The war against electronic cigarettes
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Excellent article & video put together to support eCigs. Based upon your posts, which I really appreciate, you must send a lot of time finding all of this stuff. Thanks for posting. It is much appreciated.
I recently retired and have some experience with research and refined web-searches.
I save the links on all Pro E-cig web pages. Such web pages are few and far between. Valuable references when networking and when posting comments on pages allowing comments.
Because I have my own domain and build websites...I am considering compiling links as well as information and creating a menu driven website to be used for quick reference. Several websites, videos, and letters written by Kristin, Bill, and others would be valued additions. Of course edits would be necessary on letters and none would be archived without permission.
A Pro E-cigarette website would be an asset. Such a website could be easily updated and edited. A menu driven website would be of value to the public as well as the ECF because we could refer to specific URLS as references. I'm a big believer in archiving information on websites as well as links because websites come and go. Would need to set up a network with a few ECF members to insure quality control. Still working on the "white board" thing.
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According to the FDA's report, they detected up to 42.3mcg of nicotine in a 100ml puff. At 16mg/ml, that represents .023ml of liquid...so although e-liquid is mostly PG/VG by volume, it is only .0023% of the total volume...what you SEE, therefore, is not propylene glycol vapor, but environmental water vapor that condenses in the PG mist exactly like the warmth of your breath produces a temporarily visible vapor in cold weather.
I admit that calling it "water vapor" seems disingenous when there is usually very little water in the e-liquid concentrate, but I suspect it is technically quite correct to refer to it as "water vapor" and the glycol is simply a catalyst.
I've found that it's simply easier to say "water like vapor" or "water vapor" when telling the many many people who ask me about my e-cig. I have went into all the tech part of it saying: Propylene Glycol vapor and all that, but most people have no idea what I'm talking about. Their eyes glaze over and look like a deer caught in the headlights. As soon as I tell then it's like a water vapor, it instantly clicks in their head and they get it. What Thulium said is basically true, even in the movie industry they refer to it as a Glycol water vapor...unless they use mineral vapor, but that's another story.
How True! The general public only wants to hear the "short story"
If you mention Propylene Glycol…You’re going to hear “What is that?”
The general public (including smokers) are not interested in doing research or even reading research articles.
Ask anyone in the general public (including smokers) to list 5 of the thousands of chemicals in a cigarette. Well, there’s Nicotine and Tars and ah ah ah ah
If a smoker asks me if its safe…I say yes…and add the water that comes out of the tap in your kitchen and the air you breathe is safe and clean. That usually gets a chuckle.
I find that the bewilderment in people's eyes settles to cautious semi-understanding when I mention that PG is used in fogging machines, that roughly the same mechanics are at work when Mother Nature creates atmospheric fog.
Yeah "fog machine" is generally pretty effective because even people who don't understand how fog machines work, they do understand that it is not real smoke.
Propylene Glycol, like water, is used to make antifreeze, but what the "Antis" freeze and don't talk about it is that it is used to make NON-TOXIC antifreeze. It is also used in Ozium air sanitizer used in hospitals and schools.
Its also important to point out how very little propylene glycol or vegetable glycerine (or anything at all, really) is actually used in an e-cigarette. There's probably more PG in a tube of toothpaste than in one cartridge, and stage fog machines use about a liter of liquid per hour of operation; while most vapers use less than a liter of liquid per YEAR.
My comment: My vape rings are performance art and thus protected under freedom of speech.
Don't censor me!
Don't censor me!
Upon the glossy stare, I usually mention this too, but it still doesn't wipe away the stare.
I guess it IS better to say water vapor, although I hate to be so generalistic. Folks DO understand it better, except one person told me that there were problems with vapers getting pneumonia.
uh-huh, okay then...
Folks DO understand it better, except one person told me that there were problems with vapers getting pneumonia.
uh-huh, okay then...
I was told the same thing... by a smoker... while he was smoking... in defense of his unwillingness to try vaping... because he was concerned about his health... He finished his warning with "I'd stop that if I were you... puff, puff, puff..."
Wow...strange that an online community of vapors with almost 50,000 members has not identified pneumonia as a problem. Strange that in three separate surveys of users, over 90% report their health has improved and the worst side effect mentioned has been temporary sore throat.
It would be good to know where this smoker is getting his information. I would not put it past ASH or that broad who writes the Ethics Soup blog to be spreading lies again.
It would be good to know where this smoker is getting his information. I would not put it past ASH or that broad who writes the Ethics Soup blog to be spreading lies again.
Pretty sure (actually positive) he was just, as we say in the South, just talking out his "bottom-side". 
Next thing you see from ASH may be another "we just don't know" study citing claims of possible links to pneumonia. Let 'em try it. Another good target for expert comments.
Next thing you see from ASH may be another "we just don't know" study citing claims of possible links to pneumonia. Let 'em try it. Another good target for expert comments.
There's water in antifreeze as well. Better stop drinking water!
Comprehension skills for the win.
Comprehension skills for the win.
Elaine, you need to spend more time in the Health area. You'll get an education. Kristin has gotten into it on some of the posts. I, personally, expect that there are some side effects from vaping. There's not too much in life that doesn't have side effects. Personally I've heard some incredible stories. Example, A fellow bought an e cig from the mall before he saw me vaping. He told me he used it for a couple days but quit because he started lunging out some ugly junk (polite description). So.........he quit vaping because the PV caused it.
Perhaps it was or perhaps he started loosening up the previous damage. He doesn't know and I don't know and anything he thinks he knows might just be that he really still likes smoking (trust me, I know that feeling). Anyway, there are a number of health ?issues? that are being attributed to vaping. Anecdotal evidence from either side remains an issue.
The prohibitionists have created a lot of mistrust among the general public and even current smokers. Each has a good excuse to support banning PVs until proven "safe and effective" and/or "not being a safe alternative to smoking". Their marketing budget is a bit overwhelming and our main, and basically only, tool is word of mouth and as much noise as possible in the news. We have a core of expert supporters, a number from the anti-smoking world at one time or other. What we need is some of these allies to convince some fence sitters to see our side.
I think I got philosophical enough for one post, but I've been bothered about this "side effect" issue.
The thing is, Jim, is that most of those complaints seem to disappear after a few weeks.
Just additional comments - I have yet to read a post from someone who got past the "just quit smoking stage" and came back to report that they were still having the same issues, which then went away after they quit vaping. One guy posted that he was ABOUT to quit vaping because of issues, but I haven't seen him come back and say those issue disappeared after he quit vaping. And even if he did, he's one of a very few that have those issues.
Where are all of the people who claimed to have serious side effects (coughing up a lung, etc) who quit vaping and got better (without starting to smoke again?) Out of thousands of people who could be reporting side effects on this site, I have yet to see one who could tie those side effects to vaping. If there were more than a couple that this happened with, we would have heard about it, because it'd be a serious issue.
As I've said before, there is no doubt that some people won't be able to vape - they will probably have a bad reaction to something in the liquid. The same as some people can't drink milk (lactose intolerance) or eat peanuts (nut allergy.) But to claim that there are serious side effects of vaping IN GENERAL, based on the very few with an intolerance, is like stating nuts are dangerous because it causes some people to go into anaphylactic shock.
To me, a "known side effect" is something that affects MOST of the users, not just a very few.
People should absolutely be warned that most early side effects are also side effects associated with the body healing from smoking, but that SOME people may have an intolerance to vaping and that they should quit using them if they are still having serious side effects after a couple of weeks.
We can't go into a panic everytime a vaper reports a side effect. We have to first rule out the symptoms associated with quitting smoking and PG allergies and then that person need to have quit vaping and had the symptoms go away before we start claiming that it was VAPING that caused it and not something else.
Just additional comments - I have yet to read a post from someone who got past the "just quit smoking stage" and came back to report that they were still having the same issues, which then went away after they quit vaping. One guy posted that he was ABOUT to quit vaping because of issues, but I haven't seen him come back and say those issue disappeared after he quit vaping. And even if he did, he's one of a very few that have those issues.
Where are all of the people who claimed to have serious side effects (coughing up a lung, etc) who quit vaping and got better (without starting to smoke again?) Out of thousands of people who could be reporting side effects on this site, I have yet to see one who could tie those side effects to vaping. If there were more than a couple that this happened with, we would have heard about it, because it'd be a serious issue.
As I've said before, there is no doubt that some people won't be able to vape - they will probably have a bad reaction to something in the liquid. The same as some people can't drink milk (lactose intolerance) or eat peanuts (nut allergy.) But to claim that there are serious side effects of vaping IN GENERAL, based on the very few with an intolerance, is like stating nuts are dangerous because it causes some people to go into anaphylactic shock.
To me, a "known side effect" is something that affects MOST of the users, not just a very few.
People should absolutely be warned that most early side effects are also side effects associated with the body healing from smoking, but that SOME people may have an intolerance to vaping and that they should quit using them if they are still having serious side effects after a couple of weeks.
We can't go into a panic everytime a vaper reports a side effect. We have to first rule out the symptoms associated with quitting smoking and PG allergies and then that person need to have quit vaping and had the symptoms go away before we start claiming that it was VAPING that caused it and not something else.
I think this frustrates me the most. As a health professional trying to stem that tide with solid information, I have been attempting to work reason into the discussions by people who seem so determined to correlate random symptoms with vaping. The problem is, I don't think it is the fault of the people claiming to have the symptoms. I suspect that freaking out over symptoms is actually a symptom.
I get a grin when someone claims that vaping a week changes the odor of their body's waste products. I get a grave concern when people start blaming vaping for serious symptoms that seem extremely unlikely to be directly related to vaping.
I'm beginning to suspect that there is a period of time without analogs, a stage of quitting, if you will, that some people who have mild symptoms are more distressed by them.
Could it be that some people who have recently given up analogs are susceptible to a "symptom panic" period where minor problems seem amplified for a short period of time? Add more complex symptoms possibly due to an unrelated infection such as a cold, flu, UTI, GI bug or other common minor illness and we get the "OMG I vaped and now I'm dying of an exotic side effect" posts.
I wish I could do research on health-related anxiety/stress induced hypochondria relating to quitting tobacco. I'll bet it is related to the MAOI withdrawal and it peaks and then subsides. Darn I wish I had some cash lol.
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