The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[Kaezziel]

Okay, got another recipe to share with y'all. I adjusted the Peaches & Cream (added 2% French Vanilla Deluxe). But that seems to have overridden the peach flavor a bit too much... I just wanted to add a bit more of a vanilla undertone to the peach, but apparently that was a bit too much. Is the regular French Vanilla a little more subdued? Or should I just cut it down to 1%? Maybe 0.5%? I dunno....

Anyway, I also, made a small test batch of Chai Spiced Cream that I came up with based loosely on Bill's Cream Fantastico

Chia Spiced Cream
Sweet Cream - 8%
Chai Tea - 7%
Vanilla Bean Gelato - 5%
Bavarian Cream - 4%
Cotton Candy - 4%
Sweetener - 2%

It's good, but needs a little twerking errr... tweaking... maybe up the chai spice a tad. I'm thinking move the chai up to about 9% and drop the sweet cream to 6%. It already has a really great flavor... creamy and sweet with just a bit of the spice coming through. I think I'd like it better with a little more spice though... but of course, taste is subjective and some of you may like it just fine the way it is!

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Okay, I guess it is finally time for my "Introduction to this thread" post. I've been lurking and sneaking around stealing ideas from you guys and gals for a little while now. I've been vaping for around 5 years, did a bit of DIY back in the day with flavor concentrates and nicotine from Totally Wicked... got tired of crappy juices and started buying off the shelf. Well, now I mostly vape with drippers on mechanical mods with sub-ohm coils and go through quite a bit of juice, and price is becoming an issue. So, I finally took the leap and ordered a whole bunch of stuff from Wizard Labs last week, and everything came in this past Saturday... so, of course, I immediately had to mix somethin' up!

First attempt was a complete disaster, and I'm going to have to re-evaluate my thought processes on my Pun'kin Pie recipe... long story short, too much spice and it all went downhill from there. Dumped it in frustration (only 10ml, so no big loss).

Second attempt blew my mind. It was on par with, or better than, pretty much any juice I've ever purchased! Fairly simple recipe, which I will share below:

Peaches & Cream
Juicy Peach - 10%
Sweet Cream - 8%
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream - 5%
Sweetener - 3%
Cotton Candy - 2%

I think I may still do some tweaking to it, but it was very good straight shake-n-vape... even better after steeping overnight (no temp, just left the lid off and stuck it in a drawer overnight).
If any of you who have a much better idea about this stuff than I do have suggestions, I will definitely listen to any advice that you sage mix-masters care to impart!

Sorry for the long post, but thank y'all SOoooooo much for this awesome thread! It gave me the encouragement and guidance to try this again. I was dreading getting back into mixing because of my previous experiences and was never happy with the resultant juices... now, with this first success, I am extremely hopeful and can actually believe that I can do this........ with your help, of course!

The cream flavors tend to improve over time, and you may find that having the creamy base deep steeped helps the flavor really take a step beyond what you ever expected.

My suggestion, make up a bottle and mark it (do not vape till Spring), if you like it now a couple months will make you wonder why you didn't make more.

Maurice

 

[Kaezziel]

Good suggestion, Maurice... I may give that a shot. I don't see myself steeping that long on a consistent basis, but who knows... Maybe I'll set this bottle of chai aside for a while and see how it tastes in a couple of months..

 

[baseballmom]

Just a heads up for those who order direct from tpa, noticed when prepping next order, the warehouse will be closed for the holidays from 12/20-1/4, notice is on home page in yellow

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Yeah I've had packages show as delivered, and got the next day....seems usps is a little chaotic during the holidays...happened recently with my key lime and coconut....said delivered to my front porch the day before and was in my mailbox the next day too. Hope you get yours soon.

So I mixed my white chocolate trial blends this am, just kept it simple for now with 10% white chocolate and 5% supporting flavor to see what I get initially, and I have a 15% trial of ry 4 double to try soon, mixed when I was sick and loopy so will have to see if went too high with % or not, didn't use supporting flavors either, so....???? Not sure what to expect.

Also thinking of trying the rice krispies flavor with marshmallow and a little butter, might do that before the waffles/fruits.

My mom is thinking of tobacco vapes to kick that am cigarette she's finding hard to let go, all I have is the ry 4....sometimes it's hard to mix for someone with a different flavor profile...gotta sort of figure what type of tobacco taste she is wanting, I had bought her some from mbv and Johnson creek, but they were sort of yucky. This might be challenging, not impossible just challenging. It would be easy if we had similar tastes, but they are quite differing....have to narrow some variables down, get her to a sampling bar to get ideas what she wants and likes.


Edited to add...omg! The white chocolate/candy cane smells so good, I think I'll try it next tank

Love to find a good rice crispies vape! Loved that as a kid. Keep us informed.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

The cream flavors tend to improve over time, and you may find that having the creamy base deep steeped helps the flavor really take a step beyond what you ever expected.

My suggestion, make up a bottle and mark it (do not vape till Spring), if you like it now a couple months will make you wonder why you didn't make more.

Maurice

I'm not a big stone/base guy, but the only one that I do use is the Cream Fantastico. I use it as it's own flavoring, and it does improve over time, and I haven't found anything yet that I don't like it with. Take any single flavoring, add CF, find the sweet spot (%), so far, vapeable juice, often amazing, particularly with strong flavorings. Example, add a fireball flavoring, or similar to CF, wonderful. Know a girl who vends juice who uses as her ADV. Add to Red Licorice....amazing. If you don't want to make a lot of recipes, or have 150 flavors, make the CF and play with it. It'll also show you a lot about working with the different flavorings too. Food for thought. It's the journey for me, not always the end result, and we all have different taste preferences, so we literally have to play with our flavorings to get it right FOR US. There simply is no one right way to make juice. Good luck all!

 

[ItTechy]

Shoot....My order from MFS ordered yesterday, shipped today at 1:48 PM HA!

BTW: This was about 8:30 AM CST!...

Now that's efficiency!

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Just got a PM. Who makes Cream Fantastico?

You do!

Cream Fantastico

Blueberry Extra - 8%
Strawberries & Cream - 7%
Vanilla Swirl - 5%
Bavarian Cream - 4%
Cotton Candy - 4%
Sweetener - 2%

Good luck!



P.S. Or make your own Cream Fantastico. So far, this has been a hit, but it would be easy to adjust it to anything you might like. The uniqueness of this recipe is just the right mix of fruits to add flavoring, while maintaining a strong cream flavor and consistency. I use this as its own flavoring and often mix in equal parts with another single mix juice at the appropriate percentages for each flavoring. So, make a 15% single flavor mix, as an example (will vary by flavoring - see recommended amounts post: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...entice-flavoring-thread-137.html#post10979607), and add to CF for a complete juice. It's just a quick way to mix, and is great on drippers. Add flavor, add CF, to the dripper and vape. Quite nice I'm told. Good luck!

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Good suggestion, Maurice... I may give that a shot. I don't see myself steeping that long on a consistent basis, but who knows... Maybe I'll set this bottle of chai aside for a while and see how it tastes in a couple of months..

I never really expected I would be able to steep stuff that long either.

However when I found a few recipes I really liked I made them in larger volumes, say 120ml or larger for example.

When you have a shelf loaded with several months worth of e-liquids you can't help but let them steep.

For what it's worth, longer steep times can allow you to use less flavoring in the first place, which in turn helps reduce the cost of the liquids you create.

Besides, if you make your juice a month or two ahead of time, or a day ahead, it really all works out the same; you just have better tasting (typically more full bodied and smooth) e-liquids, and a lot more on hand.

The big realization comes when you dig through the "that was crap box" and try a few; at some point you find a wonderful juice and wonder why it ended up in the "that was crap" box. So you dig into your notes and mix up a fresh batch, and yep, it tastes like crap!!! Steeping made the difference.

I didn't really buy into steeping till I found a spectacular vape in the junk box a couple of months after it was mixed.

Maurice

 

[Kaezziel]

I never really expected I would be able to steep stuff that long either.

However when I found a few recipes I really liked I made them in larger volumes, say 120ml or larger for example.

When you have a shelf loaded with several months worth of e-liquids you can't help but let them steep.

For what it's worth, longer steep times can allow you to use less flavoring in the first place, which in turn helps reduce the cost of the liquids you create.

Besides, if you make your juice a month or two ahead of time, or a day ahead, it really all works out the same; you just have better tasting (typically more full bodied and smooth) e-liquids, and a lot more on hand.

The big realization comes when you dig through the "that was crap box" and try a few; at some point you find a wonderful juice and wonder why it ended up in the "that was crap" box. So you dig into your notes and mix up a fresh batch, and yep, it tastes like crap!!! Steeping made the difference.

I didn't really buy into steeping till I found a spectacular vape in the junk box a couple of months after it was mixed.

Maurice

Seems like a valid point. Right now I'm still mixing pretty small batches trying to find a couple of recipes that I like. Once I get a few that I like, I'll probably mix larger batches, and will then have a bunch of juice just sitting and waiting to be vaped.

But maybe I won't be so quick to dump a batch from now on... just throw it in a "that was crap" box and try it again in a few months... never really thought of that, I figured that if I didn't like it when I mixed it, that I'd never like it... LoL

 

[readeuler]

Just a heads up for those who order direct from tpa, noticed when prepping next order, the warehouse will be closed for the holidays from 12/20-1/4, notice is on home page in yellow

Wow, thanks for the heads up! I've been putting off making a moderate order (increasing some 8ml Wizard Lab samples to true 4oz bottles), and had planned on getting to it sometime soon. Turns out, I'd better do it really soon, or keep putting it off for a few weeks! I wonder if they can get it shipped out in the next few days? Probably, they seem like an efficient and hard-working small group of folks.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Seems like a valid point. Right now I'm still mixing pretty small batches trying to find a couple of recipes that I like. Once I get a few that I like, I'll probably mix larger batches, and will then have a bunch of juice just sitting and waiting to be vaped.

But maybe I won't be so quick to dump a batch from now on... just throw it in a "that was crap" box and try it again in a few months... never really thought of that, I figured that if I didn't like it when I mixed it, that I'd never like it... LoL

The problem with long steep times is that it takes forever to make a decent juice and we can often become discouraged in our DIY. Higher flavored mixes at 20% - 30% flavoring allow us to test at the time of mix to find and make great juice. Following the long steep time nonsense, cost me a good six months in my mixing. The reason I say nonsense is not that juice can improve over a long steep time, it's just that it not only usually does NOT improve, it can make good juice less flavorful as well. Most of the time, bad juice that becomes good at the time of mix is due to an offending flavoring losing its strength over time, which means it didn't belong there in the first place. So, very rarely, bad juice becomes good, rarely great, and good juice can become bad.

For this reason, I always recommend to new DIY'ers to make juice that tastes good ATM (at the time of mix) and it will likely improve, initially over the first two hours and flavor bonds fully form, and peaking generally 24 - 48 hours later. If a juice takes months to become good, it was not a good juice to begin with, and because it accidentally becomes good two months later doesn't mean that is the best way to make juice, because it is not, imho.

Good juice can become great, but bad juice almost never does, so why play the long steep game? Mix with full flavoring to taste ATM, watch the improvement over a short time, and that's how you learn to make great juice. Taking a month to make a juice only to find out that it needs adjustment, then another month to test can take months to make a single juice. I tried this method, and wasted 6 months. Sure keep the bad juice and see if it's good, but don't plan a mixing program around this method, as you'll never learn to make great juice in an efficient way. That my two cents.

 

[Kaezziel]

The problem with long steep times is that it takes forever to make a decent juice and we can often become discouraged in our DIY. Higher flavored mixes at 20% - 30% flavoring allow us to test at the time of mix to find and make great juice. Following the long steep time nonsense, cost me a good six months in my mixing. The reason I say nonsense is not that juice can improve over a long steep time, it's just that it not only usually does NOT improve, it can make good juice less flavorful as well. Most of the time, bad juice that becomes good at the time of mix is due to an offending flavoring losing its strength over time, which means it didn't belong there in the first place. So, very rarely, bad juice becomes good, rarely great, and good juice can become bad.

For this reason, I always recommend to new DIY'ers to make juice that tastes good ATM (at the time of mix) and it will likely improve, initially over the first two hours and flavor bonds fully form, and peaking generally 24 - 48 hours later. If a juice takes months to become good, it was not a good juice to begin with, and because it accidentally becomes good two months later doesn't mean that is the best way to make juice, because it is not, imho.

Good juice can become great, but bad juice almost never does, so why play the long steep game? Mix with full flavoring to taste ATM, watch the improvement over a short time, and that's how you learn to make great juice. Taking a month to make a juice only to find out that it needs adjustment, then another month to test can take months to make a single juice. I tried this method, and wasted 6 months. Sure keep the bad juice and see if it's good, but don't plan a mixing program around this method, as you'll never learn to make great juice in an efficient way. That my two cents.

That is pretty much the thought process that I've started with this time around in the DIY game. I may hang on to some not-so-great juices for a while and see if they change, but I'm not intending to plan my mixing around long steep times. I agree with the logic that if it's not good to start with, it'll never be great. I figure the best one can hope for is that it'll become vapeable over time...

I did notice a bit of difference in my first batch of Peaches & Cream that it was a little better the second day... well, maybe not better, but certainly different. Day One it was quite peachy. On Day Two, it became a little more creamy. So the 24-48 hours seems like a solid window to gauge by... if it's still crap after 2 days, then it definitely needs some adjustments.

Thanks for your input, Bill... your two cents are as good as my dollar any day.

 

[Xybein]

About a week ago I got 5 TFA flavor extracts to try them out for the first time. I'm pretty happy with the quality honestly. I got pomegranate deluxe, sweet & tart, berry crunch, blueberry extra, watermelon. These are the percents i'm using for just single flavors. If it matters for anything my blends are always 50/50 6mg nic.

Pomegranate deluxe: 6-10%
Sweet & tart(more like smarties): 6-8%
Berry crunch(more of the crunch than the berry taste): 6-8%
Blueberry extra: 8-12%
Watermelon(very similar taste to hubba bubba watermelon gum): 7-8%

With these percents the flavor is perfect for my taste.
One thing I noticed was if I put more than 10% watermelon it felt like I was inhaling perfume and with 10%+ of the sweet and tart it gave it a odd burnt/crispy taste.

I haven't yet mixed to many flavors together other than 5% blueberry extra 2.5% pomegranate 2.5% watermelon, this berry mix was pretty darn good.

Edit: forgot to mention all of these other than berry crunch were good to go after mixing, I suggest 3days- 2 weeks steep on that to really get the berry part to shine.

 

[Kaezziel]

Start throwing a little cream and/or vanilla into the mixes and you'll notice a world of difference... Oh! And cotton candy... that one adds quite a bit to the juices for me so far!

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Its a really good idea to date all mixes and jot down the recipe. If it sucks at anything over 6 weeks it is very likely trash with maybe the exception of tobacco flavors.

If I still don't like something after a deep steep (too strong), I'll cut it in half or quarter it with unflavored to see if that helps.

Often enough, steeping simply allows the flavor molecules to more evenly distribute throughout the liquid. In some cases like mints you can go as low as 0.5% and get a very nice fresh mint flavor, yet its often suggested to use far higher percentages.

A lot of what we see as bold flavor in premium e-liquids is not more flavor, but well steeped flavor.

 

[Mrdaputer]

Just got a PM. Who makes Cream Fantastico?

You do!

Cream Fantastico

Blueberry Extra - 8%
Strawberries & Cream - 7%
Vanilla Swirl - 5%
Bavarian Cream - 4%
Cotton Candy - 4%
Sweetener - 2%

Good luck!



P.S. Or make your own Cream Fantastico. So far, this has been a hit, but it would be easy to adjust it to anything you might like. The uniqueness of this recipe is just the right mix of fruits to add flavoring, while maintaining a strong cream flavor and consistency. I use this as its own flavoring and often mix in equal parts with another single mix juice at the appropriate percentages for each flavoring. So, make a 15% single flavor mix, as an example (will vary by flavoring - see recommended amounts post: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...entice-flavoring-thread-137.html#post10979607), and add to CF for a complete juice. It's just a quick way to mix, and is great on drippers. Add flavor, add CF, to the dripper and vape. Quite nice I'm told. Good luck!

Need your thoughts on this one if you would Bill. I have strawberry and ripe strawberry and sweet cream, but no strawberry cream. What would you suggest as a ratio of using to start with of strawberry and sweet cream to get "strawberry and cream"?

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I would probably mix the ripe and sweet strawberry at 2% each with perhaps 4% of your favorite cream (sweet cream?) as a substitute. Probably up or down within 1% of goal, but only taste testing will work to be sure. It's a light touch and creamy, so you can play with it. If you start to taste dominant strawberry in the mix, we've gone to far. Hope that helps.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

About a week ago I got 5 TFA flavor extracts to try them out for the first time. I'm pretty happy with the quality honestly. I got pomegranate deluxe, sweet & tart, berry crunch, blueberry extra, watermelon. These are the percents i'm using for just single flavors. If it matters for anything my blends are always 50/50 6mg nic.

Pomegranate deluxe: 6-10%
Sweet & tart(more like smarties): 6-8%
Berry crunch(more of the crunch than the berry taste): 6-8%
Blueberry extra: 8-12%
Watermelon(very similar taste to hubba bubba watermelon gum): 7-8%

With these percents the flavor is perfect for my taste.
One thing I noticed was if I put more than 10% watermelon it felt like I was inhaling perfume and with 10%+ of the sweet and tart it gave it a odd burnt/crispy taste.

I haven't yet mixed to many flavors together other than 5% blueberry extra 2.5% pomegranate 2.5% watermelon, this berry mix was pretty darn good.

Edit: forgot to mention all of these other than berry crunch were good to go after mixing, I suggest 3days- 2 weeks steep on that to really get the berry part to shine.

If you start to taste the perfume, it means we have too much flavoring. If we lessen the percentage and then have too little flavoring, then what I do is go back to the perfume flavoring percentage and add about 2% raspberry to the mix, or sometimes 4-5% strawberry. This will kill the perfume and not change the flavor. Some flavorings, like grape, just taste like perfume or some chemical smell and only work with either raspberry or strawberry added. As mentioned above, adding creams, vanillas and sweetener/cotton candy to everything takes decent juice to great juice. It's just the missing ingredients that most juice needs. If you keep these at or under 6%, you will not have them dominate the mix, but they will then act as flavor enhancers. It'll change your juice to great the very first time you try them, so give it a go!

 

[readeuler]

Bit the bullet and placed an order, 20oz of flavor, on the way!

Bavarian Cream, Key Lime, Vanilla Cupcake, Vanilla Swirl, and Whipped Cream. I've never tried the cupcake, so hopefully I'll be able to find a use for it. If nothing else, I'll try my patented "blast it with strawberry" and see what happens.

But, I'll be glad to have a ton of Bavarian Cream at my disposal. I've used it, but only in recipes, so I can't say what differentiates it from Sweet Cream. I'll also be quite tempted to mix up a mega batch of Key Lime.

Which reminds me! I've actually been finding glass bottles at a few places, locally. A weird health store (think pamphlets on the miracles of cumin), and a natural food store. Not great prices, but fair, and really handy as I've given away a few 1oz glass bottles, and only had 8 to begin with.