The FDA and hardware (questions)

[Hans Wermhat]

I dunno?

Seems like there is a Lot of Money Laying on the Floor just waiting to be Picked Up. And the Only Ones who would be able to Pay for what we think Approval will cost is going to be Big Business.

Not sure why BP wouldn't want to be Part of the coming Money Grab?

There isn't any money left on that particular floor. And BP is taking more of it now than they could by selling vape gear. Most folks spend less than $1000/yr on vaping. A single round of chemo for lung cancer costs much more than that.

and they're gonna regulate something world-wide and history-making and game-changing like e-cigs? Uh huh. Sure they are

That's why they are trying to kill it rather than regulate it sensibly.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I can´t fathom making predictions on unknowns. It's a given post deeming will
be a completely different landscape.
Regards
Mike

That's what a "Prediction" is Mike. If there are No Unknowns, there is Nothing to Predict.

 

[Rossum]

I'll be here with my 10 yrs' (and growing) worth of nicotine and rebuildables, vaping to my heart's content, as will a lot of you -- yeah, some current smokers may have a harder time getting onto the vape train, but a lot of them probably have friends with nic stashes and lots of stashed hardware, too. They might make it difficult for us for a little while... but make vaping vanish? Not on your life.

This. I now have what I believe to be a lifetime supply of nic for myself, but I'm gonna keep buying more on a regular basis for as long as the price remains attractive and quality & availability remain good. Why? So I can help a smoker or two at some point in the future. But I will NOT share with anyone who's already a vaper, who claims they didn't see this coming, or didn't bother to take appropriate steps to insulate themselves.

 

[zoiDman]

There isn't any money left on that particular floor. And BP is taking more of it now than they could by selling vape gear. Most folks spend less than $1000/yr on vaping. A single round of chemo for lung cancer costs much more than that.

...

Who is going to sell all the e-liquids in a Regulated US Market so vaper's can Shell Out 3 or 4 Billion Dollars per year?

 

[AndriaD]

There isn't any money left on that particular floor. And BP is taking more of it now than they could by selling vape gear. Most folks spend less than $1000/yr on vaping. A single round of chemo for lung cancer costs much more than that.


That's why they are trying to kill it rather than regulate it sensibly.

And as i said already, they will be even less successful at killing it, than in trying to regulate it. The cat is out of the bag, and ON the ship that has already sailed!

Andria

 

[skoony]

That's what a "Prediction" is Mike. If there are No Unknowns, there is Nothing to Predict.

Maybe on the Psychic Network.
Regards
Mike

 

[Topwater Elvis]

I guess I shouldn't be, but, it shocks me to see the amount of folks discussing / arguing the proposed regulations that obviously haven't read them... or possibly have but don't understand them.

Their intent is clearly spelled out, I think some folks that have read it just can't believe what they're reading.
It is that ridiculous, it is that detailed & overreaching, it will be that devastating to vaping if passed as it stands & enforced, even if halfheartedly enforced.

It is also shocking to see the narrow mindedness, only how it may affect an individual, black market, DIY, wire&cotton, rba/rta/rda, stockpile nic, blah,blah,blah.
What about the thousands of smokers that will never have the choices we do & have had if they want to try to quit by vaping, what about the folks that for any reason can't or don't want to DIY or use RBA's.

Want to know what it's going to be like?, go buy & vape a vuse or a blu.

Some of you may not be aware, not that long ago during their first try at stamping out vaping, US customs confiscated large shipments of imported vape related products, these dealers/vendors were just out the money & product.

A friend of mine that lives in Ar had his $160 worth of mail order juice confiscated at the PO last week, even in the rush & bulk of Christmas mail... in an unmarked / no vape shop reference or labeling on the box anywhere.
With a note saying your package was confiscated due to violation of SB 978.

 

[zoiDman]

Maybe on the Psychic Network.
Regards
Mike

Here is some Good Reading for you.

Prediction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hans Wermhat]

Who is going to sell all the e-liquids in a Regulated US Market so vaper's can Shell Out 3 or 4 Billion Dollars per year?

And as i said already, they will be even less successful at killing it, than in trying to regulate it.

If the deeming passes as currently written, there won't be a market to regulate. There will be no juice sales because there will be no refillabe gear available. At least not legally. And selling bottles of juice will be illegal on day one after the regs go into effect. This

Predicate Product Exists: Altria In Negotiations To Acquire

is the only known usable piece of vaping gear that will qualify as existing before the grandfather date, and a tobacco company is trying to buy the rights to it now. (Isn't it funny they picked such an arbitrary grandfather date? Isn't it coincidental that there is only one known patent that existed before that date? No back room deals there, I'm sure. ) How many vapers do you know that would be satisfied with that thing? If it was the only thing available, how many would you buy before you gave up? How long will Altria manufacture theses things before they decide to quit losing money on them? No one, not even BT or BP will shell out the money to get through the application process for new gear knowing they will end up losing billions in the long term. And no one will buy a cheesy sealed system cig-a-like when they cost $50 each and only last 3 or 4 hours.

We all have our gear that we can use for now, but what happens when it breaks? Will you take a chance on ordering contraband from another country and having it shipped to your home? How many of us are going to have the ability to fabricate new gear ourselves? One in ten? One in a thousand? And of those, how many are going to be willing to take a chance on selling unapproved gear on the black market? When there is no more functional gear, there is no more vaping. Those of us that are smart have a stash of DIY materials and extra gear, but when your last piece of gear wears out 5 or 10 years from now, what will you do? I'm handy enough to build my own mod, but no way in hell I'd take a chance on going to prison for selling them in quantity.

And what happens in a couple of years when they figure out folks are still finding ways to vape and push to make possession of gear illegal?

The regulations aren't going to kill vaping immediately after they pass. We will be able to carry on, huddled in our basements, looking over our shoulders till our supplies run out. It's more like putting someone in an airtight room and waiting till the oxygen runs out.

 

[Rossum]

It is also shocking to see the narrow mindedness, only how it may affect an individual, black market, DIY, wire&cotton, rba/rta/rda, stockpile nic, blah,blah,blah.

It's not narrow minded to try to save yourself and those closest to you when it becomes apparent you can't save everyone. It's also not narrow-minded to tell the ruling cabal openly, "No, I will not comply!"

Or are you suggesting that all of us should subject ourselves to the FDAs whims by using only the products that your rulers have decided are "approved" (if any)?

What about the thousands of smokers that will never have the choices we do & have had, what about the folks that for any reason can't or don't want to DIY or use RBA's.

Oh, it's gonna suck for them, but this is not our doing, nor do I see how it would help them at all for us to comply.

A friend of mine that lives in Ar had his $160 worth of mail order juice confiscated at the PO last week, even in the rush & bulk of Christmas mail... in an unmarked / no vape shop reference or labeling on the box anywhere.
With a note saying your package was confiscated due to violation of SB 978.

Please find out how it was shipped. I'm betting it wasn't "First Class" because First Class is protected and cannot be opened without a search warrant. See question 4. on this page.

 

[haleysdadda]

I guess I shouldn't be, but, it shocks me to see the amount of folks discussing / arguing the proposed regulations that obviously haven't read them... or possibly have but don't understand them.

Their intent is clearly spelled out, I think some folks that have read it just can't believe what they're reading.
It is that ridiculous, it is that detailed & overreaching, it will be that devastating to vaping if passed as it stands & enforced, even if halfheartedly enforced.

It is also shocking to see the narrow mindedness, only how it may affect an individual, black market, DIY, wire&cotton, rba/rta/rda, stockpile nic, blah,blah,blah.
What about the thousands of smokers that will never have the choices we do & have had if they want to try to quit by vaping, what about the folks that for any reason can't or don't want to DIY or use RBA's.

Want to know what it's going to be like?, go buy & vape a vuse or a blu.

Some of you may not be aware, not that long ago during their first try at stamping out vaping, US customs confiscated large shipments of imported vape related products, these dealers/vendors were just out the money & product.

A friend of mine that lives in Ar had his $160 worth of mail order juice confiscated at the PO last week, even in the rush & bulk of Christmas mail... in an unmarked / no vape shop reference or labeling on the box anywhere.
With a note saying your package was confiscated due to violation of SB 978.

Not to say that you're lying or anything because I don't know you or your friend! Why are we not hearing about this stuff from the actual people! I know if it were me this happened to I would have gone to each & every thread in this & every forum out there! Why aren't we hearing from them? I have followed & still follow alot of these types of threads & I can't remember anything like this happening to someone here! PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG! IF SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAS ACTUALLY TO YOU PLEASE SPEAK UP! All this 2nd & 3rd person schnizzle is really getting on my nerves!
If you have actually had something like this happen to you my sincerest apologies & sympathy are with you! Please share your actual stories with us.

 

[AndriaD]

It's not narrow minded to try to save yourself and those closest to you when it becomes apparent you can't save everyone. It's also not narrow-minded to tell the ruling cabal openly, "No, I will not comply!"

Or are you suggesting that all of us should subject ourselves to the FDAs whims by using only the products that your rulers have decided are "approved" (if any)?


Oh, it's gonna suck for them, but this is not our doing, nor do I see how it would help them at all for us to comply.

Totally agree. I WILL NOT comply with this idiocy! Sure, it'll be bad for those who still smoke, and I'm sorry as hell about it, but I'm doing all I can to fight it -- if it happens anyway, I'll keep fighting, AND I'll keep vaping, because I *have* made provisions to do so. Others, as I said, I'm really sorry, but I can't save the world, only myself -- I refuse to sacrifice myself just because some smokers can't vape in a successful manner. I will be one who helps to keep vaping alive, simply because I keep vaping, in the manner that *I* choose! I didn't cause this idiocy, I'm doing all I can to fight it, but if it happens anyway... I WILL NOT COMPLY, PERIOD!

Andria

 

[curiousJan]

Not to say that you're lying or anything because I don't know you or your friend! Why are we not hearing about this stuff from the actual people! I know if it were me this happened to I would have gone to each & every thread in this & every forum out there! Why aren't we hearing from them? I have followed & still follow alot of these types of threads & I can't remember anything like this happening to someone here! PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG! IF SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAS ACTUALLY TO YOU PLEASE SPEAK UP! All this 2nd & 3rd person schnizzle is really getting on my nerves!
If you have actually had something like this happen to you my sincerest apologies & sympathy are with you! Please share your actual stories with us.

I went and looked up SB978 ... it imposes all the licensing and taxation associated with cigarettes onto all vape gear and niquids (even 0 nic) for sales and purchases within AR.

I believe it.

 

[curiousJan]

Oh, and for the love of pete, people, STOP calling it juice!!

 

[haleysdadda]

I went and looked up SB978 ... it imposes all the licensing and taxation associated with cigarettes onto all vape gear and niquids (even 0 nic) for sales and purchases within AR.

I believe it.

Jan I also believe that such taxation legislation exists! But how did they know what was in the box? Nicotene sniffing dogs (probably exist)? Who paid for them? Did they open the box & if so what was they're probable cause? Did they open any more packages randomly? There are some serious privacy issues here! I am certain there are more questionable legal things going on here but I'm no lawyer!

 

[curiousJan]

X-ray would likely show bottle outlines, followed by a sniff test for confirmation? I dunno. I don't like it either, but the post office inspecting packages is not unheard of, is it? Especially immediately following the implementation of a new law like the one in question.

 

[ReigntheGamer]

Oh, and for the love of pete, people, STOP calling it juice!!

But I won't to get to ask strangers,"Wanna try my juice?".

 

[Rossum]

We all have our gear that we can use for now, but what happens when it breaks?

I believe if you choose your gear wisely, it will last a lifetime with only minor, easy repairs. I expect to have to replace some o-rings in my atties, and perhaps some small moving parts in my mods, but those would be straightforward enough to fabricate from scratch if I didn't have spares.

And what happens in a couple of years when they figure out folks are still finding ways to vape and push to make possession of gear illegal?

In other circles there's an expression: "Molon Labe!"

The regulations aren't going to kill vaping immediately after they pass. We will be able to carry on, huddled in our basements, looking over our shoulders till our supplies run out.

I don't have a basement, and my supplies aren't going to run out.

 

[skoony]

Here is some Good Reading for you.

Prediction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Excellent article how one uses knowledge to make predictions not,
just take shots in the dark.
Regards
Mike

 

[Yiana]

It's hard to find a basement in the south