Never underestimate the cooking and baking skills of a soccer mom under attack by onerous taxes. DIY is no more complex or dangerous than cooking. Just give them a reason to do it
The FDA and hardware (questions)
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For a state with such a huge tobacco industry, that doesn't really surprise me -- they've also imposed draconian taxes on nicotine.
It just makes me glad I live in a state without a vast tobacco cash crop, and with sane lawmakers.
Andria
Easily fixed with a dollar/ml federal tax. How long before that? You are overlooking the larger point that they are essentially taxing a household product at $1000/liter. And I have seen no zero nic exceptions to any proposed taxes or controls
@AndriaD , I didn't mention that we would get arrested for just having Tobacco-related "paraphernalia", although some places may go that way. But what i was thinking is exactly what I said as I see it in communities that I have experienced. An ordinance passed deeming no use of a vaping-related system in public and a cop sees you taking a draw, cites you and the judge upholds the law. Fine incurred and it goes into you file. All of this can occur as communities council's and legislatures establish what ordinances.
15-20 years ago, I read a story about Carmel California. Sleepy/touristy town on the Cali. coast. But the tourists, after buying ice cream cones were letting the ice cream fall to the ground. The town place an ordinance against letting that happen. I am not sure how it all turned out though.
Yes, things may go to the Supreme Court in 8 years, but the ordinances/laws will stay pending additional testing only by the FDA and its approved laboratories.
Just a crock for us little peeps.
15-20 years ago, I read a story about Carmel California. Sleepy/touristy town on the Cali. coast. But the tourists, after buying ice cream cones were letting the ice cream fall to the ground. The town place an ordinance against letting that happen. I am not sure how it all turned out though.
Yes, things may go to the Supreme Court in 8 years, but the ordinances/laws will stay pending additional testing only by the FDA and its approved laboratories.
Just a crock for us little peeps.
What is even funnier ...is you can smoke a real cigarette on a public sidewalk there but not a ecig...go figure that one out.
If e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids had their Own, Separate, Classification for Regulation/Taxes, so much of what Fills this Forum would not be Happening.
But Unfortunately, that Isn't happening. And if there were Only Two Choices, Drug vs Recreational Nicotine Use, we went down the ONLY Viable path.
Deeming will be Completed on 2016. And I would be Very Surprised if Nicotine in e-Liquid form was Not Taxed on the Federal Level in the same Calendar Year.
But I don't see any Taxes on Pure VG. Or Pure PG. Or Pure Flavorings/Sweeteners on the Federal Level.
States can Attempt to do what State Residents allow them to Do. But that doesn't mean that a Tax on Pure VG would not be Strongly Opposed by the Chemical Manufactures Trade Groups/OEM's. And wouldn't be Challenged via the Courts.
But there is no golden egg for the goose to lay. Vaping as a stable long term tax revenue stream Is
not viable.Once everyone vapes that means no pool of smokers to switch to vaping which means no
guaranteed 30% dependency rate. It would simply die out due to to high a cost to benefit ratio. The same
would apply in a dual market of lower cost vaping and smoking. Eventually vaping would overtake smoking
having more lifetime non-tobacco users starting to vape than ex-smokers. Again with the same result.
Life time non-tobacco users would by and by simply stop using for various reasons as there is no dependency hook.
This would repeat itself until both become obscure niche markets.
If its a cash stream they want it means more cigarette users,way less e-cig users.
Regards
Mike
That's exactly my take -- I really think the main reason the FDA is dragging their feet so slowly is PRECISELY to make vapers sweat bullets... then, when the "deeming" regs seem to be not so awful, but taxes are ungodly, most vapers will breathe a sigh of relief: "at least they didn't ban it," instead of rising up to raze DC to the ground.
They want money, period. They don't give a ratsazz where it comes from, or who dies or gets sick, even though that is their ostensible raison d'etre -- it's all the same to them as long as they can continue extorting SOMEBODY for ungodly amounts of money.
Andria
I guess you're right; it's just hard for me to imagine living in a place run by such lunatics. I guarantee you, that won't happen in GA.
Andria
My God. What could be More Viable?
Less Harm to the User. Little Desire to stop Using e-Cigarettes. Easily Controlled on the State/Federal Level.
What more does a Tax Collector Want?
There was pressure from multiple places that had the FDA pull the e-cig market into the deeming regs because of its perceived relation to tobacco use. Vis a vis, nicotine consumption.
Lunacy and stupidity in government knows no bounds. Georgia is not immune. Your time will come. Trust me. It will.
Once the regs go through ... I think a lot of parents are going to be surprised, Little Billy does not just vape zero nic.
When eLiquid with nicotine becomes hard to find or triple the price .... there's going to be a lot of young cloud chasing vapers climbing the walls ... Walmart VG is not gonna cut it.
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When eLiquid with nicotine becomes hard to find or triple the price .... there's going to be a lot of young cloud chasing vapers climbing the walls ... Walmart VG is not gonna cut it.
Sent via iPhone
The FDA had/has to Deem e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids as a "Tobacco Product" so they could have the Legal Authority to Regulate it.
They tried the Nicotine as a Drug thing but that Didn't Work.
Never say Never.
Because if you Do, and it Doesn't Turn out the way You think it will, it will Shatter your perception of where you Live.
Do you really think of it as a window rather than a termination? I really hope that's how it turns out. I've heard other people express similar thoughts. I always figured they would go for a complete ban because if they even left a smidgeon of wriggle room vaping would start to pick away around the edges of the laws and grow back.
Probably true. The argument for inclusion is a homogenized blend of associations of e-cigs/vaping to tobacco consumption.
There is just a Ton of Dynamics that go into All of this.
Taxes
Profits
Control
Heath
Science
Information/Mis-Information
Under Aged Use
Political Grandstanding
But at the very, Very Bottom of it, None of these things Really Matter if the FDA does not have the Legal Authority to Regulate this Market.
GA already has language on the books that vaping is not the same as smoking. And other than our misbegotten Board of Regents (education), no blanket bans of vaping anywhere; it's left up to proprietors. My letter to my Congressman, Rob Woodall, received a very courteous reply that was very clearly not a form letter, in which he stated that he is very firmly against allowing the Feds to overtake any more of our lives than they already have; he believes that *if* any regulations are needed as to e-cigs and vaping, they should only be at state and local levels. GA is also still fighting Obamacare, and have not increased Medicaid to meet Obamacare demands. I don't think
GA will be joining the anti-vape lunacy -- we have one of the lowest cigarette tax rates in the entire country, so there's not a lot of financial incentive, and given that so many people here still smoke, GA is desperate for a way to stop all the willy-nilly death and disease incurred by smokers -- vaping is the answer to GA's prayers.
Andria
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