The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[THOMAS CAMPAGNA KUNRATH]

My all-day,

Black honey tpa 6%
Ry4 double tpa 3%
Banana ripe tpa 3%

Tastes delicious to my palette!

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[JCinFLA]

I don't think I'd like the regular TFA Raspberry either, as this is what the manufacturer says about it:

"We were asked to provide a raspberry candy flavor, and this is it!
Please try the smallest size first. This is one of those flavors that some people like, and some really don't!

 

[Kenna]

I need to find someone who knows pipe tobacco juices. Theres a blackberry crumble juice that has pipe tobacco in it that i'd love to clone but have no clue about tobaccos, pipe or otherwise.

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[IDJoel]

In the link above, the section on "Sucralose" caught my eye, stating that TFA "Sweetners", was not just Sucralose in PG, but actually 5% Sucralose and 5% Ethyl Maltol (EM).

Downloaded the TFA SDS from here:

https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/msds/342300.pdf

This shows 5% Sucralose and 5% "3-Hydroxy-2-methyl-4-pyrone", which after googling that, looks like MALTOL.

Hi Mac,
Appreciate your pointing this out. I thought TFA's Sweetener was just sucralose too. I do believe that Maltol is not the same as Ethyl Maltol as they have different compositions: Maltol – C7H8O3 (full name: 3-Hydroxy-2-methyl-4H-pyran-4-one); Ethyl maltol – C8H10O3 (full name: 2-Ethyl-3-hydroxy-4-pyranone) according to this.
Also, TFA sells Maltol crystals here. Note the yellow highlighted line near the bottom (highlighting is TFA's) in the screenshot below:

Now what, if any, difference this makes to us as vapers (or flavor/recipe creators); I have absolutely no clue! I am tagging @Kurt in hopes he might have a minute to read this and maybe help clear things up a little. At least as how it applies to DIY.

Note: while trying to find my own answers, I found quite a few ECF threads concerning E. M. and Sweetener/sucralose, but none (that I found) dealt with Maltol vs. Ethyl Maltol. Also the differences I was able to note was Maltol was a naturally occurring compound and E. M. has to be synthesized.

 

[IDJoel]

I need to find someone who know pipe tobacco juices. Theres a blackberry crumble juice that has pipe tobacco in it that i'd love to clone but have no clue about tobaccos, pipe or otherwise.

Sent from my LG-V700 using Tapatalk

What is the name of the juice (name/mfg)? Also, @dannyv45 has a killer tobacco thread here. Those guys seem to be familiar with every tobac flavor out there. You might ask them too... (yeah, yeah, I know we have about re-posting! ). I'm just starting to play with tobaccos so I have almost no experience but TFA's Black Honey (tobacco) has been one I have used and like. It is not a very strong flavor compared to many of the others they speak of on the tobacco thread but I find it pretty easy to work with and doesn't require the long month plus shelf times many of the others seem to. It has a dark, slightly sweet/fruity flavor that is reminiscent to the smell of a pipe tobacco pouch.

 

[Kenna]

What is the name of the juice (name/mfg)? Also, @dannyv45 has a killer tobacco thread here. Those guys seem to be familiar with every tobac flavor out there. You might ask them too... (yeah, yeah, I know we have about re-posting! ). I'm just starting to play with tobaccos so I have almost no experience but TFA's Black Honey (tobacco) has been one I have used and like. It is not a very strong flavor compared to many of the others they speak of on the tobacco thread but I find it pretty easy to work with and doesn't require the long month plus shelf times many of the others seem to. It has a dark, slightly sweet/fruity flavor that is reminiscent to the smell of a pipe tobacco pouch.

Thanks, Joel, I used to follow that thread, but got overwhelmed but it. They are all such advanced tobacco mixers that there was very little I found helpful for me. Tobaccos are another flavor I've not been able to use. I got a free sample almost a year ago of a blackberry crumple with a bit of a distinct pipe tobacco in it. I fell in love! Now I want to clone it, but don't want to buy a lot of pipe flavors trying to find "the one". I guess I'll go the WL route & get sample sizes of whatever they have.

 

[Mactavish]

Hi Mac,
Appreciate your pointing this out. I thought TFA's Sweetener was just sucralose too. I do believe that Maltol is not the same as Ethyl Maltol as they have different compositions: Maltol – C7H8O3 (full name: 3-Hydroxy-2-methyl-4H-pyran-4-one); Ethyl maltol – C8H10O3 (full name: 2-Ethyl-3-hydroxy-4-pyranone) according to this.
Also, TFA sells Maltol crystals here. Note the yellow highlighted line near the bottom (highlighting is TFA's) in the screenshot below:
View attachment 596463
Now what, if any, difference this makes to us as vapers (or flavor/recipe creators); I have absolutely no clue! I am tagging @Kurt in hopes he might have a minute to read this and maybe help clear things up a little. At least as how it applies to DIY.

Note: while trying to find my own answers, I found quite a few ECF threads concerning E. M. and Sweetener/sucralose, but none (that I found) dealt with Maltol vs. Ethyl Maltol. Also the differences I was able to note was Maltol was a naturally occurring compound and E. M. has to be synthesized.

Still odd, it's not a "listed" ingredient. Maybe Kurt can enlighten us.

I have a bottle of erythritol from NN, seems like it may be the best choice for Sweetners.

"Erythritol:

This is a newer sweetener that just hit the market. It's a sweetener made from sugar-alcohols that works in the same way as Sucralose. But what makes this ingredient so excellent is that it extremely heat stable meaning it can last at much higher temps than Sucralose. This means that it won't completely ruin your coils as fast as Sucralose does because sucralose has mass losses at a much lower temp, temps that we exceed when we vape. So this makes Erythritol a super effective sweetener for those who use tanks, or don't change wicks often. This can be found at nudenicotine.com or ecigexpress.com and will be sold in a 5% solution. Use exactly as you would sucralose."

 

[Kenna]

Hi Mac,
Appreciate your pointing this out. I thought TFA's Sweetener was just sucralose too. I do believe that Maltol is not the same as Ethyl Maltol as they have different compositions: Maltol – C7H8O3 (full name: 3-Hydroxy-2-methyl-4H-pyran-4-one); Ethyl maltol – C8H10O3 (full name: 2-Ethyl-3-hydroxy-4-pyranone) according to this.
Also, TFA sells Maltol crystals here. Note the yellow highlighted line near the bottom (highlighting is TFA's) in the screenshot below:
View attachment 596463
Now what, if any, difference this makes to us as vapers (or flavor/recipe creators); I have absolutely no clue! I am tagging @Kurt in hopes he might have a minute to read this and maybe help clear things up a little. At least as how it applies to DIY.

Note: while trying to find my own answers, I found quite a few ECF threads concerning E. M. and Sweetener/sucralose, but none (that I found) dealt with Maltol vs. Ethyl Maltol. Also the differences I was able to note was Maltol was a naturally occurring compound and E. M. has to be synthesized.

I'd always heard the their sweetner was EM, or Cotton Candy (not circus).

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Hi Mac,
Appreciate your pointing this out. I thought TFA's Sweetener was just sucralose too. I do believe that Maltol is not the same as Ethyl Maltol as they have different compositions: Maltol – C7H8O3 (full name: 3-Hydroxy-2-methyl-4H-pyran-4-one); Ethyl maltol – C8H10O3 (full name: 2-Ethyl-3-hydroxy-4-pyranone) according to this.
Also, TFA sells Maltol crystals here. Note the yellow highlighted line near the bottom (highlighting is TFA's) in the screenshot below:
View attachment 596463
Now what, if any, difference this makes to us as vapers (or flavor/recipe creators); I have absolutely no clue! I am tagging @Kurt in hopes he might have a minute to read this and maybe help clear things up a little. At least as how it applies to DIY.

Note: while trying to find my own answers, I found quite a few ECF threads concerning E. M. and Sweetener/sucralose, but none (that I found) dealt with Maltol vs. Ethyl Maltol. Also the differences I was able to note was Maltol was a naturally occurring compound and E. M. has to be synthesized.

I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere that Maltol is a baby laxative. Don't think I want that in my juice.

 

[Slots]

"Erythritol:.
But what makes this ingredient so excellent is that it extremely heat stable meaning it can last at much higher temps than Sucralose.

I can back that statement up.
I use Erythritol in the kitchen, and it does resist dissolving.
Certain recipes I have to use the powdered form of it or the recipes will be "grainy".
It all depends on the cooking time, and the amount of liquid in the recipe ... such as the difference between a cheesecake or a cookie.
Sounds like a winner to me if it's in a liquid form, and I can understand why the coils would not clog up as bad.
Thanks for the "find", and passing it on.

 

[Mactavish]

I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere that Maltol is a baby laxative. Don't think I want that in my juice.

Don't think you have to worry, there are probably lots of different types of "maltols". The EM we use is popular in many recipes. From all I've read, some of the links I supplied in my message above, show me that the TFA "SWEETNER" contains EM, or something similar or identical in their own SDS, which is not on my bottle label, or listed on their sites description, which is what bothers me. I use the EM at 5% in VG from nude nicotine.

 

[IDJoel]

Thanks, Joel, I used to follow that thread, but got overwhelmed but it. They are all such advanced tobacco mixers that there was very little I found helpful for me. Tobaccos are another flavor I've not been able to use. I got a free sample almost a year ago of a blackberry crumple with a bit of a distinct pipe tobacco in it. I fell in love! Now I want to clone it, but don't want to buy a lot of pipe flavors trying to find "the one". I guess I'll go the WL route & get sample sizes of whatever they have.

I hear ya! Most is over my head too. I only suggested it because they seem to have one heck of a "brain trust" on that thread and they might be able to give you a few suggestions to help narrow down their search. They also seem quite friendly/tolerant about questions from those of us that are not "connoisseurs."

You still haven't told me the name/brand. Not sure if the link was intentional, or one of the "auto attach," but if it was intentional; it is not to a specific eliquid.

 

[IDJoel]

Still odd, it's not a "listed" ingredient. Maybe Kurt can enlighten us.

I have a bottle of erythritol from NN, seems like it may be the best choice for Sweetners.

"Erythritol:

This is a newer sweetener that just hit the market. It's a sweetener made from sugar-alcohols that works in the same way as Sucralose. But what makes this ingredient so excellent is that it extremely heat stable meaning it can last at much higher temps than Sucralose. This means that it won't completely ruin your coils as fast as Sucralose does because sucralose has mass losses at a much lower temp, temps that we exceed when we vape. So this makes Erythritol a super effective sweetener for those who use tanks, or don't change wicks often. This can be found at nudenicotine.com or ecigexpress.com and will be sold in a 5% solution. Use exactly as you would sucralose."

You'll have to give us your impressions when you have a chance to use it. I'm interested.

 

[IDJoel]

I'd always heard the their sweetner was EM, or Cotton Candy (not circus).

They actually make a flavor called "Sweetener."

 

[Kenna]

I hear ya! Most is over my head too. I only suggested it because they seem to have one heck of a "brain trust" on that thread and they might be able to give you a few suggestions to help narrow down their search. They also seem quite friendly/tolerant about questions from those of us that are not "connoisseurs."

You still haven't told me the name/brand. Not sure if the link was intentional, or one of the "auto attach," but if it was intentional; it is not to a specific eliquid.

It's G2 Vapor's El Blacco. Blackberry crumble with a touch of pipe tobacco. Giant Vapes has it.

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[Kenna]

They actually make a flavor called "Sweetener."

That's what I use.

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[Friscoweather]

I don't think I'd like the regular TFA Raspberry either, as this is what the manufacturer says about it:

"We were asked to provide a raspberry candy flavor, and this is it!
Please try the smallest size first. This is one of those flavors that some people like, and some really don't!

I like to eat raspberries but all of the flavors I've tried just taste nasty to me. I must be one of those that can't handle that particular flavor.

I have the same issue with apple...go figure.

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[Kenna]

I like to eat raspberries but all of the flavors I've tried just taste nasty to me. I must be one of those that can't handle that particular flavor.

I have the same issue with apple...go figure.

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Me, too. Apples & raspberries, & cinnamon.

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[Kurt]

Maltol is not ethyl maltol, but they are structurally and probably taste-wise very similar. Maltol is naturally occuring, EM is synthesized. Probably both about the same inhalation safety, that is probably safe, but long term studies have not been done. Both are used to add a caramel/cotton candy taste, which to me does not add real sweetness, but can be a nice addition to get a slightly caramelized sugar character.

Erythritol is a "sugar alcohol". Used in sugarless and low-carb products. I don't know about long term inhalation risks, but I tend to doubt there would be a problem. Never vaped it. Another is xylitol. Both tend to give me stomach issues and laxative effects when eaten, and I generally avoid them, but I don't know if this would be the case with vaping. Not a fan of their taste to me, especially the after taste.

All four of these have wiki pages, where you can see their structures and get details about them.

Maltol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ethyl maltol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Erythritol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Xylitol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mactavish]

Maltol is not ethyl maltol, but they are structurally and probably taste-wise very similar. Maltol is naturally occuring, EM is synthesized. Probably both about the same inhalation safety, that is probably safe, but long term studies have not been done. Both are used to add a caramel/cotton candy taste, which to me does not add real sweetness, but can be a nice addition to get a slightly caramelized sugar character.

Erythritol is a "sugar alcohol". Used in sugarless and low-carb products. I don't know about long term inhalation risks, but I tend to doubt there would be a problem. Never vaped it. Another is xylitol. Both tend to give me stomach issues and laxative effects when eaten, and I generally avoid them, but I don't know if this would be the case with vaping. Not a fan of their taste to me, especially the after taste.

All four of these have wiki pages, where you can see their structures and get details about them.

Maltol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ethyl maltol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Erythritol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Xylitol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then what is the type of "Maltol" listed in the TFA "SWEETNER" SDS as:
"3-Hydroxy-2-methyl-4-pyrone"
It's 5%, the other 5% is sucralose.