The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[suspectK]

Throwing down some nice stuff...I mix like Bill said he does, just look/smell/think about past experiences with certain flavors, and just mixing...

I am loving everything I got, except I'm still having issues with plum.. The description says it tastes like dr. pepper.. well, no, no it doesn't..I've almost gotten it figured out, but ran out of black cherry for this last one. I'm going to get some extract, and try last night's mix with cherry..think it might be the one..

It seems like I stay around 20% with all flavors...heavier cream flavors can fluctuate, but are typically around 15% for me...

I mix 100% VG or 1/3 PG (minus nicotine base~4mg *pg* and flavors).

Haven't had any issues with vanilla gelato..but the most I've used was about 0.3mL in a 15mL mix..

 

[AndriaD]

Also note that TFA's Vanilla Swirl is identical to their Vanilla Custard, but without the offending chemicals. I do doubt you can find a respectable custard without the AP and whatever else.

Which reminds me that I need to make up a big batch of my strawberry juice and try 100 drops replacing Vanilla Custard with Vanilla Swirl, to see just how delicious the alphabet soup is...

So I don't actually *need* 'vanilla custard', as one of my "stock" flavors? I asked here yesterday if anyone has tried the FW Vanilla Custard, or Capella's v2 of that flavor, since they don't have the bad chemicals, but no one ever replied.

As I said, I do think a lot of the yammering going on about that stuff is largely hysterical... but with my asthma, I can't afford to take chances with anything that has a risk of damaging my lungs; I already have days where it's hard to breathe, and I know how awful it is, and how much I DON'T want more of it.

Andria

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

In light of this heavy perfume-y thing going on, do you guys think that there may be a better flavor manufacterer out there that I would have better luck with?

Only a few TFA flavorings have the chemical/floral notes at normal percentages. The few that do are easily mitigated by supporting flavors. Maybe we can help? Can you answer these questions please?

1. What are you trying to make?
2. What do you NOT like using in your mixes?
3. What are you using now, and at what percentage that is giving you the floral Note?

Mixing juice is something that we learn how to do. It is not intuitive (initially), and flavorings have to be mixed in recipes to get favorable final flavorings. If you just quit TFA and try another brand, that, in and of itself, will not solve your mixing issues, because the problem is not the mixes, it's the mixer. By that, I mean that you have to learn how to make good juices, how to mitigate flavor issues, how to use supporting flavorings, etc. If you could please answer the questions above, we may be able to help you in your VapeQuest. We are all here to help. Give us a chance. Best!

 

[suspectK]

Vanilla swirl is awesome...it kinda has the same taste as the custard aspect of collusus by Cyclops.. I was very surprised to find it be a full flavor, not some flat-sugar flavor..
Edit-it's actually the flavor that is rounding out plum more to make a dr. pepper flavor... of course, I run out of cherry.. might just add dragon fruit.. if I haven't already..notes at home.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

So I don't actually *need* 'vanilla custard', as one of my "stock" flavors? I asked here yesterday if anyone has tried the FW Vanilla Custard, or Capella's v2 of that flavor, since they don't have the bad chemicals, but no one ever replied.

As I said, I do think a lot of the yammering going on about that stuff is largely hysterical... but with my asthma, I can't afford to take chances with anything that has a risk of damaging my lungs; I already have days where it's hard to breathe, and I know how awful it is, and how much I DON'T want more of it.

Andria

Perhaps, like me, they don't know the answer to your question, since this is a TFA thread? If I were you, I would probably not use TFA flavorings that contain AP and other custard notes that can combine at nearly immeasurable level to form diacetyl. Since Diacetyl exposure at a chemical level, when inhaled, causes asthma and lung disease, it should be avoided. Ingestion of diacetyl is not known by medicine to cause disease whatsoever, and is a natural byproduct of fermentation. That being said, the health foods community has long known about diacetyl as being, what is scientifically known as a No-No. I wouldn't use any flavoring that contained diacetyl myself. However, I am not against the use of custard notes in my vape juice. That's just one opinion though. Good luck!

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

You can make vanilla custard without using custard notes, using TFA flavorings only, I believe. I have the recipe somewhere in my notes, and I know it was posted on this thread sometime during the last two months or so. Maybe someone can find it?

 

[AndriaD]

deleted

10 chars

 

[baseballmom]

Hi all! Missing everyone [emoji22]

I had to make a quick comment before I go pack some more..

LOOK! SOMETHING THAT USES RIPE STRAWBERRY! WOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


Ok, back to the quiet corner of trip-land!

Ah, but strawberry ripe/ripe strawberry is SO GOOD!!!! Lol, I do LOVE it!!!

Anytime I use strawberry, I always ALWAYS use a bit of strawberry ripe in a lower percentage than the about of regular strawberry.To me, anything else tastes artificial.I realize it's all artificial but it still tastes much more realistic to me...

Yep, I do that with cap sweet strawberry too-yummy!!!! I use higher % SR though, then again, I love SR

In light of this heavy perfume-y thing going on, do you guys think that there may be a better flavor manufacterer out there that I would have better luck with?

What %'s are you mixing which flavors at?

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Ok, thanks. I'm thinking I might try Capella's, since they cared enough about the problem to actually reformulate their vanilla custard flavor -- to me that shows a very high level of ethics and awareness, and willingness to please their customers.

I have Capella's Cake Batter flavor on the way, and at bullcity, where the bad ones have that "caution" background, the cake batter flavor is not showing that, and the description says just artificial flavoring and PG, no mention of any of the problem ingredients, so that one should be safe enough.

Thx!
Andria

TFA has reformulated their flavors, and removed all diacetyl from their flavorings.....just like the other flavor makers. I know for a fact that Linda at TFA cares about the problem and has addressed it better than most other companies. Your post insinuates that TFA does not care about the problem, that they don't have ethics, and are unaware of the problem. This is both unfair and inaccurate. Linda has bent over backwards to make her flavorings safe and has informed us in detail of the issues,.

However, from the sounds of it, you may be happier with Capella's flavorings. I've tried a few, including their Vanilla custard, and I personally don't like them, but I know there are many fans and several Capella's threads here on ECF. I'm sure you can find some common ground. Capella's....land of the long steep time. Good luck!

 

[baseballmom]

Is butyric acid used in cap vC2? I honestly don't know, but that could be irritant too for some? Vanilla swirl is listed on site as vc with custard notes removed...no mention of ace/ap/ba....and it tastes nice too

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Is butyric acid used in cap vC2? I honestly don't know, but that could be irritant too for some? Vanilla swirl is listed on site as vc with custard notes removed...no mention of ace/ap/ba....and it tastes nice too

I don't know what's in it, I just checked my bottle. Probably have to go to the website. I've heard the same thing about butyric acid. Of course and irritant is not a lung disease. The fact is that we don't know long term the affects of vaping food flavorings.

I'm TFA all the way, though. Not worried. No problem ingredients to me!

 

[baseballmom]

Sooooo....any developments in milkshakes lately? I plan on trying my vbg/vs/Koolada mix tomorrow...I was REALLY happy with initial mix, little nervous about koolada addition, but will report....still playing around with BlackBerry/raspberry mixes...not bad, but not where I am wanting yet.

 

[readeuler]

I don't know what's in it, I just checked my bottle. Probably have to go to the website. I've heard the same thing about butyric acid. Of course and irritant is not a lung disease. The fact is that we don't know long term the affects of vaping food flavorings.

I'm TFA all the way, though. Not worried. No problem ingredients to me!

I checked their website out of curiosity, and only saw a list of what it didn't contain, not what it did contain. Maybe it's hiding in some cranny somewhere, but I didn't find it. (Although I did learn that they're branded as "flavor drops", weird! I'll take some tobacco water, please )

 

[baseballmom]

I don't know what's in it, I just checked my bottle. Probably have to go to the website. I've heard the same thing about butyric acid. Of course and irritant is not a lung disease. The fact is that we don't know long term the affects of vaping food flavorings.

I'm TFA all the way, though. Not worried. No problem ingredients to me!

That is true....just thinking if an irritant would bother her asthma, it will be andria' s choice/decision of course.

 

[AndriaD]

TFA has reformulated their flavors, and removed all diacetyl from their flavorings.....just like the other flavor makers. I know for a fact that Linda at TFA cares about the problem and has addressed it better than most other companies. Your post insinuates that TFA does not care about the problem, that they don't have ethics, and are unaware of the problem. This is both unfair and inaccurate. Linda has bent over backwards to make her flavorings safe and has informed us in detail of the issues,.

However, from the sounds of it, you may be happier with Capella's flavorings. I've tried a few, including their Vanilla custard, and I personally don't like them, but I know there are many fans and several Capella's threads here on ECF. I'm sure you can find some common ground. Capella's....land of the long steep time. Good luck!

No, I'm not insinuating anything. I know there is no diacetyl in the TFA flavors, but some of them do still have a bit of acetoin and that other one, propionyl. If I had normal lungs, I probably wouldn't even worry about the small amount of those, but after doing some reading last night about those particular chemicals and their potential effects on the lungs, I realized that I can't afford to dismiss all the concerns about those ingredients as pure hysteria -- they *might* be pure hysteria, but to someone with already-problematic lungs, I can't take the risk.

Why is everyone so quick to take offense about everything around here? Good grief.

Andria

 

[redddog]

Only a few TFA flavorings have the chemical/floral notes at normal percentages. The few that do are easily mitigated by supporting flavors. Maybe we can help? Can you answer these questions please?

1. What are you trying to make?
2. What do you NOT like using in your mixes?
3. What are you using now, and at what percentage that is giving you the floral Note?

Mixing juice is something that we learn how to do. It is not intuitive (initially), and flavorings have to be mixed in recipes to get favorable final flavorings. If you just quit TFA and try another brand, that, in and of itself, will not solve your mixing issues, because the problem is not the mixes, it's the mixer. By that, I mean that you have to learn how to make good juices, how to mitigate flavor issues, how to use supporting flavorings, etc. If you could please answer the questions above, we may be able to help you in your VapeQuest. We are all here to help. Give us a chance. Best!

Thanks for the help, man.

1.So I'm really only trying to do some candy or sweet fruits. I ordered Grape candy, Apple candy, Raspberry candy, Black raspberry, regular apple and cherry. Just looking for those flavors. Of those, Rasp., B rasp, grape all taste like a flower.

2. I'm not a Vanilla, custard, bakery fan

3. Up til now, I've been adding 10% flavoring and 90% 50/50 6% premixed base.

So I read that Marshmellow adds body and I thought maybe adding some sweetener may get me at least closer. I'm not suggesting that TPA is bad, I just wondered if there might be a different brand that was understood to do what I was looking for a little better.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Felipe Ascencio]

You can make vanilla custard without using custard notes, using TFA flavorings only, I believe. I have the recipe somewhere in my notes, and I know it was posted on this thread sometime during the last two months or so. Maybe someone can find it?

I think is this one Bill the safer one i save it in my notebook

'Safe' (DA and AP Free) Vanilla Custard
6% TPA Your Favorite Fruit.
5% TPA Vanilla Bean Gelato
5% TPA French Vanilla Creme (both new flavors)
2% TPA Brown Sugar Extra
3% TPA Cotton Candy

 

[Porksmuggler]

I think is this one Bill the safer one i save it in my notebook

'Safe' (DA and AP Free) Vanilla Custard
6% TPA Your Favorite Fruit.
5% TPA Vanilla Bean Gelato
5% TPA French Vanilla Creme (both new flavors)
2% TPA Brown Sugar Extra
3% TPA Cotton Candy

Should be, the Vanilla Bean Gelato and French Vanilla Creme don't have component lists on their site yet, but I'm assuming they're reformulations without the Acetylpropionyl or Acetoin. Linky links

I've been running around 10 different test mixes a week for the last couple years, so if there's a concern, the damage is likely already done, but I've cut out most of the TPA flavors with the above, save for Graham Cracker Clear and Bavarian Cream, which I don't want to live without.

Bill, since you've been posting so many recipes for newer DIY'ers, I collected almost all of them, since you've posted frequent repeats, but I figured I'd ask before spamming them again in the thread...

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Thanks for the help, man.

1.So I'm really only trying to do some candy or sweet fruits. I ordered Grape candy, Apple candy, Raspberry candy, Black raspberry, regular apple and cherry. Just looking for those flavors. Of those, Rasp., B rasp, grape all taste like a flower.

2. I'm not a Vanilla, custard, bakery fan

3. Up til now, I've been adding 10% flavoring and 90% 50/50 6% premixed base.

So I read that Marshmellow adds body and I thought maybe adding some sweetener may get me at least closer. I'm not suggesting that TPA is bad, I just wondered if there might be a different brand that was understood to do what I was looking for a little better.

Thanks again for all your help.

Believe it or not, you will have to add vanillas and creams to get you where you want to go. However, if you keep your mixes of creams and vanillas below about 6%, you will just your fruits to pop and will not really taste the vanillas and creams. Did you know that chocolate has vanilla in it? Yes, but you don't taste vanilla. Same idea. Here's an example of my dragonfruit recipe that tastes like a fruit:

Dragon's Blood

Dragon Fruit - 10%
Cotton Candy - 5%
Strawberry - 5%
Bavarian Cream - 4%
Vanilla Cupcake - 2.5%
Sweet Cream - 2%
Vanilla Swirl - 1.5%

Look at this recipe carefully. There's a reason for everything here. I want a rich, fruity, thick juice vape. This delivers. But how? What about all the other stuff?

The two creams are at 6%. That's your ceiling. The two vanillas are at 4%. Your sweetener (CC) is at 5%. All at or under 6%. You won't taste pastry or bakery, or at least I don't. If you do, just lower each type by a percent, or two, one at a time, until they disappear. This is the secret you have been looking for my friend! Trust me!

The strawberry tones down the chemical/floral on the dragon fruit. Raspberry works as well (2%), and they don't take over. You have to try this to believe it. Without these supporting flavorings, you won't be able to get that rich, thick, fruity flavor you want. It is counter intuitive. I discovered it by accident, then researched, and found what and why it worked. I guarantee you won't have chemical floral any more.

If you want a pure candy, you still have to do the same thing. Look at this pink starburst recipe. It's a dead ringer:

Pink Stardust (Pink Starburst)

Strawberry - 8%
Sweet Cream - 4%
Vanilla Swirl - 4%
Cotton Candy - 2%
Sweet and Tart - 2%

Folks go nuts for this one, and you can see how similar it is to the Strawberries and Cream. Instead of hazelnut, substitute TFA Sweet and Tart, and you really do get a Pink Starburst (Pink Stardust on the Strip). If you substitute Bubblegum for the Sweet and Tart, you get a delicious strawberry bubblegum (bazooka) flavor. Change Strawberry to grape, and get a delicious grape bubble gum (bazooka). Or, keep sweet and tart AND bubble gum and make one called grape bubbleburst. All are very good.

Your juice is about to "Take Off."

What makes this pop, rich and full, sweet and candy is the vanillas and creams and the sweet and tart.

I do like my bakery goods, but I make all kinds of juices. You still need vanillas and creams to get to vaping Nirvana. Give it a try. Blow your mind.

Marshmallow is great for custard and meringue and smores and peanut butter cup, etc. The creams and vanillas are better here.

If you just add fruit, you're as a single flavoring, you're not going to get there. When using a candy flavoring, try using both apple candy and apple, as an example. Here's an example of that using two (or three candies):

Candy Apple

Apple - 4%
Apple Candy - 4%
Gummy Candy - 6%
Cotton Candy - 4%
Sweetener - 2%

This could be even richer and thicker with vanillas and creams, but I was trying for a clean light candy apple here.

Anyway, I hope some of this makes sense. Check out my blogs for additional information. They may be helpful, and they will save reading time. If you get a chance, read through this thread over the last two or three months. Some very talented juice makers have bared their souls and given the very best DIY information on ECF here. It's worth the effort! Good luck!

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Should be, the Vanilla Bean Gelato and French Vanilla Creme don't have component lists on their site yet, but I'm assuming they're reformulations without the Acetylpropionyl or Acetoin. Linky links

I've been running around 10 different test mixes a week for the last couple years, so if there's a concern, the damage is likely already done, but I've cut out most of the TPA flavors with the above, save for Graham Cracker Clear and Bavarian Cream, which I don't want to live without.

Bill, since you've been posting so many recipes for newer DIY'ers, I collected almost all of them, since you've posted frequent repeats, but I figured I'd ask before spamming them again in the thread...

Post away. The many new DIY'ers that come here often don't read the past threads, so I have to keep posting the same things over and over. I added blogs to reduce some of this, but I really don't like to point them out....seems tacky. But, I get tired of doing it over and over and over. So, please post away!