The end of microcoils?

[englishmick]

Aluminum starts to form an oxide layer immediately that it is exposed to oxygen, a passivation layer. This can be enhanced by electrical annealing at temp's far lower than melting point. However, this substantially reduces the rigidity of the wire which is helpful to its retaining its geometry in operation. There needs to be a balance. That can be achieved with strain in winding with limited further pulse annealing so as to promote oxidation and retain fundamentally the wind order.

We don't burn the wire for the reasons cited (melting point). Kanthal is highly heat tolerant. It's a "heating element" wire.

Are you saying that we should perform the pulse heating to form the oxide layer, but not heat the wire with a torch? I always heated the coil up in order to compress it.

Microcoils are the most efficient wire forms that can be created for a vaporizer (in our space limited application). Let's just go ahead and dismiss that math. Millions of would be vapers need us helping them to get asap to a great vape…and getting the reliable truth from us, their fellow vapers.

Good luck all.

Thanks for your input. I feel better now.

 

[SissySpike]

Are you saying that we should perform the pulse heating to form the oxide layer, but not heat the wire with a torch? I always heated the coil up in order to compress it.



Thanks for your input. I feel better now.

You should not torch your Kanthel thats been a no no for quite a while now. I use pretty much 5 and 6 wrap no contact coils they are easy to make easy to space once installed. They heat quickly produce plenty of vapor and flavor IMO

Edit: no coil jig is needed just simply wrap around a scew driver and install and push it around with a screw driver once installed till your happy with the spacing. stroking it with a screw driver will remove the hot legs

 

[yuseffuhler]

Would be nice.

BTW, greetings from a former Yooper. Spent 7 years studying at MTU many years ago.

Thanks! it's a gorgeous place. What did you study at MTU?

 

[Magaro]

Thanks! it's a gorgeous place. What did you study at MTU?

Metallurgical Engineering - that's why this thread sort of sucked me in. That and my love of vaping.

 

[yuseffuhler]

Metallurgical Engineering - that's why this thread sort of sucked me in. That and my love of vaping.

Awesome! You're the kinda people we need. I'm just a guy who hasn't finished his bachelor's yet lol.

 

[Matty316]

I think when he talks about breaking the bonds in the metal when heated to turning red is it effects the delocalization of the electrons in the structure. The electrons start retuning to their parent nucleus and the structure breaks down and this is how the emmision of the metals can happen. If i understood it right.

metallic bonding

 

[Magaro]

You should not torch your Kanthel thats been a no no for quite a while now. I use pretty much 5 and 6 wrap no contact coils they are easy to make easy to space once installed. They heat quickly produce plenty of vapor and flavor IMO

Edit: no coil jig is needed just simply wrap around a scew driver and install and push it around with a screw driver once installed till your happy with the spacing. stroking it with a screw driver will remove the hot legs

Just curious - what is the reason people give for not torching coils? I find it pretty helpful for coiling complex twisted wires. Can't really see the harm if done properly.

 

[Magaro]

Awesome! You're the kinda people we need. I'm just a guy who hasn't finished his bachelor's yet lol.

Hang in there, dude. It's worth it.

 

[yuseffuhler]

Hang in there, dude. It's worth it.

It's been a few years. Active duty Military.... they tell you they'll pay for school, then you don't have time to go to school. I've got three years done anyway, only took me 6 years. 2 years from now I'll have a four year degree Lol.

 

[ScandaLeX]

I tried reading that transcript & suddenly became overwhelmingly depressed.
I enjoy vaping.

I enjoy dry burning my coils, inserting a fresh wick & getting my vape back on.

I'm not going to allow all that to change because if nothing else all I get from that transcript is fear which will turn into a bunch of what ifs!

What if I stop vaping based on this is bad & that is bad..... Well I'd start smoking again!
& THAT would be really bad!

As long as dry burning kanthal is faster than replacing a good coil or pulsing is the only way to eliminate hot legs then I'm good!

 

[Aal_]

Metallurgical Engineering - that's why this thread sort of sucked me in. That and my love of vaping.

Magaro, you should be talking and we should be listening. Come on man. Write us a page of scientific explanations so that we can close this thread!

 

[Rabbit Slayer]

According Farsalinos the most disastrous thing we do in vape is burn the coil to clean it or put together the kantal turns, like when we do it in a microcoil because destroy the molecular estructure and release metals to vape.

You can listen that in this link at 44.34 minutes :



Its a big surprise....

Yeah, ok...Now find five people that don't work for that person that would agree with everything he said in that video, then maybe I'll take to time to continue not watching it

 

[HolmanGT]

I'm not a metallurgist and hold no degrees in any, recognized or otherwise, field of study but it does seem to me that it would take some very significant heat to disturb the crystaline structures or the molecular structure they are composed of to produce a significant, potentially, toxic byproduct.

I do respect Dr. F's work and feel he is pretty much an expert in chemistry, but metallurgy is a whole other thing.

awsum,

I'll go one step further and give my opinion that I too appreciate Dr. F's work. That said he is a Cardiologist that seems to have a lot of free time on his hands. The Cardiologist in the City I live in require appointments months in advance because they are so busy. Why is it that Dr. "F" has so much free time... just food for thought.

Now to get a little ugly he is not a scientist, metallurgist, chemist or anything else but a Cardiologist. So I take most of his medical states pretty much at face value as far as the rest of it well not so much.

The metallurgist's comments on destroying molecular bonds think about it if what you have is a pure metal on the periodic table there is no molecules only atoms of the particular pure element. Now I know your saying that say TI is only 99.7% pure what about the other 0.3%. Well I don't know the answer to that but then I still use Teflon frying pans and plastic bottles with BPA (whatever) in them. But I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

Now to get myself off the hook I will give the Dr. credit for being a pretty intelligent guy with the ability to learn and acquire knowledge on almost any subject he wants to. What I really want to know is where is the chemistry lab full of Mass Spectrometer, Gas Chromatographs, and ISO 1 cleanroom. I won't mention the personnel to staff such a facility. After all he is running a crowd funded tax exempt capital investment organization to fund all his activity and last I heard it was at least in the range of $100,000 USD. That's a lot of rupees in the EU or anywhere for that matter.

Call me skeptical.

Yeah but I read it on the WEB, A Doctor said so, My Priest said so, the New York Times said so and the National Enquirer said so... not necessarily the Gospel IMHO.

 

[Aal_]

I was just going to say that I respect Dr. F. as a cardiologist, as a metallurgist? Nope. Why? Because he is not. Why would I take his word for granted?

 

[zoiDman]

I can understand Dr. F's concerns with Inhaling Fumes coming off a Red Glowing coil. This is Nothing New to anyone who Welds or works around High Temp Metals.

What I question, and would like More Information on, is when he says that the "Structure" of the Metal is Destroyed by doing just One Dry Burn?

I use NiChrome 80. And as Far as I know, I can Heat it up to it's Molten Phase Change Temperature and then cool it back to Room Temperature without any Adverse Effects to its "Structure".

 

[tchavei]

Just curious - what is the reason people give for not torching coils? I find it pretty helpful for coiling complex twisted wires. Can't really see the harm if done properly.

I think torching is more precise than pulsing. The only way I get to form a titanium dioxide layer on my coils are:

A) torch it until the metal becomes bright white (takes a while)

Or

B) dry burn /pulse the coil three or four times

I'll take directional torching any day.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[Magaro]

Magaro, you should be talking and we should be listening. Come on man. Write us a page of scientific explanations so that we can close this thread!

I don't want to see this thread close yet! Discussion is good. It let's people express opinions and experiences and air their concerns. There is a lot that isn't known yet about the safety of vaping. Coils are a part of that - we are using ALL of these alloys in a way they weren't designed for. I'm personally pretty comfortable that they don't present a significant risk. I worry more about cleaning all the foul machining fluids off my new attys than "molecular breakdown" of my coils. But, hey: I may have a PhD but I am NOT a doctor. Everybody has to make their own informed decisions about what they consider to be acceptable vaping risks.

I do intend to study this subject some more in my spare time. I'll be sure to compile and share any relevant scientific info I find.

 

[TheBloke]

I may have a PhD but I am NOT a doctor.

Pretty sure you are.. (I'm kidding, I know what you mean.)

I do intend to study this subject some more in my spare time. I'll be sure to compile and share any relevant scientific info I find.

That would be amazing, thank you!

 

[Aal_]

I don't want to see this thread close yet! Discussion is good. It let's people express opinions and experiences and air their concerns. There is a lot that isn't known yet about the safety of vaping. Coils are a part of that - we are using ALL of these alloys in a way they weren't designed for. I'm personally pretty comfortable that they don't present a significant risk. I worry more about cleaning all the foul machining fluids off my new attys than "molecular breakdown" of my coils. But, hey: I may have a PhD but I am NOT a doctor. Everybody has to make their own informed decisions about what they consider to be acceptable vaping risks.

I do intend to study this subject some more in my spare time. I'll be sure to compile and share any relevant scientific info I find.

The thing is we are not claiming vaping is safe. I think the question here is strictly related to dry burning. Does dry burning release undesired chemical in the vapor? If we divide and conquer we can reach the safest vaping possible.

 

[Alien Traveler]

. Does dry burning release undesired chemical in the vapor?

Yes. Dry burning = cleaning, and purpose of cleaning is to remove undesirable chemichals.
Does vaping on a cleaned by dry burning coil increase amount of undesired chemicals? NO! It makes vapor cleaner.
BUT: It could be quite possible that dry burning of a premaid prewicked with silica coil can increase bad chemicals. Dry burning of silica may partially clean it but may also make other things worse (I am not sure, but I would not recommend doing it).