The FDA has 'won'

[Minimike]

It is a done deal, for the moment at least.

Writing to the FDA, Health Canada, the Governor of Oregon, etc will do as much actual good as writing to Santa Claus. Whatever the motives, good or bad, behind all these pronouncements - the path is mapped out.

The only way to combat this steamroller is a two lane road :

1. Get Dekang, JC, ECOPure, etc. to produce lab reports on the liquids.

2. Get the "public" to understand all of this.


For #1 to work, perhaps we need to let the manufacturers know we will accept a small surcharge/ml on our supplies to fund the testing. Maybe a nickel or dime per ml?

For #2, we need to get the national media to ask questions about the FDA's report (as we have in here) and then actually report on it as much as they did the FDA's press release. Ideally, the national media would also delve into the real reason behind this witch hunt.


Getting up in arms in here and gloating over our 'discovered' information in this forum is just a letter to Santa.


ECA? this is your livelihood involved. The bread will be pulled off your tables soon if this isn't turned around.

 

[UptownRiot]

And what prompts you to say this?

 

[Minimike]

We continue to preach to the choir in here. A satisfying activity, to be certain - but not effective in changing the course of events.

As an individual, I can "write to Santa" all day. The result of this communication are the same. The ECA and Chinese manufacturers are the ones that need to act wisely. They are the only ones with the muscle and contacts to help.

This is a power struggle. A struggle between those in power and those without power. It is being fought in the realm of politics and that realm only allows us individuals one vote.

 

[Drunkwaco]

The FDA will never win. Cause we will still all vape. All they can do is slow down the growth of our community till it explodes in there face. Once that happens they will be forced to accept it just like they are forced to accept cigg's. What we need is to speed up the community growth. We need flyers to be posted in every Post Office, College, building of any sort that has smokers and inform them of the lies and smear tactics of that FDA and or big pharm, Big tabacco, and sentors. We need hard proof easilly to understand by the moronic masses that will then start to ask stuff. If we can just get people to ask we can answer. I've begin looking for stuff for flyers i suggest anyone that cares to do that same. a million man march will never happen in our life time for e-cigg's and our goverment doesn't care about this subject so there going to leave there hands off it so they don't get voted off by anti-smokers or pro-smokers. It's up to us to do what little we can and make people start asking why shouldn't we encourage our loved one to kill them selfs less.

 

[UptownRiot]

Right but your statement "The FDA has Won" is exaggerated, misleading, and part of the ridiculous hysteria that circulates around here. Speak plainly, speak in facts, generate rational idea's towards the good.

Don't rattle the cages of your peers just because it's fun.

 

[Janetda]

Jeeze, THANK YOU! I may not be a fan of the FDA's but the manufacturers here have got to step up to the plate. Why aren't we .....ing about them too? Just because we like what they sell, doesn't mean they have no responsibility in this. The general public or the media isn't going to take the e-cig seriously until the the manufacturers start taking it seriously too. This is no longer a novalty item, it's a product that we are inhaling into our bodies and frankly, I want to see some published tests and on-going quality control that my supplier can show me. I honestly believe pvs are better for me than analogs, that's why I vape, but come on people let's start to at least give the pretense of trying playing by the rules.

 

[Minimike]

"The FDA has won" is an assessment/opinion of my own. As to the accuracy of it, time will tell.

I make this assessment based on years of observation of political happenings in this country. The FDA press release was not just a statement - it is a pronouncement of intent and a veritable broadside. If it is countered in the way it is being countered currently, it will sink us.

The counterfire needs to be done now, not in three months. In a very short time, the results of the FDA's condemnation will be permanent. It has brought the attention of 'the public' to the subject and , at the same time, framed the discourse. 'The public' now has the idea that our hobby is dangerous to them. Without countering this press release, to the public, quickly - the FDA's statement (correct or not) will be so imbeded in the minds of the public that it will be irreversible.

 

[Thulium]

Why are we allowing the FDA to declare that e-cigarettes are a "drug/delivery system"? They simply are not. Vaporizers are a safe and legal consumer product--just because some people make them in a cigarette shape doesn't change that. As for the drug? Vaporizing/ingesting is an established and healthy alternative to noxious processes like burning or chewing, so the only question that should be left is in regard to the drugs. It seems that ingesting vaporized nicotine or other drugs is one of the safest (or the best) delivery methods, so the only question remaining is what other ingredients can or should be approved by the FDA in products intended for vaporization and ingestion.

I'm actually completely in favor of the FDA banning imports of dangerous drugs in liquid form unless and until the ingredients and their potential side effects are known. The FDA should be monitoring the content of tobacco products. But e-cigarettes aren't tobacco products, they are electronic devices that are sometimes (but not always) shaped like cigarettes (hence the name). SOME (not all) are packaged along with a tobacco product, and I would agree that any time a tobacco or nicotine product is sold, it should be under the direction of the Food and Drug Administration.

As to whether or not they are marketed as effective smoking cessation or replacements? Marketing is marketing. The truth is, ANYTHING can and should be marketed as an alternative to smoking, and any alternative to smoking can be used as part of a smoking cessation plan. President Reagan quit smoking with the help of Jelly Beans, President Obama uses gum (with nicotine polacrilex)... Thanks to e-cigarettes, some people may not have any intention to cut down their nicotine intake, and some people will continue to smoke and merely use vaporized nicotine to curb the craving when they can't smoke analogs. I don't see anything wrong with that whatsoever as long as noone is claiming they are an approved Nicotine Replacement Therapy before the FDA gives the approval.

When did it become illegal to sell fog machines as a safer alternative to pyrotechnics?

 

[Mac]

actually writing to santa is far more efective as at very least it makes you feel good.

 

[TropicalBob]

Why are we allowing the FDA to declare that e-cigarettes are a "drug/delivery system"?

Because we are powerless to stop them from declaring it a drug-delivery system. Utterly, completely powerless! That's the simple answer and I just can't face writing the detailed explanation you need to understand all that is going down now. Maybe others have more patience, but your argument is moot.

 

[HighTech]

@JANETDA:
How do you know that some of the manufacturer's aren't stepping up? This is not going to happen overnight. It will take a year or two for the proper tests and studies to be done.

Despite how some of us feel about the FDA, it does care about public health, to a point. The bottom line is if the FDA deems this is a drug and drug delivery device, then it will simply have to go through a New Drug Application process. No way around it.

On the other hand, there are ways around everything

 

[UptownRiot]

Because we are powerless to stop them from declaring it a drug-delivery system. Utterly, completely powerless! That's the simple answer and I just can't face writing the detailed explanation you need to understand all that is going down now. Maybe others have more patience, but your argument is moot.

I feel exactly the same.

 

[jeffakamax]

 

[.308]

I'd pay an extra dollar per 10 ml. Bring it on.

 

[BigJimW]

HAHA jeffakamax, good one.

 

[ProtoType]

Very impressive jeffakamax. Do you mind if I save that and circulate it in e-mail to co-workers and others?

 

[jeffakamax]

Use it as you see fit. I consider myself an open-source smart-....

 

[RandallFlagg]

I've said it before. And again and again.
We need to increase our number!
Print the cards. Get more people into vaping.
Be friendly and helpful to the curious.
Be polite and respectful to the phobics.

Pass out the cards with a smile.
We can win this.

 

[Sharon13]

This is an idea for anyone fighting the FDA. If liquid nicotine is declared a dangerous item - without concrete proof - how about countering with the demand that another dangerous item be banned first: alcohol. There's no arguing how dangerous the intake of alcohol is, and they - the alcohol lobbies - have the resources to fight the decision. Let's put the big guy in front of us to do the fighting, and then we may not have to do any fighting ourselves at all.

 

[titanflyer]

I know this is probably not the most popular opinion, and I understand its something of a personal freedom issue, but does anyone really trust the Chinese with having your safety in mind over profit? I am not sure I want to lose my choice of saying what I put in my body, but I would at least like to know what it is that i am putting in my body.