The Cola Method Taken to Another Level That Works
- Thread starter Sun Vaporer
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Yes sun I remember that post....we all thought it sounded like it must be the same as nail varnish remover but I never did try that because there didn't seem to be much excitement over it working, it's one of the very few things I haven't tried....lol
Oh ..just thought I would mention....... 5% phosphoric acid seems a waste of time.....I have had some coils soaking for 24 hours in that with no visible change.
I see that Pete reports no change at 5% and would agree that a gradual approach upward in concentration is the next step in experimenting to see what the minumium concentration is that works. An experiment lining up 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, --Etc- may be in order to visually see the optimal mantenince concentration for cleaning on a regular bases???----Sun
I'll have to do some math, then, damnit...I hate math.
Keep in mind that it's not the % or concentration of the active ingredient as much as it is the pH of the product that will make the difference.
This is a fairly complex chemical equation that involves concentration, molarity, etc...but based on what I'm seeing (just from looking around, not doing the actual math) the pH of a 75% solution of Phosphoric Acid may be in the 2.5 range.
If this is the case, RC cola is actually MORE acidic than this stuff (with a pH of 2.3). That's not to say that this stuff won't work better because of purity of the acid but keep in mind that it's not the concentration of an acid as much as it is the pH that determines its ability to rip sh.t up.
I'll do some more looking and try to avoid math.
Keep in mind that it's not the % or concentration of the active ingredient as much as it is the pH of the product that will make the difference.
This is a fairly complex chemical equation that involves concentration, molarity, etc...but based on what I'm seeing (just from looking around, not doing the actual math) the pH of a 75% solution of Phosphoric Acid may be in the 2.5 range.
If this is the case, RC cola is actually MORE acidic than this stuff (with a pH of 2.3). That's not to say that this stuff won't work better because of purity of the acid but keep in mind that it's not the concentration of an acid as much as it is the pH that determines its ability to rip sh.t up.
I'll do some more looking and try to avoid math.
Good ideas, Pete and Sun.
But remember that the acid can weaken the deposit so it falls off after start vaping again. That complicates matters a bit but it can still be possible to determine the minimum to work effectively on a bad atomiser in say 8 hours.
Perhaps also, what concentration begins removing paint, or skin (eek) ...
But remember that the acid can weaken the deposit so it falls off after start vaping again. That complicates matters a bit but it can still be possible to determine the minimum to work effectively on a bad atomiser in say 8 hours.
Perhaps also, what concentration begins removing paint, or skin (eek) ...
75% phosphoric acid has a pH of 1.6
Lemon Juice has a pH of 2.2 (see vinegar link)
Vinegar has a pH of 2.4 (http://www.apple-cider-vinegar-benefits.com/properties-of-vinegar.html)
Cola has a pH about 2.75
The differences are much greater than they look as pH is not a linear scale.
Phosphoric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This suggests cola being equivalent to about 20% phosphoric acid. So we culd perhaps test just 35%, 55% and 75%.
Lemon Juice has a pH of 2.2 (see vinegar link)
Vinegar has a pH of 2.4 (http://www.apple-cider-vinegar-benefits.com/properties-of-vinegar.html)
Cola has a pH about 2.75
The differences are much greater than they look as pH is not a linear scale.
Phosphoric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This suggests cola being equivalent to about 20% phosphoric acid. So we culd perhaps test just 35%, 55% and 75%.
Last edited:
I'll have to do some math, then, damnit...I hate math.
Keep in mind that it's not the % or concentration of the active ingredient as much as it is the pH of the product that will make the difference.
This is a fairly complex chemical equation that involves concentration, molarity, etc...but based on what I'm seeing (just from looking around, not doing the actual math) the pH of a 75% solution of Phosphoric Acid may be in the 2.5 range.
If this is the case, RC cola is actually MORE acidic than this stuff (with a pH of 2.3). That's not to say that this stuff won't work better because of purity of the acid but keep in mind that it's not the concentration of an acid as much as it is the pH that determines its ability to rip sh.t up.
I'll do some more looking and try to avoid math.
Terraphon--You are the one who knows how to do the calculations and I know how much a pain it the .... it is, but your help is invaluable ans appreciated--Thanks --Sun
Yeah, this looks to be about right (edited, no longer necessary).
Regardless, it looks like the 75% phos. acid is a lower pH and would be more effective.
Last edited:
I just stumbled accross this thread today so I'm not up to date on all the issues and really dont wanna read thru endless posts to answer a simple question...
Has anyone been able to determine what the residues are that are fouling your atomizers? Is it a solid ( like the Atom. got too hot and burnt the liquid?) A viscous liquid? ( like a goopy glop of flavoring byproduct? )
Maybe a little info as to what your trying to remove and I may be able to help find a remedy.
I've only been vaping for a short time and have kept my atomizers cleaned religously, so I haven't seen the same issues you all are facing.
Has anyone been able to determine what the residues are that are fouling your atomizers? Is it a solid ( like the Atom. got too hot and burnt the liquid?) A viscous liquid? ( like a goopy glop of flavoring byproduct? )
Maybe a little info as to what your trying to remove and I may be able to help find a remedy.
I've only been vaping for a short time and have kept my atomizers cleaned religously, so I haven't seen the same issues you all are facing.
StarSan is a phosphoric acid based cleaner/sanitizer. Not sure of the concentration, but I know that when the concentrate is mixed at about 1/4 cup to a gallon of water, it's not rough on your hands and does a fantastic job sanitizing brewing equipment. (Sorry-bit of a beer nut) You can also use BLC-it's used to remove beerstone from kegging equipment and beer lines... StarSan can be had fairly cheap as well-either online or at your local brew shop. Hell-if you stop into a brew shop, the guys running the place probably have all kinds of tips and tricks to clean nastiness out of hard to reach places, and you'll probably get to sample some homebrewed beer as well...
Hi GTester - interesting tip, thanks.
Was just reading some info on a brewing site (BT - Troubleshooter: Vol. 4, No. 1) and it's worth posting a part; good advice on diluting a strong acid:
"Highly concentrated phosphoric acid is corrosive and dangerous (though not quite as problematic as nitric or sulfuric acid). I once spilled a drop of the 75% solution on my skin and found that it took a minute or so for it to start burning. Getting it into the eye, however, could result in instantaneous damage. For that reason I urge you to wear safety glasses or goggles, as well as rubber gloves, when handling the concentrated solution. Always work near a supply of running water, in case a spill requires a quick washdown. And finally, remember the motto of Joe Hale (my high school chemistry teacher): Do what you oughter, pour acid into water! Pouring water into acid can cause bubbling, hissing, and splashing."
ps: Terraphon, i got that wrong; cola pH is 2.75
edit (add): I doubt any point in a lower concentration than 35% (or 37.5%) as cola is around 20% equivalent (assuming that is about right, seems high). Hopefully 35% will work ok, although that would probably still be harsh on skin contact.
Was just reading some info on a brewing site (BT - Troubleshooter: Vol. 4, No. 1) and it's worth posting a part; good advice on diluting a strong acid:
"Highly concentrated phosphoric acid is corrosive and dangerous (though not quite as problematic as nitric or sulfuric acid). I once spilled a drop of the 75% solution on my skin and found that it took a minute or so for it to start burning. Getting it into the eye, however, could result in instantaneous damage. For that reason I urge you to wear safety glasses or goggles, as well as rubber gloves, when handling the concentrated solution. Always work near a supply of running water, in case a spill requires a quick washdown. And finally, remember the motto of Joe Hale (my high school chemistry teacher): Do what you oughter, pour acid into water! Pouring water into acid can cause bubbling, hissing, and splashing."
ps: Terraphon, i got that wrong; cola pH is 2.75
edit (add): I doubt any point in a lower concentration than 35% (or 37.5%) as cola is around 20% equivalent (assuming that is about right, seems high). Hopefully 35% will work ok, although that would probably still be harsh on skin contact.
Last edited:
Actually, you SHOULD read the thread. You should also read the thread about dead pen-style atomizers. This would give you an idea where we're at and what we're working on.
There's no way for us to encapsulate a pretty little answer into one post but I can tell you that we're working on removing carbon buildup from the atomizer coil which, if left to build up over time, can actually physically break the coil / wiring inside by forcing the atomizer to move.
We've put WEEKS of research, testing, labor and discussion in to this issue (not to mention the money that we've invested in buying product, shipping things back and forth, testing chemical solutions, etc...) and that, in and of itself, makes the threads deserving of a good read-through.
Terra,
I certainly was not implying that the thread was not "worth my time" or doesn't contain valuable information based on alot of effort expended by the members.
It's simply not a problem that I've had to deal with yet.
But I do work with several industrial/pharma chemists that are typically anxious to offer helpful advice to a friend.
I'll definitely read through this thread as time permits. Just thought if everyone was dealing with a known residue I could pose a few questions at work tomorrow and get some helpful suggestions.
Mike
I certainly was not implying that the thread was not "worth my time" or doesn't contain valuable information based on alot of effort expended by the members.
It's simply not a problem that I've had to deal with yet.
But I do work with several industrial/pharma chemists that are typically anxious to offer helpful advice to a friend.
I'll definitely read through this thread as time permits. Just thought if everyone was dealing with a known residue I could pose a few questions at work tomorrow and get some helpful suggestions.
Mike
Hi Mike,
For quite a long time we believed that the deposits on the heater coil were largely carbon as that's what it most looks like and the fact that the juice contains mostly organic compounds. But phophoric acid seems to dissolve/react with virtually all the deposit, leaving no visible trace. My undestanding is that carbon would be unaffected by a pH1.6 acid (or any acid?); and my latest thinking is that the deposits are mostly the dry residue of flavorings and (mostly) inorganic minerals from undistilled water. It would be great to get some confirmation or otherwise on that.
For quite a long time we believed that the deposits on the heater coil were largely carbon as that's what it most looks like and the fact that the juice contains mostly organic compounds. But phophoric acid seems to dissolve/react with virtually all the deposit, leaving no visible trace. My undestanding is that carbon would be unaffected by a pH1.6 acid (or any acid?); and my latest thinking is that the deposits are mostly the dry residue of flavorings and (mostly) inorganic minerals from undistilled water. It would be great to get some confirmation or otherwise on that.
That's part of the problem...We're not 100% sure what the residue is. We BELIEVE that it is carbon buildup from the decomposition of PG / VG (moreso from VG) but we're not sure.
It ACTS like carbon and it LOOKS like carbon and it's seen in places and circumstances that would lend to the creation of carbon but we have no incontrovertible proof that it IS carbon. (We're 99% sure it's carbon).
Now we're just playing with ways to remove it that won't also result in removing our lungs.
It ACTS like carbon and it LOOKS like carbon and it's seen in places and circumstances that would lend to the creation of carbon but we have no incontrovertible proof that it IS carbon. (We're 99% sure it's carbon).
Now we're just playing with ways to remove it that won't also result in removing our lungs.
Wait...we're not sure it's carbon anymore?
I missed that part, damnit (I still think it's carbonized organics)
- Status
Similar threads
