TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[TheBloke]

SXK TCR scale: for SXK-chip mods, and the Apollo Reliant

The SXK mods with TCR adjustment have been out a number of months, and the new Apollo Reliant just landed using an upgraded version of the same chip. I have the SXK chip to thank for the birth of this thread - my first TCR adjusting mod.

At the time, having no temp testing equipment, I had to reverse engineer the TCR scale using the live resistance display; that was how I even knew it was a TCR scale, as it was unhelpfully labelled "Nickel Purity".

We always knew the scale was 'offset' from what seemed logical. Once I got temp measuring equipment I was able to verify actual numbers, most in particular confirming Titanium @ 0.0035 to be 40, not 35 - hence 'offset'. Likewise, Ni200 was defaulted by SXK to 70, not 60-ish.

When it first came out I assumed this was because of the low resistance problems that plagued the first SXK chips. But recent chips have fixed that, including the Reliant, and the scale remained the same.

Well, after all this time - far too long - I think I have finally worked out the scale. Which was incredibly simple. I don't know why I didn't do it before: first I assumed it was offset because of low resistance, then I assumed they kept it the same after fixing resistance rather than change it.

Assumptions on assumptions.

Here's how it actually appears to work:

1. It's perfectly understandable. It's simply not 1 = 0.0001 as I assumed, it's 1 = 0.0000875.
2. If we describe the the TCR scale of 0.001 to 0.01 as being from 100 to 1000, as Dicodes denote it, then on the SXK/Reliant: 1 = 8.75 instead of 1 = 10 as would seem logical.
3. Therefore the SXK/Reliant scale is 0.000875 to 0.00875, not 0.001 to 0.01.
   1. It's therefore noteworthy that these chips allow the lowest single-number TCR setting of any device. The DNA 200 will probably go lower, but only with curves.
4. To convert the TCR Scale number to the SXK/Reliant scale, we simply divide by 8.75

Below are the appropriate numbers for a bunch of wires. One, Titanium, has been temperature verified. The Ni200 general number matches the recommendations of Apollo. It's these two numbers, plus my subjective experiences of vaping Stainless Steel 304 on the Apollo, that enabled me to be fairly sure of the 1 = 8.75 allocation.

I will verify further numbers soon. But the below matches at least two, probably three data points we have, and so I am reasonably confident in it.

I have listed two numbers for Ni200: the 'general' number uses the approximation 0.006, the number used in many sources including Dicodes, and which matches Apollo's recommendation. And then a more accurate number taken from the Ni200 curve at 230°C/450°F. Other wires with noteworthy curves also have their numbers taken from that point.

All TCR numbers sourced from latest version of @vapealone 's magnus opus.

• Titanium: TCR 0.0035
  • TCR scale number: 350
  • Calculation: 350 / 8.75 = 40
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 40
    • matching my temperature testing.
• Ni200, general: TCR 0.006
  • TCR scale number: 600
  • Calculation: 600 / 8.75 = 68.5
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 69
    • matching the number that Apollo recommends in their Reliant manual.
• Ni200, curve accurate: TCR @ 230°C 0.0054
  • TCR scale number: 540
  • Calculation: 540 / 8.75 = 61.7
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 62
    • Ni200 is a curve, 0.006 is only an approximation across a wider range than we commonly vape
    • At 230°C/450°F, the numbers would suggest 62 is most accurate.
    • Unverified.
• Stainless Steel 304: TCR @ 230°C: 0.00105
  • TCR scale number: 105
  • Calculation: 105 / 8.75 = 12
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 12
    • I've been vaping SS 304 on the Reliant since last night, and my subjective feeling had been that 13 was a better vape than 12.
    • I've since switched to 12 now and it's fine, just perhaps reducing the power slightly earlier than I might have expected - but there could be several reasons for that. I will verify it properly with temp probing tonight.
• Stainless Steel 316: TCR @ 230°C 0.000913
  • TCR scale number: 91
  • Calculation: 91 / 8.75 = 10.4
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 10
    • Unverified.
• Resistherm NiFe30: TCR 0.0032
  • TCR scale number: 320
  • Calculation: 320 / 8.75 = 36.5
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 37
    • Unverified.
• Kanthal NiFe70: TCR 0.0052
  • TCR scale number: 520
  • Calculation: 520 / 8.75 = 59.4
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 59
    • Unverified.
• Kanthal NiFe52: TCR 0.004
  • TCR scale number: 400
  • Calculation: 400 / 8.75 = 45.7
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 46
    • Unverified.

 

[BigEgo]

Here is an excellent technical document about RTD's that is very applicable for our purposes. I especially recommend reading the part about how TCR's can be generated (Callender-Van Dusen equation) starting on page 7. He goes into detail about TCR, the accuracy of different metal elements such as nickel, platinum, NiFe, etc.

 

[AlaskaVaper]

All right, after the disappointment of the NotFi, some new stuff.

• New juice (Cuttwood Sugar Drizzle)
• New RTA (Merkava)
• New TCR mod (Apollo Reliant 60W)
• New wire (SS 304 - the properly labelled stuff, not Crazy Wire NiFaile)
  • 8 x 3.0mm 0.40mm wraps = 0.572Ω on SXM / 0.58Ω on Reliant.
  • VW dry burnt, after coiling, no change in Ω

Followed @vapealone 's chart, telling me 230°C is TCR 0.00104. So I set the Reliant to 11, thinking that at this low level it might not need much if any offset (the SXK mods, and their successor the Reliant, have an offset TCR scale: eg Titanium @ 0.0035 = 40, and Ni200 @ 0.006 = 70).

But at 11 it hit temp immediately, so up to 13. Still hitting temp and showing TP, but only after a couple of seconds. I'll leave it here for now. Might temp probe it tonight, might go to bed and do it tomorrow.

Vaping well so far. I'm liking the Reliant quite a lot. It's the SXK++. Same basic principle, with a lot of spit and polish. For example: quick switch button combo between VW, TC and Mech mods - no more dumb Evolv system of having to turn temperature to OFF and then dial it back in again. In TC mode, simple up/down for temperature control, but still with the ability to change the wattage, accessible via another combo. No obscuring of screen info with a full-screen 'Temperature Protection' message, instead a neat little 'TP' displayed in the gap in the middle.

Subjectively speaking, and perhaps most importantly, the TC seems smoother as well. Though I haven't tested it hard yet.

Which of these improvements are the work of Apollo, and thus to what extent SXK have developed themselves, we won't know until the new SXK Mini Zero is released.

Glad to see the Apollo get down to work. If snyone will search out any major flaws it is "theBloke". I am eagerly awaiting future comments on this mod.

 

[AlaskaVaper]

SXK TCR scale: for SXK-chip mods, and the Apollo Reliant

The SXK mods with TCR adjustment have been out a number of months, and the new Apollo Reliant just landed using an upgraded version of the same chip. I have the SXK chip to thank for the birth of this thread - my first TCR adjusting mod.

At the time, having no temp testing equipment, I had to reverse engineer the TCR scale using the live resistance display; that was how I even knew it was a TCR scale, as it was unhelpfully labelled "Nickel Purity".

We always knew the scale was 'offset' from what seemed logical. Once I got temp measuring equipment I was able to verify actual numbers, most in particular confirming Titanium @ 0.0035 to be 40, not 35 - hence 'offset'. Likewise, Ni200 was defaulted by SXK to 70, not 60-ish.

When it first came out I assumed this was because of the low resistance problems that plagued the first SXK chips. But recent chips have fixed that, including the Reliant, and the scale remained the same.

Well, after all this time - far too long - I think I have finally worked out the scale. Which was incredibly simple. I don't know why I didn't do it before: first I assumed it was offset because of low resistance, then I assumed they kept it the same after fixing resistance rather than change it.

Assumptions on assumptions.

Here's how it actually appears to work:

1. It's perfectly understandable. It's simply not 1 = 0.0001 as I assumed, it's 1 = 0.0000875.
2. If we describe the the TCR scale of 0.001 to 0.01 as being from 100 to 1000, as Dicodes denote it, then on the SXK/Reliant: 1 = 8.75 instead of 1 = 10 as would seem logical.
3. Therefore the SXK/Reliant scale is 0.000875 to 0.00875, not 0.001 to 0.01.
   1. It's therefore noteworthy that these chips allow the lowest single-number TCR setting of any device. The DNA 200 will probably go lower, but only with curves.
4. To convert the TCR Scale number to the SXK/Reliant scale, we simply divide by 8.75

Below are the appropriate numbers for a bunch of wires. One, Titanium, has been temperature verified. The Ni200 general number matches the recommendations of Apollo. It's these two numbers, plus my subjective experiences of vaping Stainless Steel 304 on the Apollo, that enabled me to be fairly sure of the 1 = 8.75 allocation.

I will verify further numbers soon. But the below matches at least two, probably three data points we have, and so I am reasonably confident in it.

I have listed two numbers for Ni200: the 'general' number uses the approximation 0.006, the number used in many sources including Dicodes, and which matches Apollo's recommendation. And then a more accurate number taken from the Ni200 curve at 230°C/450°F. Other wires with noteworthy curves also have their numbers taken from that point.

All TCR numbers sourced from latest version of @vapealone 's magnus opus.

• Titanium: TCR 0.0035
  • TCR scale number: 350
  • Calculation: 350 / 8.75 = 40
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 40
    • matching my temperature testing.
• Ni200, general: TCR 0.006
  • TCR scale number: 600
  • Calculation: 600 / 8.75 = 68.5
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 69
    • matching the number that Apollo recommends in their Reliant manual.
• Ni200, curve accurate: TCR @ 230°C 0.0054
  • TCR scale number: 540
  • Calculation: 540 / 8.75 = 61.7
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 62
    • Ni200 is a curve, 0.006 is only an approximation across a wider range than we commonly vape
    • At 230°C/450°F, the numbers would suggest 62 is most accurate.
    • Unverified.
• Stainless Steel 304: TCR @ 230°C: 0.00105
  • TCR scale number: 105
  • Calculation: 105 / 8.75 = 12
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 12
    • I've been vaping SS 304 on the Reliant since last night, and my subjective feeling had been that 13 was a better vape than 12.
    • I've since switched to 12 now and it's fine, just perhaps reducing the power slightly earlier than I might have expected - but there could be several reasons for that. I will verify it properly with temp probing tonight.
• Stainless Steel 316: TCR @ 230°C 0.000913
  • TCR scale number: 91
  • Calculation: 91 / 8.75 = 10.4
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 10
    • Unverified.
• Resistherm NiFe30: TCR 0.0032
  • TCR scale number: 320
  • Calculation: 320 / 8.75 = 36.5
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 37
    • Unverified.
• Kanthal NiFe70: TCR 0.0052
  • TCR scale number: 520
  • Calculation: 520 / 8.75 = 59.4
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 59
    • Unverified.
• Kanthal NiFe52: TCR 0.004
  • TCR scale number: 400
  • Calculation: 400 / 8.75 = 45.7
  • Reliant/SXK setting: 46
    • Unverified.

Very good info and adjustment values. We really need something like stickies so these tests can be easily filed away.

 

[TheBloke]

Crazy Wire "Ni70Fe30" wire update

Quick summary: I emailed them Tuesday night, they responded first thing Wednesday saying they'd investigate and get back to me "by end of day". Didn't hear anything further on Wednesday nor today, Thursday.

Background

In case anyone missed the original posts: I received three x 25m spools of their new "NiFe30 / Ni70Fe30" wire on Tuesday 8th, in (supposedly) 0.40 (26G), 0.35 (27G) and 0.32 (28G)

I found the 0.32 spool was actually also 0.35 - or rather, around 0.345 based on the very slightly higher resistance reading compared to the 0.35.

I found the wire itself was unlike any NiFe70/30 I'd tried or heard about. The resistance was way higher, the TCR was way lower, and it was non-magnetic.

In fact, I ultimately decided the wire had to be Stainless Steel 304, based on the resistance readings of 0.40mm and 0.35mm wire being identical - literally, to three decimal places - to SS 304, and the TCR being similarly identical at 0.001 at 300°C.

I emailed Crazy Wire about this late on Tuesday night.

Wednesday
I received a reply first thing Wednesday morning, before 9am. So the first response was very prompt

I was told that no-one else had reported any problems, and they do have "certifications and quality assurance" on all wire. He promised to send me the certification - albeit "redacted" - and get back to me by end of day.

They also refunded me for the Recorded Delivery I paid for but did not receive.

But I did not then hear back from them by end of day as they had indicated I would.

In the meantime, I did more reading, particularly of the NiFe alloy document that @druckle mentioned. Reading this document, with some further help from Duane, convinced me that any wire labelled Ni70Fe30 had to be magentic.

Specifically, the document says that binary Ni/Fe alloys are magnetic from about 30% Nickel content upwards, with the Curie Point being room temperature at 28% Ni up to about 600°C for 68% Nickel.

Discussing this with Duane, it was agreed that unless the wire contain significant amounts of other alloys - enough for it to no longer fit the description of Ni70Fe30 - it had to be magnetic.

I emailed this further update to Crazy Wire late last night, also saying that yes I very much looked forward to seeing the wire data sheet which we would want to see in any case, and that I hoped to hear back from him very soon.

Thursday
No further word from Crazy Wire.

I've just done another test, which I think provides further confirmation that this wire is SS 304. Or at least, is yet another in a long line of matching attributes.

The other day BigEgo linked to a document describing the magneticism of Stainless Steels, which mentioned that SS 304 can become slightly magnetic if "deformed." I read another article today, which compared SS 304 to 316, pointing out that 304 is more magnetic (permeable) than 316 and again saying that under certain conditions it can become lightly magnetic - it mentioned hard drawing and welding and some other cases.

So I ran a test of the only method I could think of to heavily agitate the wire:

• I cut a section of about 30cm of SS 304, and confirmed it was not magnetic against my neodymium N52 magnets
  • I then work hardened it in my drill, holding it tight between the chuck and pliers and spinning it very fast
  • This was enough to make it lightly magnetic - enough so the 30cm weight was supported when I let it hang vertically from one magnet
  • An hour later, it's still there, so the change seems permanent
• I repeated this test with 30cm of Crazy Wire's crazy wire.
  • Exactly the same result - non-magnetic at first, magnetised by work hardening
  • This is yet another property match with SS 304, and one that would not be matched with other grades of SS eg 316 or 317.

I didn't really need another test to tell me the wire wasn't NiFe and almost certainly was SS 304, but it was interesting to do

I am going to email Crazy yet again, pointing out this new confirmation, and we'll see if I finally hear back tomorrow, Friday.

 

[TheBloke]

Stealth Vape NiFe70 availability update

On a happier note, I had confirmation from Rob that wire should be available soon.

Yesterday he said production ETA was "a week away", and then delivery would take 3-5 days.

From that, it sounds like it should be available for purchase during the week commencing 21st September.

ZiVipf NiFe52 non-update update

For completeness: no further update from Zivipf. Today is 14 days since Thomas placed the order, and he said he thought it would take about two weeks. I don't know if that includes the time it takes to be delivered to him.

He said he'd contact me as soon as it's there so I will wait to hear. But I am hoping there's still an outside chance I might be able to get it by end of next week - if he receives it say Monday or Tuesday then I might be able to get it from Germany to UK in that time. The last order from him was sent on a Tuesday and arrived on Saturday, and I'll probably get the fastest shipping for the NiFe52 order.

Not sure the status of NiFe70 in larger sizes, which he said he planned to get in as well. It's probably been ordered, but if so it would have been at least a couple of days after the NiFe52 so will take a little while longer to come in.

 

[druckle]

Crazy Wire "Ni70Fe30" wire update

Quick summary: I emailed them Tuesday night, they responded first thing Wednesday saying they'd investigate and get back to me "by end of day". Didn't hear anything further on Wednesday nor today, Thursday.

Background

In case anyone missed the original posts: I received three x 25m spools of their new "NiFe30 / Ni70Fe30" wire on Tuesday 8th, in (supposedly) 0.40 (26G), 0.35 (27G) and 0.32 (28G)

I found the 0.32 spool was actually also 0.35 - or rather, around 0.345 based on the very slightly higher resistance reading compared to the 0.35.

I found the wire itself was unlike any NiFe70/30 I'd tried or heard about. The resistance was way higher, the TCR was way lower, and it was non-magnetic.

In fact, I ultimately decided the wire had to be Stainless Steel 304, based on the resistance readings of 0.40mm and 0.35mm wire being identical - literally, to three decimal places - to SS 304, and the TCR being similarly identical at 0.001 at 300°C.

I emailed Crazy Wire about this late on Tuesday night.

Wednesday
I received a reply first thing Wednesday morning, before 9am. So the first response was very prompt

I was told that no-one else had reported any problems, and they do have "certifications and quality assurance" on all wire. He promised to send me the certification - albeit "redacted" - and get back to me by end of day.

They also refunded me for the Recorded Delivery I paid for but did not receive.

But I did not then hear back from them by end of day as they had indicated I would.

In the meantime, I did more reading, particularly of the NiFe alloy document that @druckle mentioned. Reading this document, with some further help from Duane, convinced me that any wire labelled Ni70Fe30 had to be magentic.

Specifically, the document says that binary Ni/Fe alloys are magnetic from about 30% Nickel content upwards, with the Curie Point being room temperature at 28% Ni up to about 600°C for 68% Nickel.

Discussing this with Duane, it was agreed that unless the wire contain significant amounts of other alloys - enough for it to no longer fit the description of Ni70Fe30 - it had to be magnetic.

I emailed this further update to Crazy Wire late last night, also saying that yes I very much looked forward to seeing the wire data sheet which we would want to see in any case, and that I hoped to hear back from him very soon.

Thursday
No further word from Crazy Wire.

I've just done another test, which I think provides further confirmation that this wire is SS 304. Or at least, is yet another in a long line of matching attributes.

The other day BigEgo linked to a document describing the magneticism of Stainless Steels, which mentioned that SS 304 can become slightly magnetic if "deformed." I read another article today, which compared SS 304 to 316, pointing out that 304 is more magnetic (permeable) than 316 and again saying that under certain conditions it can become lightly magnetic - it mentioned hard drawing and welding and some other cases.

So I ran a test of the only method I could think of to heavily agitate the wire:

• I cut a section of about 30cm of SS 304, and confirmed it was not magnetic against my neodymium N52 magnets
  • I then work hardened it in my drill, holding it tight between the chuck and pliers and spinning it very fast
  • This was enough to make it lightly magnetic - enough so the 30cm weight was supported when I let it hang vertically from one magnet
  • An hour later, it's still there, so the change seems permanent
• I repeated this test with 30cm of Crazy Wire's crazy wire.
  • Exactly the same result - non-magnetic at first, magnetised by work hardening
  • This is yet another property match with SS 304, and one that would not be matched with other grades of SS eg 316 or 317.

I didn't really need another test to tell me the wire wasn't NiFe and almost certainly was SS 304, but it was interesting to do

I am going to email Crazy yet again, pointing out this new confirmation, and we'll see if I finally hear back tomorrow, Friday.

I think we are now trying to confirm the characteristics of Crazy Wire or their suppliers or their employees....and not the identity of the wire that Crazy Wire sent you. It well could be that someone spooled the wrong wire and mislabled it, or their supplier made a huge error and sent the wrong stuff to them. Now the question is what happens next. I love a good detective story.

 

[Devlinukr]

Bloke I don't suppose you've got one of those charts for the x-cube 2 laying about anywhere have ya?

Getting better results from it as time goes by but a professional opinion would rock.

 

[TheBloke]

Bloke I don't suppose you've got one of those charts for the x-cube 2 laying about anywhere have ya?

Getting better results from it as time goes by but a professional opinion would rock.

Lying around no, but I finally got my temp testing rig all set up again last night so I will have soon. As a rule of thumb I set it 25-30°C higher than I want it, eg 250-260°C instead of 230°C.

I'll try to get to it tonight after I've finished testing another couple of mods I've promised

 

[Landman]

Brief update on Unkamen and the NiFe52 - Ralph said the mill he orders from can make it, but they want him to commit to a very large quantity. So, I'm not sure just yet if he'll carry it or not - waiting for the final verdict.

Update - just as soon as I posted this, he replied back and it's good news! He stated the mill production will be 10 days so it should be about 2 weeks and he'll have the wire in. He's offering a pre-order sale here in 24/26/28 awg's. He also stated he's had some interest in 20 awg and may get that in his next production order.
He also will have 317L in October and is offering it in the same pre-order sale here.

Woohoo!

 

[tchavei]

I think we are now trying to confirm the characteristics of Crazy Wire or their suppliers or their employees....and not the identity of the wire that Crazy Wire sent you. It well could be that someone spooled the wrong wire and mislabled it, or their supplier made a huge error and sent the wrong stuff to them. Now the question is what happens next. I love a good detective story.

Tony - > nods in agreement while he takes another draw on his Ti build and grabs the popcorn

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[BigEgo]

Brief update on Unkamen and the NiFe52 - Ralph said the mill he orders from can make it, but they want him to commit to a very large quantity. So, I'm not sure just yet if he'll carry it or not - waiting for the final verdict.

Update - just as soon as I posted this, he replied back and it's good news! He stated the mill production will be 10 days so it should be about 2 weeks and he'll have the wire in. He's offering a pre-order sale here in 24/26/28 awg's. He also stated he's had some interest in 20 awg and may get that in his next production order.
He also will have 317L in October and is offering it in the same pre-order sale here.

Woohoo!

Interesting. He must be taking lots of orders from vapers for him to carry a wire that has no significance to jewelry.

 

[TheBloke]

Brief update on Unkamen and the NiFe52 - Ralph said the mill he orders from can make it, but they want him to commit to a very large quantity. So, I'm not sure just yet if he'll carry it or not - waiting for the final verdict.

Update - just as soon as I posted this, he replied back and it's good news! He stated the mill production will be 10 days so it should be about 2 weeks and he'll have the wire in. He's offering a pre-order sale here in 24/26/28 awg's. He also stated he's had some interest in 20 awg and may get that in his next production order.
He also will have 317L in October and is offering it in the same pre-order sale here.

Woohoo!

Wow great work! I'm gonna order some just so he feels validated in his purchase, even though it should be 100% identical to the stuff that Thomas gets in at ZiVipf

Edit: No wait! He's getting 24G, which Thomas won't have. Awesome!

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Darn! Too bad we can't just use nickle free Stainless Steel wire. Unkamen is selling that for $5 per 200 ft. roll! We could do a group buy for one roll!

28 gauge Stainless Steel Wire - Nickel Free - 200 Feet - Introductory – Unkamen Supplies

 

[TheBloke]

Darn! Too bad we can't just use nickle free Stainless Steel wire. Unkamen is selling that for $5 per 200 ft. roll! We could do a group buy for one roll!

28 gauge Stainless Steel Wire - Nickel Free - 200 Feet - Introductory – Unkamen Supplies

Sure we can, SS 430, TCR around 0.0014, the best of the stainless steels (that we can get today - SS 410 is a bit higher.) @Landman is TC vaping it right now I will have some to try in a week or so, thanks to Landman.

More accurate/sensitive than SS 304, and much more than SS 316, but at the downside of not quite as nice to use - springy, where other SS' are not. But it's definitely a contender, and yes is 0% nickel which could be a big plus for some.

 

[Landman]

Darn! Too bad we can't just use nickle free Stainless Steel wire. Unkamen is selling that for $5 per 200 ft. roll! We could do a group buy for one roll!

28 gauge Stainless Steel Wire - Nickel Free - 200 Feet - Introductory – Unkamen Supplies

Sure we can, SS 430, TCR around 0.0014, the best of the stainless steels. @Landman is TC vaping it right now I will have some to try in a week or so, thanks to Landman.

More accurate/sensitive than SS 304, and much more than SS 316, but at the downside of not quite as nice to use - springy, where other SS' are not. But it's definitely a contender, and yes is 0% nickel which could be a big plus for some.

Yep, it's working out very nice so far. I think 26 awg would be much better, but a twisted 28 is vaping very fine... going to try a triple twisted next and see how it comes out.

 

[TheBloke]

Right, order placed for NiFe52 at Unkamen. 24 and 26 gauge. Great work Landman!

I was really tempted to try Niobium too Double the resistance of Ni200 at TCR around 0.004, so it's going to be pretty low on the sensitivity/accuracy scale.

I definitely would have except it's $20 for 6 meters of 28G Also he has a whole bunch of colours and I certainly don't want extra stuff added to make coloured wire. I wasn't sure which, if any, was uncoloured - "Natural Silver" sounded plausible except Wikipedia says it's naturally grey coloured.

I'll give it a miss for now given the cost. I see it's a naturally inert metal, so perhaps it has advantages there. And it's more accurate than Ni200 (what isn't?) so it should be more than accurate enough.

I'll save that for another day

 

[jazzvaper]

Darn! Too bad we can't just use nickle free Stainless Steel wire. Unkamen is selling that for $5 per 200 ft. roll! We could do a group buy for one roll!

28 gauge Stainless Steel Wire - Nickel Free - 200 Feet - Introductory – Unkamen Supplies

I bought two spools two days ago. Soon I'll have enough wire to build a fence...or a wall? [emoji57]

 

[druckle]

Darn! Too bad we can't just use nickle free Stainless Steel wire. Unkamen is selling that for $5 per 200 ft. roll! We could do a group buy for one roll!

28 gauge Stainless Steel Wire - Nickel Free - 200 Feet - Introductory – Unkamen Supplies

I think I heard that this is ss 430 but I'm not sure about that. Does anyone have confirmation on what alloy they are offering?

Duane

 

[jazzvaper]

I think I heard that this is ss 430 but I'm not sure about that. Does anyone have confirmation on what alloy they are offering?

Duane

I just sent an email request for confirmation of the grade. Should hear 'from the horse's mouth' soon...

OT: Which leads me back to a near collision earlier today. As much as I loath the phrase "it's in my/our DNA" when it has nothing to do with physiology...it is in my DNA (my actual experience) to call to question faulty analysis by "experts", especially experts having a vested interest in a result.