The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

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wv2win

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Ludo is not a chemist, he's the owner of the company.

"Janty did. I personally mixed the taste at a liquid manufacturer's premises, way back in 2008. And thus, RY4 became Janty's in house taste.
It's the only taste I personally thought would be appreciated by many people. Last year we launched RY4X, that is Mik's mixture of PG and VG of the same formula".

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...7470-what-origin-ruyan-4-a-2.html#post2211458

Gotcha. I was just using chemist in reference to an earlier post. So I guess that technically the closest to the original? If so then why do people say it tastes different?

If I understand emberl's post correctly, which corresponds with my understanding of why the "original" RY4 taste was lost, is because the chemist or "worker bee" who developed the mixture moved on. But Ludo, who owns Janty was able to develop several replacement RY4's, with RY4X and their new Elixir being the newest.

BUT, their first replacement, their classic RY4, (just RY4 on their site), is very close to the original. I believe this has been confirmed by many of us who have tried both the original and Janty's classic RY4. RY4X, tastes nothing like the original RY4, IMO. The Elixir line is definitely closer than RY4X but not nearly as close as their classic RY4. I wouldn't vape the RY4X but I would vape the Elixir, just not instead of their classic RY4.
 
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billherbst

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Many questions come to mind in light of the past day's posts. (These questions are not intended to cast aspersions on anyone's information or position, by the way. Just thinkin' out loud, sort of...)

If Ludo, the owner of Janty, truly was the creator of the original RY4, as he stated, I wonder how that went down? There he was at a manufacturing facility in China back in 2006 or 2007, presumably one that produced eliquids. Did he simply put on an apron in the lab kitchen and grab flavorings off the shelves like Julia Child making a sauce for coq au vin? Or was he aided by a chemist/sous chef who mixed trial liquids for him, then altered the recipe according to Ludo's reactions and suggestions?

Was the manufacturing facility owned by Dekang? And how did Dekang acquire rights to the "recipe"? Or did they? Did Ludo make a deal to share the recipe with Dekang? Or did the chemist just begin using Ludo's recipe to produce the newly-christened RY4, with or without Ludo's blessing? I mean, how ad hoc was all this? And was it formalized later with agreements and contracts, or disseminated "under the table?"

If the Ludo/Janty recipe was the original, were the various subsequent Dekang versions duplications, facsimiles, approximations, or permutations that pushed the envelope by altering/adding flavors and the changing the mix of elements?

If RY4 was created by Ludo on that visit, what about RY1, RY2, and RY3? Did those exist previously? Or were they the first through fourth "experiments" of that day, with each subsequent iteration being a further flavor refinement? Or did Ludo and/or the chemist start with RY3 and work from there to make RY4?

On a lighter note, is Ludo the "Colonel Sanders" of ecig liquids? And is this whole mystery tantamount to a debate about which is the "true" KFC fried chicken---original recipe or extra crispy?

Why are there no legions of lawyers cranking out cease-and-desist court orders about the use of the name "RY4" by unauthorized pirate vendors/suppliers making up their own ersatz recipes but calling it RY4, like bogus bathtub gin in the 1920s being labeled Canadian Club (or even more like Marlboro forcing ecig vendors to change the names of their Marlboro-facsimile juices, as has recently occurred)? I mean, surely someone thought about trademarking the name RY4 and its formulation. Or was the cat already out of the bag by that time? Or are the trademark/copyright laws in China vastly different from those on this side of the Pacific pond?

I'm as curious about this fascinating mystery as anyone else and would love to learn the authentic history, although---as I wrote in a previous post---I'm somewhat of an infidel in that I don't really care whether I vape the "original" RY4 or a 7th-generation evolutionary mutant. RY4 is like pizza to me; I like it in many forms, some of which barely resemble each other except to share certain common ingredients. I guess that makes me an RY4 "liberal" rather than an RY4 "conservative." LOL.

Anyway, I hope those who know the history will enlighten us further.
 

GMalarkey

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Just from what I've learned in my very brief stint of vaping about how popular RY4 is I would find it hard to believe the original recipe wasn't recorded somewhere. Compare RY4 to other insanely popular creations, for example Coca-Cola. The creation of Coke was documented because the company intended on creating a hit, something they would be able to precisely reproduce and make money off of. They entered their venture to make a profit so they documented everything. Why wouldn't the creators of RY4 do the same especially in an age when it is very easy to record every detail of the process? They were obviously attempting to make a lucrative product, any businessman would take all the steps in his power to ensure his success.

But as to the other points I would be very interested to know how things played out, would be good to know something of the history of the activity we all enjoy so much. Even if it was in a VH1 Behind the Music type thing. Lol.

Finally where is Adam West and his bat gadget that can separate the elements of the original perfectly and tell us how to make it?
 

wv2win

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Just from what I've learned in my very brief stint of vaping about how popular RY4 is I would find it hard to believe the original recipe wasn't recorded somewhere. Compare RY4 to other insanely popular creations, for example Coca-Cola. The creation of Coke was documented because the company intended on creating a hit, something they would be able to precisely reproduce and make money off of. They entered their venture to make a profit so they documented everything. Why wouldn't the creators of RY4 do the same especially in an age when it is very easy to record every detail of the process? They were obviously attempting to make a lucrative product, any businessman would take all the steps in his power to ensure his success.

But as to the other points I would be very interested to know how things played out, would be good to know something of the history of the activity we all enjoy so much. Even if it was in a VH1 Behind the Music type thing. Lol.

Finally where is Adam West and his bat gadget that can separate the elements of the original perfectly and tell us how to make it?

I suspect that the way business is conducted in China, especially for a small industry like vaping liquid, is quite different and much more "ad-hoc" than it is in the West. We know their laws are different and you can be "gone forever" for much less that here in the West. Maybe the original "chemist" disappeared and the formula went with him. Maybe we will find out when the "History of Vaping" is written in 20 years - movie to follow.

Janty's classic RY4 is close enough to the original.
 

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wv2win

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Changning Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd.
A hunch says this is the guy that needs to be interrogated for the RY4 formula.

Wow, what a find - nice job! It sure fits with the little bit of information we have received on the subject of the mysterious change in the formula. Some US suppliers should band together and pay for the guy to move to the US!
 

billherbst

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Some US suppliers should band together and pay for the guy to move to the US!

wv,

You're kidding, right? I mean, don't we already have too many criminals in positions of power and authority in this country without importing any more? It's not like you can't get your Janty Classic RY4 without that guy. LOL.
 

emberl

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Ludo gave me permission to post this.

Janty/Ruyan first introduced the RY4 in The Netherlands in August of 2007.
International Vaporizer Society - Elektrische sigaret • Toon onderwerp - *** NIEUW - JANTY LIQUID ***

Ludo and a chemist went to the Dekang lab and tried to create the typical Ruyan flavor, based on the original Ruyan cigarette, Ludo loved that taste, at the time that was the only flavor available.
(tobacco flavors)

They attempted several times to make the flavor, so 1st try, 2nd try, all the way up to the 4th try.
After the 4th try, and a couple of changes, Ludo liked the flavor, however at the same time it was not really the Ruyan cigarette flavor, so he asked them to make the flavor for Janty and name it Ruyan#4.
Ludo knew that THIS was the taste that would make it in the e-cig world.
Ludo was a heavy smoker and THAT taste knocked him off of his chair. LOL.
Ludo knew that with vanilla and carmel and a couple of other ingredients, which he will not name, mix those up and you will get a flavor that will never get old, and you can use that basis to build other flavors.

Later on Ludo asked them to change the name to RY4 because they found that
1. the taste really had nothing to do with Ruyan and
2. it was not logical to use a brand name, even though it was the original plan to simply create the Ruyan flavor.

Back then, in 2007, it really was the beginning of the e-cig. Ludo really had no idea of the Chinese mentality.
It was all so innocent and they were so excited -sigh-.
Ludo thought they were the only ones and that this flavor was theirs.
Ludo later found out that Dekang gave the flavor away, now Ludo knows that's typical for the Chinese.
Ludo can not judge the story about the chemist who disappeared, that's an internal situation.

:p
 

billherbst

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emberl,

Thanks so much for posting this fascinating piece of history (and thanks to Ludo for giving his permission to share it)!

As far as I know, this revelation is a first for ECF. The threads that date back to the sudden change in the old Dekang RY4 formula are chock full of theories, speculation, gossip, innuendo, and lots of 2nd-, 3rd- and 4th-hand information, but no insider with real knowledge had previously stepped forward to pull back the veil and tell us how this whole saga actually unfolded.

I'm sure that many, many people who love RY4 will appreciate learning the story.
 

emberl

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Dekang did not make the flavor.
Back then the only flavors there were: tobacco, pipe, cigar and menthol.

Ludo created the first NON tobacco flavor, RY4.

He was under the assumption that this recipe was his, and would not be shared with other e-cig makers/chemists.
Someone at the Dekang factory gave the formula away.

What's secret about the formula?

Ludo knows, I don't.
 

wv2win

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wv,

You're kidding, right? I mean, don't we already have too many criminals in positions of power and authority in this country without importing any more? It's not like you can't get your Janty Classic RY4 without that guy. LOL.

Being a "criminal" in China could, in some instances, mean you are bravely standing up against a "wrong". But I was just kidding, anyway. Janty's RY4 is close enough to the orginal that I will survive.
 

wv2win

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Being a "criminal" in China could, in some instances, mean you are bravely standing up against a "wrong". But I was just kidding, anyway. Janty's RY4 is close enough to the orginal that I will survive.

Note: it sounds like it probably was the original. emberl thank you for sharing the information from Ludo. Is he from the Netherlands and is that where Janty is based?

Also, can you explain why the Janty RY4 has "JOYE" written on the eliquid caps?
 

emberl

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You're welcome wv3win.

Ludo is Dutch, so am I.
I had to translate the PM from Dutch to English......
Janty is based in China.

I don't know why Janty has "JOYE" written on the caps, I'm not associated with Ludo or Janty.
It's just that we're both Dutch and have been on Dutch e-cig message boards from way back then, like 2007.



Note: it sounds like it probably was the original. emberl thank you for sharing the information from Ludo. Is he from the Netherlands and is that where Janty is based?

Also, can you explain why the Janty RY4 has "JOYE" written on the eliquid caps?
 

wv2win

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You're welcome wv3win.

Ludo is Dutch, so am I.
I had to translate the PM from Dutch to English......
Janty is based in China.

I don't know why Janty has "JOYE" written on the caps, I'm not associated with Ludo or Janty.
It's just that we're both Dutch and have been on Dutch e-cig message boards from way back then, like 2007.

Thanks again for answering the questions. If you ever get the answer about the "JOYE" on the caps, I would be interested. Oh, and let Ludo know that I think his RY4 is the best by far.
 

STILLSMOK9

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Dekang did not make the flavor.
Back then the only flavors there were: tobacco, pipe, cigar and menthol.

Ludo created the first NON tobacco flavor, RY4.

He was under the assumption that this recipe was his, and would not be shared with other e-cig makers/chemists.
Someone at the Dekang factory gave the formula away.

What's secret about the formula?

Ludo knows, I don't.

Come on Man, if this Ludo character has the formula then what's keeping him from putting it back on the market with an obviously huge demand waiting on it? I mean even when it was on the market it was an exercise in futility for even the best e-liquid mixers to attempt to duplicate with it's mysteriously complex flavour. It baffled everyone and no one has come close to duplicating that unique flavour. Anyone that vaped the original would know that today's RY4's are not even like comparing Pepsi to Coca Cola, it's more like comparing Root Beer to friggin Ginger Ale... :facepalm:
 
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