The FDA and hardware (questions)

[Hans Wermhat]

How are these Faceless people who Whisper in the Shadows?

And what Agenda do they Serve? And Power do they Wield to Achieve their Goals?

BP has been churning out "smoking cessation" products for 20+ years now that were never intended to work. The government has been waging a propaganda "war on smoking" for generations, all the while taking money from those who profit most from it. All this has been in an attempt to placate the sheeple and lull them into believing that the government cares and wants us to quit smoking so we can live longer and be healthier. The sad fact is that it's not true. They don't want folks to quit smoking. Lots of good points here about BT, BP, medical industry, and tax dollars being lost, but that's not the biggest threat from vaping. Not only does smoking generate 100's of BILLIONS of dollars a year in various revenues, but above all else it's population control. Smoking is the single biggest killer in America. If they really cared, they would have banned tobacco itself 50 years ago. Some bean counter somewhere along the way realized that we all pay Social Security and Medicare taxes and that they are one of the single biggest sources of income for the federal government. It's the one part of your income taxes that is completely exempt from refund. The government has been robbing from that well since it was first dug, and they are always looking for new ways to fill their bucket from it. If a person smokes from their teens until it kills them, most will never live long enough to make a dent in the coffers by drawing SSI or Medicare benefits. They take the money from us without our consent and spend it as they please, and if we don't live long enough to collect it, they never have to give it back. And if they can collect billions more each year in taxes from the thing that is killing us off before they have to support us with the money we gave them to do so, so much the better for them. vaping doesn't just threaten the money they make in sales and taxes legally, but it threatens the money they steal behind closed doors as well. It's one of the biggest single threats to the government and I honestly can't believe they have waited 10 years to do anything about it. It should have been obvious to them years ago that their anti-vaping propaganda wasn't working and we are smarter tan they give us credit for. I guess they underestimated it and us and now they are paying catch-up with this blanket legislation that is obviously meant to completely kill vaping outright.

 

[zoiDman]

So BP is behind it all. OK.

But couldn't they make More Money (Today) as being a FDA Approved e-Cigarette Provider vs. hatching there Backroom Plots to Stop e-Cigarettes?

 

[Rossum]

The simple fact is, no politician, in his right mind, will propose 'across the board' tax increases. It's usually political suicide. But faced with budget deficits, whether they be Federal, State, or Local, the next option is 'sin taxes', whether it's alcohol, gambling, smoking, or whatever else is looked upon by political leaders as 'sin'. It's low hanging fruit. Right now, e-cigs are the most obvious. All of the other sins have already fallen under the Sin Tax hammer. If only 18% of the population smokes, 82% of the population doesn't care. If 4% of the population vapes, 96% of the population, smokers and non smokers alike, don't care.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch."

 

[crxess]

Close System Cartridges also fits Nicely into the "Save the Children" thing when it comes to Kids wanting to Vape "Other Stuff" besides Nicotine.

I'm an ex-smoker, my wife is struggling to become an ex-smoker
I have 4 children that ALL picked up the habit. (2) now Vape
I have several GRANDChildren that Smoke.

For the Children DOES NOT WORK!

It is nothing more than a LIE to gather Support for Financial Gain

Sorry, I'm 62 and the Whole FOR the Children thing pizzes me off

 

[zoiDman]

I'm an ex-smoker, my wife is struggling to become an ex-smoker
I have 4 children that ALL picked up the habit. (2) now Vape
I have several GRANDChildren that Smoke.

For the Children DOES NOT WORK!

It is nothing more than a LIE to gather Support for Financial Gain

Sorry, I'm 62 and the Whole FOR the Children thing pizzes me off

For the Children actually works Very Well.

It's just that the Goal Isn't about Saving the Children. The Goal is about getting Voter Support. And as you Mentioned, gathering Large Piles of Money.

 

[skoony]

I Can't Even Imagine someone say'n this with a Straight Face. Let alone Basing Future Trends on it.

What about all the forecasts that predict vaping will overtake smoking? Are they all wrong?
This assumes conditions as they are now.
Regards
mike

 

[haleysdadda]

I'm an ex-smoker, my wife is struggling to become an ex-smoker
I have 4 children that ALL picked up the habit. (2) now Vape
I have several GRANDChildren that Smoke.

For the Children DOES NOT WORK!

It is nothing more than a LIE to gather Support for Financial Gain

Sorry, I'm 62 and the Whole FOR the Children thing pizzes me off

Yes because kids are great at problem solving! Should I remind you of all the creative things that alot of us did to smoke the other stuff! Coke cans, Tin foil, empty toilet paper roll & tin foil..................
Don't apologize for your beliefs! I'm 49 & I think people who push the whole "For the children" thing are pizza chips!

 

[Rossum]

For the Children actually works Very Well.

It's just that the Goal Isn't about Saving the Children. The Goal is about getting Voter Support. And as you Mentioned, gathering Large Piles of Money.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

 

[Hans Wermhat]

So BP is behind it all. OK.

Not just BP. Read the rest of it. I really don't think most of the folks in this conversation understand how much money there is in tobacco. It's literally 100's of billions (with a B) a year. Everyone has their hand in it. BT, BP, Medical industry, government from Uncle Sam's level down to individual cities, rehab centers, ANTZ type organizations, etc, etc, ad infinitum. There are as many people who get a paycheck of some sort from the tobacco industry as there are actual smokers. And don't down play the population control angle. If you don't believe that you have no clue.

 

[Rossum]

What about all the forecasts that predict vaping will overtake smoking? Are they all wrong?
This assumes conditions as they are now.

That sounds like a bad assumption.

 

[crxess]

So BP is behind it all. OK.

But couldn't they make More Money (Today) as being a FDA Approved e-Cigarette Provider vs. hatching there Backroom Plots to Stop e-Cigarettes?

While I don't see BP as any bigger a player than others involved, No to your question.

Support E-cig use(cig-a-likes) by Provision - Well that boat already sailed, however:
If by Miracle of miracles, cig-a-likes were the answer to eliminating Tobacco use, the cig-a-like would become ultimately unnecessary. (NO SALES)
Not even taking into account the Billions of dollars likely lost due to reduction of various Cancer treatments due to healthier people.

Has anyone actually stepped back and looked at the financial burden Vaping can bring upon society?
Just a Few:
Tax Losses (the obvious)
Investment losses (Tobacco industry)
Unemployment (Every paid anti-Tobacco activist), reduced work forces in industry, etc.
Over population - healthier people living longer
Food shortages - due to increased population
Housing shortages - See above

Our little hobby {which I 100% support} could cascade into a cost effect in the hundreds of billions world wide.
A true nightmare for those chosen to lead us who have never previously seen such a financial challenge.

We scare the Bageebas out of them.

 

[HotRodCarts]

Yea, @zioDman, you might find that absurd, but so is the idea of controlling vaping since it only requires a little hardware and something as ubiquitous as vegetable oil. So you have to reorient yourself into the mode of: OK, how are they going to accomplish this absurdity?

(hint: intended use doctrine...)

Vaping vegetable oil? yummy

 

[zoiDman]

What about all the forecasts that predict vaping will overtake smoking? Are they all wrong?
This assumes conditions as they are now.
Regards
mike

What Forecasts? Making Predictions based on how the Market works Today is Great. But is that the way the Market is going to Operate in the Next 2 Years?

Mike, the Changes we are going to see are going to so Monumental, I Don't think Most Vaper's can even Fathom them.

 

[crxess]

Vaping vegetable oil? yummy

Okay, please stop with the Vegetable Oil Jokes. Sure as shxx some fool will give it a try and we don't need that.

 

[zoiDman]

While I don't see BP as any bigger a player than others involved, No to your question.

Support E-cig use(cig-a-likes) by Provision - Well that boat already sailed, however:
If by Miracle of miracles, cig-a-likes were the answer to eliminating Tobacco use, the cig-a-like would become ultimately unnecessary. (NO SALES)
Not even taking into account the Billions of dollars likely lost due to reduction of various Cancer treatments due to healthier people.

Has anyone actually stepped back and looked at the financial burden Vaping can bring upon society?
Just a Few:
Tax Losses (the obvious)
Investment losses (Tobacco industry)
Unemployment (Every paid anti-Tobacco activist), reduced work forces in industry, etc.
Over population - healthier people living longer
Food shortages - due to increased population
Housing shortages - See above

Our little hobby {which I 100% support} could cascade into a cost effect in the hundreds of billions world wide.
A true nightmare for those chosen to lead us who have never previously seen such a financial challenge.

We scare the Bageebas out of them.

I dunno?

Seems like there is a Lot of Money Laying on the Floor just waiting to be Picked Up. And the Only Ones who would be able to Pay for what we think Approval will cost is going to be Big Business.

Not sure why BP wouldn't want to be Part of the coming Money Grab?

 

[haleysdadda]

Ya know I'd be all for new maybe even higher taxes If they were for helping people and that money (at least 75%) actually went were it was supposed to go! Where does all the money from cig taxes go? Research? I think not! Where does all the money from the Ca. lotto go? To the schools it was supposed to? Not a flippen chance! Seems like we're back where we were in the beginning! Taxation without representation! Gosh I'm really disappointed in the country we have become!

 

[zoiDman]

Not just BP. Read the rest of it. I really don't think most of the folks in this conversation understand how much money there is in tobacco. It's literally 100's of billions (with a B) a year. Everyone has their hand in it. BT, BP, Medical industry, government from Uncle Sam's level down to individual cities, rehab centers, ANTZ type organizations, etc, etc, ad infinitum. There are as many people who get a paycheck of some sort from the tobacco industry as there are actual smokers. And don't down play the population control angle. If you don't believe that you have no clue.

I just think this type of Reasoning worked better in 2009 or in 2010.

But Today, it is going to be Very Difficult to get the e-Cigarette Genie back into the Bottle. And the Old Say'n seems more viable.

"If you Can't Beat them, then Join Them."

 

[AndriaD]

I just think this type of Reasoning worked better in 2009 or in 2010.

But Today, it is going to be Very Difficult to get the e-Cigarette Genie back into the Bottle. And the Old Say'n seems more viable.

"If you Can't Beat them, then Join Them."

Yep. As much all ALL of them want vaping to go away... it's not going to. The Pope wanted the printing press to go away. It wouldn't -- what is known, cannot be UNknown; what is discovered, cannot be UNdiscovered; what has been invented, cannot be UNinvented. A few years ago there a lot of uproar about the internet; the gov't was going to regulate it, if it couldn't make it go away. Then they apparently discovered that the US doesn't OWN the internet! And now that we all have it... it's not going anywhere, short of a worldwide EMP. Heck, they haven't yet even figured out how to apply sales tax to purchases made outside your own state... and they're gonna regulate something world-wide and history-making and game-changing like e-cigs? Uh huh. Sure they are, this same gov't who's pursued a "war on drugs" for how many years now? With how much success???? I'll be here with my 10 yrs' (and growing) worth of nicotine and rebuildables, vaping to my heart's content, as will a lot of you -- yeah, some current smokers may have a harder time getting onto the vape train, but a lot of them probably have friends with nic stashes and lots of stashed hardware, too. They might make it difficult for us for a little while... but make vaping vanish? Not on your life.

Andria

 

[roxynoodle]

Taxation of vape products won't necessarily protect the interests of BT and BP.

 

[skoony]

That sounds like a bad assumption.

In the post deeming world of course.

What Forecasts? Making Predictions based on how the Market works Today is Great. But is that the way the Market is going to Operate in the Next 2 Years?

Mike, the Changes we are going to see are going to so Monumental, I Don't think Most Vaper's can even Fathom them.

I can´t fathom making predictions on unknowns. It's a given post deeming will
be a completely different landscape.
Regards
Mike