The situation may be getting worse.
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It's interesting that you are asking for support from the community yet you don't share the details. This seems familiar. Let me guess....You're getting all the vendors together to form a group that will come up with some sort of regulations that are supposed to guide the whole community. Some vendors will agree, some wont. You'll triumphantly post these new guidelines and some vapers will like it and most will dislike that a group made up of a few vendors are trying to dictate to them what they can and can't do. Does this remind you of any government agency that you dislike?
Hopefully I'm wrong.
I think it's great to see this type of enthusiasm, but it will be very difficult to get the communities buy in when you don't include them. Let's have an open dialogue that is inclusive.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
I think it's great to see this type of enthusiasm, but it will be very difficult to get the communities buy in when you don't include them. Let's have an open dialogue that is inclusive.
Are you a vendor or supplier? I see you have manufacturer listed in your title, is it related to the E-cig industry in any way?
As much as I want to help, and as much as I'd love to be a part of the decision making process -- really, I would -- it's not my fight. My interests in these regulations are as an ordinary vaper, not as a supplier or a vendor or a manufacturer with a concern in the industry. I have no standing in this fight, nor does anyone who isn't one of the aforementioned concerns. If we try to get involved we'll just complicate matters and make any decisions that much harder to come to simply by way of what we all agree or disagree on, which is undoubtedly going to be as varied as the industry itself.
It is for the industry to introduce proposals for regulation to HC. They are the ones with vested interests in this. We are but consumers, and HC is not an agency that concerns itself much with consumers except peripherally. I wish I did have a stake in this so I could do something productive and make contribute my small part to this fledgling but vitally important industry in Canada, and as helpless as it makes me feel, I can't, and I understand why I can't. I can't make a difference because, at least right now, mine is not a voice HC will listen to.
So, I must pin my hopes on those with standing in this matter and hope for the best.
I'm not asking for anything from the community, CellWho. And to be frank...the input of the community is not being sought with regards to industry-wide standards, or appropriate regulation etc. That is a discussion for the industry to have with the people who can help them actually do those things professionally & effectively. Customers can't make decisions for an industry. The next move belongs to our suppliers.
I simply pointed out that the industry needs to get its act together, because its inaction is sustaining & maintaining this awful situation with HC. I pointed out that there are professional, skilled people who are willing & able to help...and that any supplier who recognizes this is encouraged to follow through & ask for more details. Our industry has things that it has to do, if it wants to survive.
I pointed these things out so that everyone would know exactly why this situation with HC still exists. And to deliver a kick in the behind to those in the industry who don't yet get that they have responsibilities here that aren't being met. To those who don't yet grasp that freedom from this nonsense with HC is attainable. And that the ball is in the industry's court.
Yes, you do in that you want to have decent access to e-cigs, e-juice etc, and be able to vape. In that sense, we all have a dog in this fight. But that doesn't change a thing re: what I said earlier about confidentiality. If I'm not sharing something with everyone here...it's because I've been directed by the people involved to not do so. My position obligates me to abide by that direction.
Only suppliers & the professionals offering to help them do what they need to do, need to know the details. All the details have been & are being made available to them. The details are not being made available to everyone on ECF, and they won't be. Period.
I simply pointed out that the industry needs to get its act together, because its inaction is sustaining & maintaining this awful situation with HC. I pointed out that there are professional, skilled people who are willing & able to help...and that any supplier who recognizes this is encouraged to follow through & ask for more details. Our industry has things that it has to do, if it wants to survive.
I pointed these things out so that everyone would know exactly why this situation with HC still exists. And to deliver a kick in the behind to those in the industry who don't yet get that they have responsibilities here that aren't being met. To those who don't yet grasp that freedom from this nonsense with HC is attainable. And that the ball is in the industry's court.
Yes, you do in that you want to have decent access to e-cigs, e-juice etc, and be able to vape. In that sense, we all have a dog in this fight. But that doesn't change a thing re: what I said earlier about confidentiality. If I'm not sharing something with everyone here...it's because I've been directed by the people involved to not do so. My position obligates me to abide by that direction.
Only suppliers & the professionals offering to help them do what they need to do, need to know the details. All the details have been & are being made available to them. The details are not being made available to everyone on ECF, and they won't be. Period.
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So you would be ok if they put forth regulations that said your liquid could only come in tobacco or menthol flavours, or 18mg is the highest concentration of nic you could buy?
I can assure you that nothing like that is on the menu, CellWho. And it never will be. If you go back to page 1 and 2 of this thread, you'll see what I mean.
oops I like this post, but skimmed through and actually want to retract my likiness. I don't agree anyone is going down in flames and I don't believe it is fair to post negativity regarding the fight we as Canadians are facing, as my belief is, if we bicker amongst ourselves, it will just be counter productive. Any news is great news, and we need to keep talking even if some of the folks on here are working on the sidelines, perhaps it's better not to stir up the pot until concrete action has been put into place.
Very well. The community will patiently wait for our saviors to come up with regulation that will only divide and create conflict in the community.
Should be fun.
The path to success has been taken by our neighbours to the south. We just don't have vendors of that size to make it happen. It's quite a shame.
Should be fun.
The path to success has been taken by our neighbours to the south. We just don't have vendors of that size to make it happen. It's quite a shame.
If something is a secret you should not be blabbing about it here period...Have we not learned anything this week about who is watching what we say here and using it against us.To withhold info from one supplier or manufacturer and not the rest all rediculous sorry.I agree with Dan here lets stop arguing with each other it is not helping our fight at all.
My comment wasn't about any specific regulation, it was pointing out the blind faith. We have no idea what the regulation are going to be because you won't share them.
If you are looking at the UK model, they historically have been much more accepting of ecigs.
Conflict is a critical phase when coming up with solutions to complex problems. Without conflict, there can be no consensus.
We did go through alot of crap didn't we HawtAngel, as both your name and my name were on that list, as well as Rachel's. I believe Switched's photo was on that site as well. The site is back up folks, and I believe this is just the "calm before the storm"
By all means it is within your right to take the likey away.
I see a similar pattern occurring here as what transpired with NVC and IVAQS in the States. There is a lot of POed vendors and members over that fiasco. I didn't like the leader of that particular fight and I am not too fussy about who is heading our fight here. There has been questions wrt to substantial amount of money here. It started off as pro bono. So why all of sudden we are rallying for funds?
Furthermore, I support Cellwho's observation. A similar pattern developed down South were vendors were directed to do this or that. It wasn't a democratic process nor decision.
Yes I am for regulation on the industry, I just don't like how the game is being played at the moment. As I stated I have a dog in this fight, yet I have not been approached or made privy to any of this. BTW I am not the only one in this boat.
So yes I call shenanigans on the whole affair.
I wonder switched if the information that has not been made available yet is because they only need a certain number of suppliers to "sign up"? Just a thought! And once they get those numbers, perhaps the rest will be made public to the rest. I know though, it would suck for you to not get what is going on, I feel the same way too as a vaper. But my mother always told me TRUST THE PROCESS
Hawtangel summed it up rather well.
In order to trust the process you must first and foremost have faith in the person leading the process
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Um...we're not, haha. I'm not asking vapers for one red cent. No one is. I'm just pointing out that our industry needs to get its act together, adopt standards and propose appropriate regulation. I didn't say a thing about funds.
I'm not asking for anything from the community. The input of the community is not being sought either, with regards to industry-wide standards, or appropriate regulation etc. That is a discussion for the industry alone to have with the people who can help them actually do those things professionally & effectively. Customers can't make decisions for an industry. Customers are not regulated. The industry is. The next move belongs to our suppliers.
Switched, are you a supplier? I don't recall you saying "Hey, I'm a supplier...so let me in on the deets." If you are a supplier, then this involves you & I would be happy to make you privy to all the details. But...
Given your confrontational attitude, personal attacks on me, & questionable trustworthiness re: confidentiality...in your specific case, I will need to consult first with those who are already involved. You're only going to be welcomed if the other vendors want you there & trust you. I know that I've been welcomed & appreciated in the role that I've been filling. If my participation is gonna be a stumbling block for you...then that's your problem, not mine. One thing's for certain: I'm not going anywhere. So you have to decide whether you're ready to work with me or not. Rest assured, I will be professional about it.
But yeah, I don't see why any bonafide Canadian supplier's participation should not be sought. To date, the people involved have never turned down a suppliers' request to see the details re: these efforts.
I don't personally think you are a supplier...but if you are, my apologies. Let me know if you want me to talk with the other vendors about bringing you in on the deets.
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I don't know all that Rachel knows, and little more than you know, but one thing is for sure, Canadian E-cig users and supporters, NEED someone like her, or you, but someone with her kind of passion, to spearhead our getting organized.
I don't know her any more than you do, but just based on her ability to effectively express herself here (whether you agree or not) and separate email communications with her, I can assure you she's putting in an incredible amount of thought, emotion, time, and effort into learning what's "been" done, what's "being" done, what needs to "be" done, to get a grassroots effort moving, in a well thought out and planned way. Without that, you get IVAQS.
I know that I, and most everyone who reads this, will only get behind a well-planned effort, and let's recognize and accept that that's what is in the works at this moment....a revised plan is being created, brainstormed, researched, tweaked etc., to determine how feasible and costly such a plan would be to undertake. And it must be very difficult to perpetually feel like she has to withhold information from supporters, but not succumbing to pressure to release details before they're confident in them is a strength, not a weakness.
So I really, really appreciate her efforts, THANK YOU Rachel, (Rachel for President!) and I respect the process even though it can be frustrating. But when there is a plan to reveal, I'm confident that everyone here will do every thing in our power to support it in whatever way we can!
Trust the process
Have patience
Agree to disagree
Vape On!
Motivaper...you just made my night.
Thank you! If you were here, I'd give you a slice of the key lime pie we just bought. Since you're there...I'll mix up some juice for you instead!
He made mine too.
the 2 of you are a force to be reckoned with.
thank you for ALL your hard work, It's all going to pay off soon!
the 2 of you are a force to be reckoned with.
thank you for ALL your hard work, It's all going to pay off soon!
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