TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[druckle]

Right, order placed for NiFe52 at Unkamen. 24 and 26 gauge. Great work Landman!

I was really tempted to try Niobium too Double the resistance of Ni200 at TCR around 0.004, so it's going to be pretty low on the sensitivity/accuracy scale.

I definitely would have except it's $20 for 6 meters of 28G Also he has a whole bunch of colours and I certainly don't want extra stuff added to make coloured wire. I wasn't sure which, if any, was uncoloured - "Natural Silver" sounded plausible except Wikipedia says it's naturally grey coloured.

I'll give it a miss for now given the cost. I see it's a naturally inert metal, so perhaps it has advantages there. And it's more accurate than Ni200 (what isn't?) so it should be more than accurate enough.

I'll save that for another day

Tom

I'd bet the colors on the niobium wire are achieved in the same way as they are for titanium (interference colors from thin oxide surface layer).

Is there any known (or surmised) benefit of spending more money on niobium when titanium works so well and is cheap?

Duane

 

[druckle]

Tom

I'd bet the colors on the niobium wire are achieved in the same way as they are for titanium (interference colors from thin oxide surface layer).

Is there any known (or surmised) benefit of spending more money on niobium when titanium works so well and is cheap?

Duane

OH....I forgot, part of the purpose of this thread (at least for me) is to have fun.

Niobium? Why not?

Duane

 

[balazsk]

I think I heard that this is ss 430 but I'm not sure about that. Does anyone have confirmation on what alloy they are offering?

Duane

It is sure that this one is 430: Stainless Steel Wire - Nickel Free Grade 430 – Unkamen Supplies
But we don't have any information about the 28 gauge version.

 

[Landman]

I think I heard that this is ss 430 but I'm not sure about that. Does anyone have confirmation on what alloy they are offering?

Duane

I just sent an email request for confirmation of the grade. Should hear 'from the horse's mouth' soon...

OT: Which leads me back to a near collision earlier today. As much as I loath the phrase "it's in my/our dna" when it has nothing to do with physiology...it is in my dna (my actual experience) to call to question faulty analysis by "experts", especially experts having a vested interest in a result.

I can confirm it's SS430 - it's what I bought. Ralph said all his SS that's marked nickel free is 430.

 

[Vapin Dave]

Sure we can, SS 430, TCR around 0.0014, the best of the stainless steels (that we can get today - SS 410 is a bit higher.) @Landman is TC vaping it right now I will have some to try in a week or so, thanks to Landman.

More accurate/sensitive than SS 304, and much more than SS 316, but at the downside of not quite as nice to use - springy, where other SS' are not. But it's definitely a contender, and yes is 0% nickel which could be a big plus for some.

I am using some now as well. I like that it can be used in temp controlled and normal mods.

 

[TheBloke]

Tom

I'd bet the colors on the niobium wire are achieved in the same way as they are for titanium (interference colors from thin oxide surface layer).

Is there any known (or surmised) benefit of spending more money on niobium when titanium works so well and is cheap?

Duane

Nope, it's just another wire that would theoretically work for TC vaping and thus I want to test to see what, if any benefits it might have.

It might be dry burnable, it might be as nice to coil as SS, or it might blow up in my face. Can't know until someone tries it, or at least until facts are found that describe whether it definitely will or won't do those things.

But yes cost is a deterant to trying it in the short term.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

I hate to ask you very clever gentlemen to downshift when you are clearly on a roll. However, for a user who does not have a Dicodes or DNA200 (IPV4s w/ YiHi SX330-V4S) are these metals besides Ti and Ni200 usable without some kind of firmware upgrade?

Assuming Ti's TCR is relatively flat, can Ti mode just be used but with a temperature offset for the TCR difference? I love what you are all finding but I'm not sure I can take advantage of it with my present gear.

 

[TheBloke]

And re the colours - yeah maybe some are achieved through heating. But "Peacock Rainbow" I'm assuming is not? Then again I dunno, maybe they can selectively heat some parts and not others with a sort of heat mask?

 

[TheBloke]

I hate to ask you very clever gentlemen to downshift when you are clearly on a roll. However, for a user who does not have a Dicodes or DNA200 (IPV4s w/ YiHi SX330-V4S) are these metals besides Ti and Ni200 usable without some kind of firmware upgrade?

Assuming Ti's TCR is relatively flat, can Ti mode just be used but with a temperature offset for the TCR difference? I love what you are all finding but I'm not sure I can take advantage of it with my present gear.

The Nife wires definitely are, and ditto others with TCR of 0.003+

Stainless Steel 430 almost certainly is.

Stainless Steel 304 may or may not be. I've heard reports it doesn't work, I've heard reports it does work OK. Well, the former told me it did prevent dry hits but failed a cotton burn test, so that's still "good enough". The latter just said he got no dry hits.

I'm going to temp test that in the next 48 hours so watch this space.

 

[TheBloke]

Oh and yes good point regarding Titanium mode - what I said above applies to Ni200 mode, eg DNA 40. With a new Titanium mode mod, the chance of a temperature offset working increases, because the TCR of Titanium is lower than that of Ni200 and so the offset required is smaller.

I feel fairly confident in betting that yes SS 304 should work on any Titanium mode, with a suitable offset.

 

[TheBloke]

Though also don't forget that TCR adjusting mods can now be had for $50, so a DNA 200 or Dicodes 2380 is certainly not required to get no-offset vaping of any wire

In fact, the Smok Koopor is only $35 - its TCR adjustment doesn't currently go down to SS, but its bigger brother the Smok XCube 2 has just had an update to support TCR down to SS and the Koopor is FW upgrasdeable so there's a good chance it will come to there too.

The Smok XCube 2 is about $70 from China I think. The Apollo Reliant is a slightly higher end choice, and proving to be very accurate with SS - about £60 from the UK/EU and I think $80 in the US.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

The Nife wires definitely are, and ditto others with TCR of 0.003+

Stainless Steel 430 almost certainly is.

Stainless Steel 304 may or may not be. I've heard reports it doesn't work, I've heard reports it does work OK. Well, the former told me it did prevent dry hits but failed a cotton burn test, so that's still "good enough". The latter just said he got no dry hits.

I'm going to temp test that in the next 48 hours so watch this space.

Well, I'd just like to thank the HELL outta you guys. I am learning things at a mind blowing pace that just HAS to be great for my aging brain.
I feel like a Cerebral Cinderella at the Royal Brain Ball!

 

[druckle]

And re the colours - yeah maybe some are achieved through heating. But "Peacock Rainbow" I'm assuming is not? Then again I dunno, maybe they can selectively heat some parts and not others with a sort of heat mask?

I expect they just run it through an induction heating coil with a varying power signal. Could be done at a decent MPH rate.

Duane

 

[TheBloke]

Well, I'd just like to thank the HELL outta you guys. I am learning things at a mind blowing pace that just HAS to be great for my aging brain.
I feel like a Cerebral Cinderella at the Royal Brain Ball!

Great to hear it

As a final point on offsets: offsets on a DNA 40 will differ to all other mods. The numbers to use for a DNA 40 can be got immediately from the Steam Engine Wire Wizard, the "Ni200 equivalence" chart.

That doesn't tell us if the DNA 40 is actual accurate at maintaining the theoretical target temperatures - we know it is with Titanium and NiFe, but, theoretically, it might not be with very low TCR materials like SS. So I will test that.

For Ni200-only mods besides the DNA 40, the theoretical "Ni200 equivalence" numbers don't work because most/all other mods/chips haven't implemented the full Ni200 curve like Evolv did. And Titanium mode offsets will be completely different of course.

I will test SS 304 accuracy and required setting to achieve a range of target temperatures on:

• DNA 40 (Ni200)
• Yihi SXM in Ni200 mode
• Yihi SXM in Titanium mode
• Kangxin Mini VF (Rayn DNA 40 clone) (Ni200)

That should give us a good enough range.

I won't test SS 316/317 for now because its TCR is even lower, and it has no advantage over 304 that I can see to make up for having a lower TCR. So SS 304 is currently my sole recommended SS grade in the 3XX range.

(Though if you can't get SS 304, SS 316/317 is still fine - so actually maybe I will do figures for it sometime, as 304 might not be available everywhere that 316 is.)

I'll test 430 as soon as I get it, 7-10 days.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Thank you again @TheBloke . Woo Hoo, fortunately, I have a Smok Xcube II coming my way from the contest here. So I am GOOD to go. I'll just go back to learnking now..

Oh, and as a meager offering of knowledge on this subject, I did some digging and found that the black stuff on our Ti wire is most likely NOT graphite. Graphite is often used for drawing most wires, but the properties of Titanium much more commonly require the use of Molybdenum DiSulfide for it's superior anti-galling properties. Heating of Molybdenum DiSulfide does produce Molybdenum TriOxide, which has some small concerns regarding inhalation from what I can gather.

 

[druckle]

Thank you again @TheBloke . Woo Hoo, fortunately, I have a Smok Xcube II coming my way from the contest here. So I am GOOD to go. I'll just go back to learnking now..

Learnking? Is that a typo or what I do on the thread a lot.....LURNKING (lurking/learning)

Duane

 

[TheBloke]

Thank you again @TheBloke . Woo Hoo, fortunately, I have a Smok Xcube II coming my way from the contest here. So I am GOOD to go. I'll just go back to learnking now..

Oh awesome! Great stuff, well done.

It's an odd mod in some ways, and has the appearance of being unfinished in several respects. But it's also a dual-battery, up-to-160W TCR adjusting mod which is fairly accurate once you know what offset to use and can broadcast vape figures to your phone And it has a great UI, one of the best of any mods - a decent menu combined with lots of shortcuts. It saddens me that I actually have to list that as a benefit, but I do!

The main thing to be aware with it is that it under-heats at all TCRs/with all wires. If you want 230°C, you need to set 250 or 260°C. That sounds crap and well, it is a bit, but once you know that you just remember to set the temp higher and you're fine. Or, it might be that we can just set the TCR a little different to adjust for that, and that is what I will be testing very soon.

Congrats!

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Learnking? Is that a typo or what I do on the thread a lot.....LURNKING (lurking/learning)

Duane

It was completely intentional. You guys have fun with Materials. For me, it's all about the words.

 

[jazzvaper]

I can confirm it's SS430 - it's what I bought. Ralph said all his SS that's marked nickel free is 430.

Double confirmation:

I hope you didn't bet much money - it is 430. I am sorry for not making that clear - I just updated the listing.
I don't have 316L in stock in 28 gauge, but do have 317L on order:
Preorder SALE - 317L Stainless Steel Wire - 100% Guarantee - You Pick – Unkamen Supplies

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Shopify Notification <mailer@shopify.com> wrote:
Contact Form Submission:

Name:
Email:
Body: I placed an order [HASHTAG]#4154[/HASHTAG] two day ago for 28 gauge SS. Your site did not give indication as to the grade.

Some confusion among my friends. I believe that wire is 316L. They say it is 430.

Please confirm the grade. Thanx!

 

[Landman]

Okay, triple 28 ga SS430, 2.75 mm, 6 wrap lightly contacting, 0.245 ohm... oh helllllz yeah, that's crazy good!