The FDA and hardware (questions)
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Yea, @zioDman, you might find that absurd, but so is the idea of controlling vaping since it only requires a little hardware and something as ubiquitous as vegetable oil. So you have to reorient yourself into the mode of: OK, how are they going to accomplish this absurdity?
(hint: intended use doctrine...)
There is a valid reason that we don't allow drug talk. Please read this link: Why we don't allow drug talk
It will become clear to you.
Thanks!!
A few example cases of penalizing vendors will bring the vaping industry and innovation to a grinding halt. Investors in the industry in the States will not want to assume that risk.
I'm expecting growing taxes at the local and state level, and a window of virtual prohibition when the FDA rolls out hardware restrictions. That window may last for some time, possibly years, while lawsuits are dragged through the courts. It will harm the vaping industry and slow adoption of vaping. I am stocked up for that window.
I think you Answered your Own Question when you Posted this...
If it is All about the Money, which Many including myself believe, then once e-Liquids are at a Tax Rate that equates a PAD Smoker then why would there be Any Need to Demonize e-Cigarettes?
I mean, if you get the Same Amount of Federal Reserve Notes either way, what is that Difference what a person puts in their Lungs?
The CASAA response to the deeming regs spells out many concise arguments why the FDA is pushing us off the cliff without a parachute.. It's a lengthy but worthwhile read and has a thread dedicated to it here.
eLiquid and nic base will be the main target ... want tokillTax vaping?
Taxcut offthe head
I fixed that for you.
BTW - Why would anyone want to Kill e-Cigarettes?
You Can't Tax Something that Isn't being Sold Legally.
Um .......... you do know you can make your own bath products and
sell pg/vg from DIY stores and vg is used for skin care and FDA approved right ?
I fixed that for you.
BTW - Why would anyone want to Kill e-Cigarettes?
You Can't Tax Something that Isn't being Sold Legally.
vaping will not be totally killed off ... open tank systems will die off when nicotine base becomes unavailable.
closed down cigalikes will be the only vape to survive ... those locked down cigalikes are what they will tax.
The last 5 years of vaping innovation will soon come to a halt ... cigalike innovation is about to start.
I guess this isn't exactly on topic but, I'm visiting with family for Christmas, a chance to check in on a brother who I started vaping last Christmas day. He still vapes on the original setup I got him, iStick 20 at 6 watts, an N mini, that gets a new coil head once a month, and 2 ml daily of 12mg nic in one flavor of eliquid bought online in 120ml bottles, $20 each. He was a PAD smoker so the 24 mg of nic he's vaping is the same as he was getting from cigarettes. I can't interest him in changing anything but did persuade him to get a backup mod (iStick 40w TC). I gave him a spare N mini since I only do rda's. I'd call him a vaper archetype. My point is vaping is costing him well under $200 a year and he's not rebuildig or mixing. A 1 liter bottle of nic would last him 11 years. 1000 ml X 100 mg = 100,000 mg / 25 mg = 4,000 days / 365 days = 11 years. Evenually most smokers are going to understand these numbers. I think that will sharpen the political debate more than the health issues. Who wants to go back to paying the cost of cigarettes?
Good luck banning hardware.
I can (and have) made a mod from a Hammond box and commonly available parts - wire, sled, mosfet, resistor, and switch. The only thing left is a 510 connector - which I understand was originally used somewhere else. Regardless, I could hard-wire and atty directly to a box if necessary.
And I am sure there are entrepreneurs waiting to provide such a service.
All of which leads me to believe the tax hammer will fall hard on nicotine and and liquids. It would be impossible for anyone to stop me from vaping using a complete and total ban on hardware - short of making possession punishable by huge fines or jail time...and that won't happen.
I can (and have) made a mod from a Hammond box and commonly available parts - wire, sled, mosfet, resistor, and switch. The only thing left is a 510 connector - which I understand was originally used somewhere else. Regardless, I could hard-wire and atty directly to a box if necessary.
And I am sure there are entrepreneurs waiting to provide such a service.
All of which leads me to believe the tax hammer will fall hard on nicotine and and liquids. It would be impossible for anyone to stop me from vaping using a complete and total ban on hardware - short of making possession punishable by huge fines or jail time...and that won't happen.
I think the taxation of the liquid will make most smokers justify not moving to vaping as it costs the same or more.
At that seems like what would be at the Forefront of this Fight.
Along with the hardware and juice. Everything is on the list.eLiquid and nic base will be the main target ... want to kill vaping?
cut off the head
I believe they have got to get people back to smoking with a known 30% dependency rate. This makes
it easier to calculate long term revenue. I use about 45 ml every four weeks at about $20.00 sourced
locally. Having been a two pack a day smoker that would be compared to $420.00 for smokes.
For a lot of people in that situation it's easy to see many going right back to smoking. Most would
not put up with the extra hassle when a box of red and a bic would do. Remember the majority
of vapers (80% or likely higher) are not forum rats like us.
Regards
Mike
Some have Argued with Policy Makers that if I take a Smoker and I hold in One Hand a pack of Cigarettes and in the Other an e-Cigarette and then tell them. "It is going to cost you the Exact Same. But the e-Cigarette is Clearly Safer.", that smokers will move towards e-Cigarettes. State and the Fed will get their Tax Monies. And Public Health will have been Improved.
But by Imposing Excessive Taxes and or Unreasonable Restrictions, there will be Less Public Health Improvement.
if everyone thinks vape shops started popping up everywhere overnight ... they are going to close down even faster
The point being missed here is that they would need something to tax. The deeming regs would effectively remove all vaping options other than what was available before the effective deeming date, and that includes the cigalikes like Vuse and Blu that hit the market since 2007. The taxation issue is secondary and not under the FDA purview for deeming. Any taxes on vaping products are being proposed/implemented because of the perceived equivalence to smoking tobacco.
The FDA has to do their job of deeming ecigs a tobacco product. Once they have done that, that is when they can be taxed at the equivalent of current tobacco products i.e. Cigarettes etc...
First step is the deeming....
Then the 'sin' taxes....
First step is the deeming....
Then the 'sin' taxes....
Search the CASAA report for the word "oligarchy" and the context it appears in. You'll see the drift they're spinning, and it is utterly conceivable.
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