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cliffy15

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The 1/4 teaspoon to 10ml is how i have been making it since i started.But i just very recently bought a scale,so now i can accurately do the 1 gram to 10ml woohoo haha.
I always did the 1/4 tsp to 10ml EM as well and an in the same boat with the scale. I didn't even realize this until just now but I can now mix by weight, too, since I bought a scale two days ago (even though I bought it do I can accurately weigh my quadcopter components) ... actually it might not be good for that.I'm not sure if it's accurate to even .1 gram since its a postal scale.

I shall have to test...
 

ItTechy

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So, sorry about the broken pipe and the Tourette's. :ohmy: :p

I don't have a specific recipe for Cream Brulee, but I do have this one from another juice maker.

Cream Brulee

Vanilla Custard - 8% (or FW Vanilla Custard (3%) + Cap VC V2 (5%))
Caramel - 3 - 4%
Sweetener - 3 - 4%
Brown Sugar - 2%

This is an estimate extrapolated from a cherry cream brulee recipe I have (9% cherry - FW Wild Cherry (4%) + FW Swiss Cherry (5%)) added to the above. I did add the brown sugar to this recipe as well. I taste both brown sugar and caramel in most cream brulee...quite wonderful, but flavor to taste, as always. There is enough Vanilla Custard in this to replace the customary cream/vanilla that I invariably add to almost every mix. As such, we are relying heavily on a single vanilla/cream/custard flavoring to accomplish this and do quite a bit. I like two or three vanillas and creams in recipes to allow me the flexibililty to adjust within that family on mixes. For this reason, this is why you will see two or more different vanilla custards added to the same mix, to provide that adjustment factor. It's a good rule of thumb. The single VC is not as useful. After making a 100DT, I would taste to find anything missing or anything where more flavoring may be required and adjust to suit taste...same as always. Hope this helps! :toast: :D

:2cool: :vapor:

"What's you talk'in about Willis"! I don't have not gosh %$#&!!** Tourette's sumana.......fricken dOOd who we bought this house from was a real rigger....

Used indoor rated PVC for a feed for a water line to the pool area and barn...the barn is like 200 yards from the house...what a chode! :p

Oh BTW I am up to $278.00 w/ out shipping, I forgotz to add my dilutents I need to replenish....Ramen Wrappers here I come LOL :laugh:

Wait isn't "Ramen Rappers" that Asian Rap Group???? :D
 

baseballmom

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Sweet is particularly important to add to the fruits, as fruits are naturally very sweet, and flavorings are not.
:

This exactly, very important

Personally I don't have much of a sweet tooth, never have, I am basically the opposite of AndriaD :p I need to wait another couple weeks to get some more hardware before I can really start hammering through 100 drop tests and get things tuned in better, currently just keeping it simple, learning how different fruits work together, which ones dominate and which ones smooth and give nice back tones.

.

Mmmm, I remember someone saying the exact same thing for the longest time, yes, me....all I can say is sweetener does make the fruits "sing", it enhances, it provides accenting, it boosts flavor...now I use 1% in my mixes now and yes, quite a dramatic difference/improvement, even at a low %, I was hesitant, I was trying to avoid using...I don't have a sweet tooth, drink coffee with cream only, think sugar ruins it, love my spicy and sour foods, love my fruit mixes especially, but they do need that something, for me, starting to use sweetener has been a true turning point in my mixing...it just adds an "oomph"...sorry had to comment because I can relate to what you posted not having a sweet tooth...I was there myself, just my:2c:, sweetener is so worth it in mixes...good luck!
 

b.m.

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I always did the 1/4 tsp to 10ml EM as well and an in the same boat with the scale. I didn't even realize this until just now but I can now mix by weight, too, since I bought a scale two days ago (even though I bought it do I can accurately weigh my quadcopter components) ... actually it might not be good for that.I'm not sure if it's accurate to even .1 gram since its a postal scale.

I shall have to test...
I did the test with mine yesterday.I had to make up a bottle of my current adv.I usually use ejuicemeup calculator,but since it doesn't show weight i downloaded another calculator that does,and when i mixed the bottle,i used my syringes just as normal,but i checked the weight to see if it was coming out the same as the calculator was saying it should be.The scale i have was dead on,i cant say so much with my measuring haha,i had a few that i thought i had right on the line but was off by just a hair.I really suggest a calculator that shows weight though,because the pg and flavors will weigh whatever the ml comes out to,10ml =10grams,etc. but the vg and vg based nic is heavier so it wont match like the pg does.

You can get calibration weights pretty cheap on ebay,but a quick way to test the scale at lower grams,a penny weighs 2.5 grams and a nickel weighs 5 grams.
 
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AndriaD

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I have a 16 month old son so I need to ensure everything is well out of his reach. He is somewhat obsessed with my e-cig just because he sees it has buttons and lights, and I would never forgive myself if he ever got into anything with nicotine and got sick or worse. I have seen some bad cases of this, but always has to do with absent minded parents. Don't leave juice around, especially stuff that smells yummy, just common sense. Those kinds of things give e-cigs a bad rep, people are smart enough not to leave alcohol/cleaners/medicine sitting around with young children, and yet they don't think "Oh this bottle of e-juice that smells like real juice should be always kept well out of reach as well."

Amen, amen, amen, and not just for young kids, but pets too -- they especially pick up on yummy smells! I've heard that cats don't have tastebuds for "sweet," they literally can't taste it... well, they can sure SMELL IT! And I think PG may be just as bad for cats as nicotine is to all small creatures.

My husband came into the kitchen last night, HOURS after dinner, and says "whatcha cooking?" I just shrugged and picked up 3 PVs from my desk: "blueberry muffin, strawberries and cream, and smoky cappucino -- take your pick!" He just rolled his eyes and went back to TV. :D He said it smelled like a restaurant in there! :lol:

Andria
 

AndriaD

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Ok made it up to page 300 lol looks like my strawberry may drastically improve with a little sweet cream. I don't like the cream flavors but I know I need to improve somehow. Any other suggestions before I get caught up..
Thanks

The bavarian cream is very good with strawberry. And don't forget sweetener -- as Bill said, fruit without sweet is pretty awful.

Andria
 

Slowone2

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The bavarian cream is very good with strawberry. And don't forget sweetener -- as Bill said, fruit without sweet is pretty awful.

Andria
Always use sweetener but looking to go to the next level. I want real fruit flavor, not pies or creams just a real good fruit. I've had them from vendors and friends but have not been able to get it myself. Plan on getting sweet cream Bavarian cream brown sugar vanilla swirl and marshmallow. Any others I'm missing to start playing around.
 

AndriaD

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Always use sweetener but looking to go to the next level. I want real fruit flavor, not pies or creams just a real good fruit. I've had them from vendors and friends but have not been able to get it myself. Plan on getting sweet cream Bavarian cream brown sugar vanilla swirl and marshmallow. Any others I'm missing to start playing around.

The thing about the creams, though... you don't really TASTE them all that much, but they act like "bolsters" to the fruit flavors. When I first got the INW Shisha strawberry, I tried it by itself, and I thought, "eh. thin." Then I tried it with bavarian cream, sweet cream, and sweetener, and "eh, thin" turned into "OMG!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!" I call the recipe Strawberries and Cream because it does have all those creams in it, but you really don't taste the creams... you taste STRAWBERRY!!!!!!! Loud and clear!

Andria
 

Slowone2

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Thanks andria that's what I'm going for. Have to pay for shipping so a few extras like the brown sugar may as well. I buy my strawberry and peach in 4oz bottles cause that's mostly all we vape. Try others but nothing has clicked yet. It is just time after three years lol for my strawberry to. "POP".
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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Always use sweetener but looking to go to the next level. I want real fruit flavor, not pies or creams just a real good fruit. I've had them from vendors and friends but have not been able to get it myself. Plan on getting sweet cream Bavarian cream brown sugar vanilla swirl and marshmallow. Any others I'm missing to start playing around.

As Andria mentioned, a fruit flavoring is not a complete mix flavoring. You do have to add the supporting flavors to get a complete mix. This is one of the primary differences between TFA and other brands. TFA allows us to construct complex mixes by giving us "incomplete" flavorings. They are flavoring pieces in an incomplete flavor puzzle. Until we add creams and vanillas and butter and sweetener, etc., we won't have a complete mix. We've learned this from trial and error and countless 100DT mixes. Flavoring juice is NOT INTUITIVE. It's a learned skill. When we keep the supporting flavorings around 6% or less (this will differ by individual preferences, but you get the idea), you bolster, as Andria said, the incomplete fruit flavoring, moving toward a complex and complete fruit flavoring. Keep adding more for pies and creams, less for "bolstered fruit." You get the idea...:toast:

I've mixed and learned from several commercial juice makers and I assure you, the ones I know DO add supporting flavors to their fruits (in this case, for example) to get to a delicious "Pure" fruit flavoring. If everyone could just buy strawberry and add PG, VG and nicotine to it and it tasted perfect, no one would buy juice for ten to twenty times this cost. Yes, this is hyperbole to some extent, but I'm trying to illustrate that juice making is learned skill, often counter-intuitive, and governed by experience, not cerebral machinations. It took me six months to stop thinking the problem, and start experimenting with all manner of combinations to finally make a single decent juice, my ADV cinnamon Danish by TFA.

Using this one flavoring for example purposes, I thought cinnamon Danish flavoring would be a great flavoring. It has cinnamon, creams/vanillas/Sweetner (Danish), and I all I need to do is mix it with PG/VG and add some nicotine. No way, Jose! My final mix was 10% CD, 10% Cotton Candy (a type of sweetener), and 6% Bavarian cream (but what about the "Danish" in CD?). That became a complete mix and a good ADV for me. Others have really liked it as well, I'm told. There are hundreds of similar examples of flavorings being incomplete mixes, most of them not obvious. So, I recommend you have a completely open mind to the possibilities of what may be required to make some really great juice, and what may be required and necessary to get from A to Z, or to a "Pure" fruit flavoring. :D

There's also no rhyme or reason regarding flavoring strengths either, and this varies by brand and within brands too. Some flavorings are too heavy at 1%, some not enough at 15%. Every one is like its own science experiment. So, we mix and learn how different flavorings work alone, combined, together, each influenced by our own personal likes and dislikes. It just really helps to be open to suggestion about all this mixing business.

And, if that weren't enough, there's different ways to mix flavorings, including Low and Slow (lower flavoring percentages and long(er) steeping time frames), and High and Fly (high flavor mixes (HFM) ready to vape at time of mix (ATM), or shortly thereafter with complete blending). Truly there are advocates on both sides of this one, and the truth is they both work great, particularly if one is both diligent and patient, and has time to both experiment and wait for a complete steeping process. Even so, there are many ways to reduce the time required to steep including heat and oscillation, among others. None of this is really intuitive, per se.

Finally, the hardware we use strongly influences our juice. Surely we can also understand that a clearomizer will atomize and flavor a vape differently than an RBA dripper. Different air flow, wicking, chamber volume, heat and temperature, coil construction, even vapor channel distances all influence the "taste" and vape we experience at the end of the day.

I belong to the High and Fly group, mixing with high flavor mixes and lots of ingredients to literally force flavoring ready to vape, rather than waiting for the subtle flavors to emerge over time. Truth be told, I like both methods, but talk primarily about one only as it is more useful and helpful for new DIY'ers. The only time I really take exception is when our "experienced" mixers insist there is only one way, or that one is superior to the other, which is not the case, as we not only have different tastes, but different ways we use juice, experience vaping, and even different mixing strategies. If the goal is great juice, there is no question that there is more than one way to do that. :toast:

So, live and learn, experiment, read, mix, but most importantly two things....be patient and keep and open mind. That's my two cents....stepping off soap box.... :pop:

Good luck to you and all the new DIY'ers participating and lurking. Jump in, your questions help us all. :toast: :2c: :D

:2cool: :vapor:
 

Slowone2

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Thanks you Bill, that was the biggest thing I feel I have been missing is the addition of other flavors(creams, vanillas, and such) in low quantity to bring out my fruit flavors I'm looking for. I'm looking forward to bringing my juice to a new level.

When trying out a flavor do you add nic or wait until you get the flavor you want first
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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Thanks you Bill, that was the biggest thing I feel I have been missing is the addition of other flavors(creams, vanillas, and such) in low quantity to bring out my fruit flavors I'm looking for. I'm looking forward to bringing my juice to a new level.

When trying out a flavor do you add nic or wait until you get the flavor you want first
The 100DT mixing I do has it all. PG and PG flavoring to 30%, 70% VG including 6 mg/ml (6% of mix) nicotine. Makes about 2.5 - 3 mls. I'll throw it in a tank and vape it until I understand the flavoring. After mixing for a while, you develop certain taste and smell sensitivities to the juice. Over time, I can detect a lot of flavoring that others can't pinpoint just by smell, all because of familiarity with the mixing process.

I just got an email from a friend who has been working on a copy of Agent Orange. He sent the original to me. I told him about what I could detect including M Type tobacco and rose flavoring. He just wrote me to tell me the that the missing ingredient in his mix was now confirmed by rose tobacco, and he thought of me. I don't think I have any special skill in this area, just familiarity with mixing and detecting the mix by taste and smell and what works for me. So, the more you work with it, the easier it gets. What's funny is I have a very low sense of smell, evidence of a misspent youth, really. Even so, I can do it. And, if I can do it, I really believe anyone can. No substitute for lab time and just making a lot of mixes and finding out what works for you. Over time it gets easier and easier. You'll be able to do this too! Jump in! :toast: :D

:2cool: :vapor:
 

Joie

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Bill.....you are very helpful to all of us....such great info.....thank you.
I do have a question about the fast -vs- slow method.......IF you do the higher percentages and VAPE right away....do you make larger qtys than say 100dt for your regular stock? If you use the same percentages on a larger qty doesn't it get too strong after it finally steeps sitting for a week or more?. Or are you just making small amount at a time?
So may questions!!!!!!
 

AndriaD

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As Andria mentioned, a fruit flavoring is not a complete mix flavoring. You do have to add the supporting flavors to get a complete mix. This is one of the primary differences between TFA and other brands. TFA allows us to construct complex mixes by giving us "incomplete" flavorings. They are flavoring pieces in an incomplete flavor puzzle. Until we add creams and vanillas and butter and sweetener, etc., we won't have a complete mix. We've learned this from trial and error and countless 100DT mixes. Flavoring juice is NOT INTUITIVE. It's a learned skill. When we keep the supporting flavorings around 6% or less (this will differ by individual preferences, but you get the idea), you bolster, as Andria said, the incomplete fruit flavoring, moving toward a complex and complete fruit flavoring. Keep adding more for pies and creams, less for "bolstered fruit." You get the idea...:toast:

The only part I've found to be really non-intuitive is the thing about mixing in other fruits at low percents, to counteract the perfumey taste; never would have guessed that one! But the rest... in many ways, not really so different from cooking. I'm from a family that takes good food seriously, and that never means "single flavors" -- nearly everything I cook is a complex melange of flavors, some of them seemingly unrelated to the end product, but they all work *together* for something really mouth-watering -- I grasp that concept perfectly, and really don't mind taking the trouble to experiment and play to get the best outcome, just as I do with different meals I prepare -- nothing I cook is ever quite the same twice. :D


Using this one flavoring for example purposes, I thought cinnamon Danish flavoring would be a great flavoring. It has cinnamon, creams/vanillas/Sweetner (Danish), and I all I need to do is mix it with PG/VG and add some nicotine. No way, Jose! My final mix was 10% CD, 10% Cotton Candy (a type of sweetener), and 6% Bavarian cream (but what about the "Danish" in CD?). That became a complete mix and a good ADV for me. Others have really liked it as well, I'm told. There are hundreds of similar examples of flavorings being incomplete mixes, most of them not obvious. So, I recommend you have a completely open mind to the possibilities of what may be required to make some really great juice, and what may be required and necessary to get from A to Z, or to a "Pure" fruit flavoring. :D

Question for you: I have some EM, and I also have some MBV Cotton Candy flavoring that a friend PIFed me; I can't turn up anyone who seems to have tried that flavoring, to have any sort of idea of it -- have you tried theirs? I thought I would mix up something simple that needs sweetener, and try a small batch with the EM, the CC flavoring, and some TFA sweetener, so I can get an idea of their different tastes. Just wondered if you knew anything at all about the MBV CC flavoring -- oh, and also -- how long does it take for EM crystals to dissolve?

Thx!
Andria
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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Bill.....you are very helpful to all of us....such great info.....thank you.
I do have a question about the fast -vs- slow method.......IF you do the higher percentages and VAPE right away....do you make larger qtys than say 100dt for your regular stock? If you use the same percentages on a larger qty doesn't it get too strong after it finally steeps sitting for a week or more?. Or are you just making small amount at a time?
So may questions!!!!!!
I make large quantities of juice, rarely less than 100 ml per flavoring. Other than .1% citric acid, I don't do anything different on large batches, although sometimes I will mix up the PG elements only (30% of mix) and let it sit until I mix the juice. This is a form of steeping, but in the end makes little difference. Flavoring blends in 2 to 4 hours, and pretty much stabilizes in 24 to 48 hours with HFM, then for 99% of the mixes stays that way. Some does get weaker (lemon in some mixes), some does get stronger. Personally, I mix my ADV juice, my CD, in 500 ml batches, which lasts about a month or so. I will mix Jo's Peach Cobbler about 200 mls at a time, which lasts her about a month or so. I keep 40 juices in 30 ml bottles for random use and juice changes, but keep 120 ml bottles of 20 of those as backups. Finally, I keep 500 ml mixes of 20 different bases (PG only) of those 40 flavorings on hand. But I'm a freak of the vape world....maybe any world. :facepalm: :ohmy:

The most important part of vaping after developing or finding a good recipe is a fresh wick of proper material and a good coil. Those do more to ensure delicious juice than anything else. I'm reminded of that every day when I change my wick and every few days when I replace a coil. I do recommend the KGD (Koh Gen Do Japanese Cotton). Best I've found, and has great following and support. Yes, better then rolled or balled cotton, synthetics, etc., etc., imho. Tests (PBusardo - unscientific) show that it wicks better than the other leading materials that we read about here. Also, I like organics, unbleached just for peace of mind.

A good tensioned microcoil with great wicking will make that juice really pop. New coilers come out every day making it very easy for anyone to do it now. The best coils in the market today cannot compare to what we can all easily make in a minute or less (three minutes or less when you are new). Throw in some KGD and watch that juice come alive! Jo sometimes says that her juice just isn't cutting it anymore. Vapor tongue? Nope, invariably we change her wick and coil and the "magic" returns. So, even the best juice suffers from old wicks and coils. :2c:

If you are seeing changes in your juice with time, just drop a drop of citric acid (10% solution) at one drop for every 30 mls or so of mixed juice. It'll substantially stop the juice from changing. Even so, 99% of the time, it's not necessary even with my larger batches. If I ever make juice for someone else, though, I always add the citric acid as I don't know what the shelf life will be on it, and CA is a great preservative and anti-bacterial agent, and at the levels suggested is harmless (unless you are bacteria), cannot be tasted, will not change the flavoring, will help stop the flavoring from changing, and just eliminates one more variable.

The question is a really good one and is quite logical. So, if Low and Slow takes a long time to have the flavorings fully emerge, wouldn't large quantities of High and Fly become too strong? Hasn't worked that way for me with HFM. Starts and ends good. Sure there's a good reason and explanation, but I don't know what that is, only from experience that it's good and stays good 99% of the time. Thanks for the tip of the hat! Kindest regards, happy mixing, and have a great Vape! :toast:

:2cool: :vapor:
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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The only part I've found to be really non-intuitive is the thing about mixing in other fruits at low percents, to counteract the perfumey taste; never would have guessed that one! But the rest... in many ways, not really so different from cooking. I'm from a family that takes good food seriously, and that never means "single flavors" -- nearly everything I cook is a complex melange of flavors, some of them seemingly unrelated to the end product, but they all work *together* for something really mouth-watering -- I grasp that concept perfectly, and really don't mind taking the trouble to experiment and play to get the best outcome, just as I do with different meals I prepare -- nothing I cook is ever quite the same twice. :D




Question for you: I have some EM, and I also have some MBV Cotton Candy flavoring that a friend PIFed me; I can't turn up anyone who seems to have tried that flavoring, to have any sort of idea of it -- have you tried theirs? I thought I would mix up something simple that needs sweetener, and try a small batch with the EM, the CC flavoring, and some TFA sweetener, so I can get an idea of their different tastes. Just wondered if you knew anything at all about the MBV CC flavoring -- oh, and also -- how long does it take for EM crystals to dissolve?

Thx!
Andria

I've tried perhaps a dozen MBV flavors but not the cotton candy, so sorry, no can help with that one. I think I've beat the EM thing to death. If you just joined the thread, I use TFA cotton candy, and not the crystals, but it's just a personal taste thing for me, and many others have had different experiences. It's all good...:toast:

Andria, what makes some things counter intuitive for others is, for example, that adding creams to fruits won't make it taste like cream. OR, that adding sweetener to a fruit won't make the fruit too sweet. So, adding cream and sweetner to our fruits will not make them creamy and sweet? NO! Not at low levels. I would say that is a counter intuitive idea. Again, we've beaten this one to death and the key is, of course, the lower percentage of these secondary flavorings added. For me, it's about 15% of mix or 6% of each one, i.e., creams and vanilla at 6% and sweetener at 3 - 4% (about 15% overall), won't make the mix too creamy sweet, FOR ME. Increase that amount by even 1 or 2% and it will become, or start to become, creamy sweet FOR ME. Keep adding then and create creams, shakes, Danish, pies, cakes, etc. For every example, though, like this, there are exceptions, so we just have to flavor to our own tastes to find the sweet spots with primaries and secondaries.

I just want to say thank you to you and everyone who has participated on this thread. It has helped me a great deal to learn and share here with everyone, and has helped me to deal with a significant family loss I had earlier this year. Many thanks! I appreciate it, and if I can give back, well, it's the least I can do. Many, many thanks, and kindest regards! :toast: :D

:2cool: :vapor:
 
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