The Elephant in the Room

[Lessifer]

I wouldn't mind standards, I just don't trust the FDA, based on their actions so far in regards to e-cigarettes, to set those standards. The FDA tightly controls cigarette production, but they are still filled with chemicals no one should be inhaling, and most people don't know about it. Yes, we know cigarettes are bad, but you have to look into it on your own to actually find out what is in them.

 

[skoony]

I wouldn't mind standards, I just don't trust the FDA, based on their actions so far in regards to e-cigarettes, to set those standards. The FDA tightly controls cigarette production, but they are still filled with chemicals no one should be inhaling, and most people don't know about it. Yes, we know cigarettes are bad, but you have to look into it on your own to actually find out what is in them.

they are filled with chemicals because of how the FDA required them to guarantee the
amount of nicotine in each cigarette and in each puff.

 

[sub4me]

no you can not and you know it.
basically its generally agreed PG,VG.flavors and nicotine,all FDA approved.
adulterating and tampering and or poisoning are against the law.(think exederin)
listing of ingredients is all that is required. we are not bumps on logs.
i for one am not going to cry wolf when all i see is a mole hill.
if you use FDA approved ingredients the quality and safety is
already there. you can't get any safer than that.
what you are suggesting is not happening nor would anyone
be stupid enough to do it.

regards
mike

I don't agree, vg, pg, and nicotine can all be altered, please don't act naïve. Nobody's talking about altering or tampering (that's a total different subject), I've seen many liquids that have no list of ingredients except the nic strength. Just because a seller says the imported liquid they sell has FDA approved ingredients doesn't mean a thing. Do you really think liquid coming out of China is all up to standards of FDA ingredients or USP, please get real. Don't tell me what's happening, perhaps you should address the parents of the teens who where hospitalized after using certain E liquids. But guess what?? You can still buy that bad E liquid.

 

[Lessifer]

they are filled with chemicals because of how the FDA required them to guarantee the
amount of nicotine in each cigarette and in each puff.

Right, which is why I don't want the FDA setting the standards for e-liquid.

 

[Plastic Shaman]

they are filled with chemicals because of how the FDA required them to guarantee the
amount of nicotine in each cigarette and in each puff.

I'm sorry, but one of the criticisms of the statute was it's inability to allow the FDA to regulate actual nicotine levels. There's nothing in the statute that says they can do this. If you can point me in the direction of some instance where the FDA has done this, I'd be more than willing to check it out.

Edit: After doing some research, I believe I was wrong. Whoops. We all make mistakes! I'm still trying to figure out how they do it though.

 

[KenD]

I don't agree, vg, pg, and nicotine can all be altered, please don't act naïve. Nobody's talking about altering or tampering (that's a total different subject), I've seen many liquids that have no list of ingredients except the nic strength. Just because a seller says the imported liquid they sell has FDA approved ingredients doesn't mean a thing. Do you really think liquid coming out of China is all up to standards of FDA ingredients or USP, please get real. Don't tell me what's happening, perhaps you should address the parents of the teens who where hospitalized after using certain E liquids. But guess what?? You can still buy that bad E liquid.

China bashing again. Hangsen probably has the most professional facilities for manufacturing e-liquid, and they certainly use the best ingredients. I doubt many smaller boutique liquid makers in the US can compete with that.

 

[QU1T]

Right, which is why I don't want the FDA setting the standards for e-liquid.

Does another option exist in the US that has already done so on other products?
Just wondering...

 

[PapaSloth]

China bashing again. Hangsen probably has the most professional facilities for manufacturing e-liquid, and they certainly use the best ingredients. I doubt many smaller boutique liquid makers in the US can compete with that.

Also, they're probably one of the few companies outside of BT and BP who could jump through all of the FDA hoops and paperwork that would come with regulation. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the only choices ended up being a couple of the big Chinese producers, BT and BP. Thank goodness I DIY.

 

[Plastic Shaman]

Does another option exist in the US that has already done so on other products?
Just wondering...

The FDA could regulate it under the FDCA if it were marketed as a therapeutic device. As far as I know, this is the only statute that allows for the regulation of tobacco products.

 

[KenD]

Also, they're probably one of the few companies outside of BT and BP who could jump through all of the FDA hoops and paperwork that would come with regulation. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the only choices ended up being a couple of the big Chinese producers, BT and BP. Thank goodness I DIY.

I think you might be right. I happen to be of the opinion that Hangsen liquids are ok, but having options is important (though I diy).

 

[QU1T]

The FDA could regulate it under the FDCA if it were marketed as a therapeutic device. As far as I know, this is the only statute that allows for the regulation of tobacco products.

Thanks for clarifying,
No offence to anyone then, but isn't all this FDA criticism a bit pointless then?
I don't think vapors are a big enough community to bring about a new legal entity, just for Eliquid...?

 

[Plastic Shaman]

Thanks for clarifying,
No offence to anyone then, but isn't all this FDA criticism a bit pointless then?
I don't think vapors are a big enough community to bring about a new legal entity, just for Eliquid...?

A new legal entity? Like a new agency that would control e-liquid? Of course not.

 

[rbrylawski]

no you can not and you know it.
basically its generally agreed PG,VG.flavors and nicotine,all FDA approved.
adulterating and tampering and or poisoning are against the law.(think exederin)
listing of ingredients is all that is required. we are not bumps on logs.
i for one am not going to cry wolf when all i see is a mole hill.
if you use FDA approved ingredients the quality and safety is
already there. you can't get any safer than that.
what you are suggesting is not happening nor would anyone
be stupid enough to do it.

regards
mike

Really?? So you're absolutely convinced you know exactly what's in the juice you purchase? If you answer yes, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

 

[QU1T]

A new legal entity? Like a new agency that would control e-liquid? Of course not.

Agency then it is!

 

[Bored2Tears]

I see this thread has continued, yet unresolved. For me the point of this whole thread is that the vaping community hasn't even settled on whether or not minors should be allowed to purchase nicotine liquids.

Most of my posts have dealt with the fact that the Federal agencies are looking at this industry, and regulations are coming. No point in quibbling about no regulations because there WILL BE regulations. May as well have some discussion / debate over what moderate or reasonable regulations are acceptable.

Or maybe not... but again, I guarantee you that Big Tobacco and BP have no misgivings about whether or not minors will be buying nicotine juice. And I for one am pretty convinced that there will be labeling and / or testing of these liquids.

But yes, this thread is trying to accomplish too broad of topics. Minors can't buy e liquid. My

 

[Lessifer]

Thanks for clarifying,
No offence to anyone then, but isn't all this FDA criticism a bit pointless then?
I don't think vapors are a big enough community to bring about a new legal entity, just for Eliquid...?

They could decide that since e-cigarettes are in fact NOT a tobacco product, they don't have to be regulated under the tobacco control act or FDCA. It doesn't have to be a separate agency, just a separate set of standards.

 

[Plastic Shaman]

I see this thread has continued, yet unresolved. For me the point of this whole thread is that the vaping community hasn't even settled on whether or not minors should be allowed to purchase nicotine liquids.

Most of my posts have dealt with the fact that the Federal agencies are looking at this industry, and regulations are coming. No point in quibbling about no regulations because there WILL BE regulations. May as well have some discussion / debate over what moderate or reasonable regulations are acceptable.

Or maybe not... but again, I guarantee you that Big Tobacco and BP have no misgivings about whether or not minors will be buying nicotine juice. And I for one am pretty convinced that there will be labeling and / or testing of these liquids.

But yes, this thread is trying to accomplish too broad of topics. Minors can't buy e liquid. My

It's funny, when I started this, I wanted to see what people thought about growing amounts of minors using e-cigs because that will affect the decisions the FDA makes. It has been all over the place, but I'm glad I got to see a broad spectrum of opinions and points about the issue overall. I think it's hard to keep a discussion like this in a box when so much interrelated.

 

[QU1T]

I see this thread has continued, yet unresolved. For me the point of this whole thread is that the vaping community hasn't even settled on whether or not minors should be allowed to purchase nicotine liquids.

Most of my posts have dealt with the fact that the Federal agencies are looking at this industry, and regulations are coming. No point in quibbling about no regulations because there WILL BE regulations. May as well have some discussion / debate over what moderate or reasonable regulations are acceptable.

Or maybe not... but again, I guarantee you that Big Tobacco and BP have no misgivings about whether or not minors will be buying nicotine juice. And I for one am pretty convinced that there will be labeling and / or testing of these liquids.

But yes, this thread is trying to accomplish too broad of topics. Minors can't buy e liquid. My

If I am not mistaken, The Netherlands are already on their way, no minors, labels, banning hardware etc.
Just not sure if that entails nic free products and as for hardware, I think that is an impossibility,
As we can always play the word game, same as the "herbal" hardware...

 

[QU1T]

They could decide that since e-cigarettes are in fact NOT a tobacco product, they don't have to be regulated under the tobacco control act or FDCA. It doesn't have to be a separate agency, just a separate set of standards.

What do you guys think?
Personally I think its one of the two, same in EU, not sure about UK though...

 

[Bored2Tears]

I like the topic of the industry doing some self regulation. If the vendors know precisely which flavorings have a propensity for diacetyl and the other harmful chemicals, why not go just a bit out of our way to point them out, and the levels contained therein?

That way, when we sit at the negotiating table with federal agencies, we can say "Look , Big Brother....we already point out the bad stuff and the levels. Now the consumer knows, and is informed?" To me, THAT is self regulation. Not hiding the information, or conveniently avoiding it.

WAY more responsible than what Big Tobacco does with cigarettes. Although, they already have labeling that basically tells you that smoking their product is certain death.