The “Cola” Method Taken to Another Level That Works

[kinabaloo]

Terraphon - As far as i know, carbon would be untouched by an acid. So because Sun reports no traces left with the strong acid, seems not carbon after all.

When i used vinegar i could see black bits fall off and floating in the liquid. When I asked Sun he said no trace left, no black bits, with the stronger acid.

 

[Terraphon]

my understanding was the exact opposite...that since it's a nonpolar it would be readily effected.

gonna have to look more in to that.

 

[kinabaloo]

You could look here : WikiAnswers - What does carbon react best with

or here (Yahoo Answers) http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cach...162735AAoChJX+carbon+react&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk



It might be that there was black bits but too small to see. I did suggest putting the solution through a coffee filter paper afterwards; perhaps it is there. Otherwise, if no carbon it's difficult to explain the black color.

Interesting article on carbon: http://www.webelements.com/carbon/chemistry.html

 

[Smo]

Mad props guys, just 2 months ago it was "impossible" to remove the gunk from the atomizer, but now i feel like you are close to the perfect solution. I wish i could give a report as i did with the cola method, thus i will actively search for phosphoric acid, i hope the chemguy who provided me with VG and PG can sell it to me.
Not sure since it's not as safe, and whilst he gave me just a weird look for VG&PG, he will surely ask question for H3PO4. I hope i can talk him through.

/bow (in awe)

 

[exogenesis]

Don't take this the wrong way, but there's some odd 'science' going on in these latter pH discussions.

The pH of the acidic solution, or the degree of acidity, may not be the main reason that
concentrated phos. acid attacks the carbon deposits, although it is probably part of the reason.

Other strong acids e.g. sulphuric acid don't have this dissolving effect on the
truly tough atomizer carbon - I've tried it & I would have thought if anything
would have shifted it conc sulphuric would (e.g tissue paper dropped in sulphuric
instantly dissapears, as does skin).
I think possibly the H2SO4 it just couldn't 'get into' or penetrate the bulk of the deposit.

There's appears to be an affinity of conc. phos. acid for these 'coal' deposits,
it seems not to acting just as an acid.

It might well be a non-polar iteraction, along with the polar acid that makes it effective,
it's probably that the more conc. the phos. acid the better it will work
i.e. 85% phos. acid may work even better than 75%,

I'm getting some & should be able to verify that (or not).
But then it might equally require some further free water to dissociated the acid somewhat more.

 

[kinabaloo]

Exogenesis - yes, might be something in this. However, note that citric acid and acetic acid also have some effect.

My current best guess is still that the deposits are inorganic but there is a trace of amprhous carbon throughout giving the black color.

Edit (add): I think the heat has caused some fusion / hardening - like say how limestone is harder than chalk. I didn't see another possibility for phosphoric acid's abilities here during my research. I still think it works because it's an acid and the deposits are mostly minerals (carbonates etc). Only a trace of amorphous carbon would be required to turn the whole lot black as its color is intense (think soot, charcoal etc).

 

[kinabaloo]

Smo - just say it's to clean a coffee machine or ice making machine. Hope you succeed and we get to hear your report

 

[exogenesis]

Exogenesis - yes, might be something in this. However, note that citric acid and acetic acid also have some effect.

My current best guess is still that the deposits are inorganic but there is a trace of amprhous carbon throughout giving the black color.

Just edited my above post - 85% is the strongest 'solution' not 100%

I should think all the carbon on the atomizer is amorphous, there's no likelyhood of crystaline structure,
but it's probable the stong chemical bonds that are making it so damn tough to shift.

If it's a mixture of minerals & carbon, I'd say that it's mostly carbon with some minerals,
rather than the other way round.

 

[kinabaloo]

E - i always thought the same until Sun's observation that the deposit pretty much all disappears. But i think the carbon must remain. Perhaps Sun simply didn't notice the carbon remaining, or there is a barely reported reaction taking place that I have not heard about.

ps : if you have the phosphoric acid, burn some toast and put the scrapings in, see what happens.

 

[surbitonPete]

I don't know anything about the science......but I have had a little lump of the black stuff soaking in concentrated citric acid for three days now ....and it's still the same size as the day I put it in......lol

 

[kinabaloo]

Pete - have you made a video ?

seriously though, even a negative result is interesting. seems at first simple everyday acids work but over time the stuff gets harder and harder. perhaps we've found a way to make diamonds

was surprised to learn today that lemon juice is a stronger acid than cola or vinegar.

 

[surbitonPete]

Pete - have you made a video ?

seriously though, even a negative result is interesting. seems at first simple everyday acids work but over time the stuff gets harder and harder. perhaps we've found a way to make diamonds

was surprised to learn today that lemon juice is a stronger acid than cola or vinegar.

I have had tiny bits of that black stuff soaking for days on end, in in little plastic containers, in every chemical I can get a hold of and those little bits are still there looking at me every morning when I wake up!.......I can't wait to get some phosphoric acid and see one of those little bits vanish.....lmao.

 

[Jim Davis]

I'm wondering about something like CLR or Lime Away. They use it to clean coffee makers, and tea pots. It has to be rinsed with cold water. I know CLR is sold at Walgreens.

 

[kinabaloo]

Perhaps there is a thin coating of oil that is protecting the deposit, or oil as part of the structure ... Maybe a quick wash in detergent first would be a good idea.

Jim - I think CLR would be too weak.
CLR datasheet here: http://www.hescoinc.com/Msds/comcl4.pdf
Lactic acid <20%

'LimeAway' data sheet: http://custodial.msu.edu/Safety/MSDS_Webs/MSDS Pages/Lime_Away.htm
Phosphoric acid 30%

 

[exogenesis]

I always thought the same until Sun's observation that the deposit pretty much all disappears. But i think the carbon must remain. Perhaps Sun simply didn't notice the carbon remaining, or there is a barely reported reaction taking place that I have not heard about.

...but over time the stuff gets harder and harder. perhaps we've found a way to make diamonds.

If the deposit dissapears, why do you think the carbon remains?.

In the H2O2 cleaning (& EM cleaning) methods the black colour also goes, & only very little solid
white deposit / tarnish remains.

Are you thinking then that the deposit structure is broken up as minerals are dissoloved,
and the bleached carbon material flakes off ?

diamonds - I had the same thought, lol, adds a new dimension to 'bling' e-cigs.

 

[kinabaloo]

E - was just thinking about the white haze left behind, for acids the same. Curious. Diamond dust?

As I said, I think there is little to no carbon in the deposits (strangely enough). Carbon is virtually inert (to acids or H2O2, and pretty much anything else).

 

[kinabaloo]

Interestingly, there is a rare 4th allotrope of carbon called 'White Carbon'.

Hmmmm ...

 

[Nuck]

This has become my favorite thread...science gives me a boner

 

[CandyGirl]

This has become my favorite thread...science gives me a boner

8-o NUCK!!!! 8-o

(maybe you could cover it with your cape?)

 

[jdm-chard]

i bought one of nu-calgon 8oz cleaner at my local store near me this morning and decided to soak my one and only 901 atomizer for 11 hours straight. i didnt dilute it with anything and after running it on the drain for about 5 minutes and blowing out any remaining liquids and dripping 5 drops of juice, theres not much improvement or noticeable difference from before. am i missing something?

sun, did you agitate your atomizer in any way and how much have your wimpy atomizers been used? im currently soaking my dura atomizer from my leftover ice machine cleaner; i hope it doesnt ruin that janty finish. 8-o