dried up.

 

[TheBloke]

Nice. I'll pass it on. Lucky punk found one so I will have to live vicariously through him. Looks dike the Dicodes have dried up.

There was a big shipping strike in Germany that held up shipments to vendors the last week or two. @TheotherSteveS was affected even though he was buying from a German vendor. But his is now due to ship so I think they're moving again.

Yup here you go, this is the vendor that both Steve and I ordered our 2380s from. in stock both of the 2380 and 2380T (the telescope version):

Dicodes 2380 - 2380T | Dicodes | Akkuträger | Greek-Mods

 

[SavePaperVapor]

There was a big shipping strike in Germany that held up shipments to vendors the last week or two. @TheotherSteveS was affected even though he was buying from a German vendor. But his is now due to ship so I think they're moving again.

Yup here you go, this is the vendor that both Steve and I ordered our 2380s from. in stock both of the 2380 and 2380T (the telescope version):

Dicodes 2380 - 2380T | Dicodes | Akkuträger | Greek-Mods

Holy mother of.... I owe you. Now, to decide what version. Probably the standard with the extension.