This is not good (my two cents)
- Thread starter Jim Davis
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Hi CheeMiss -
IMHO = in my humble opinion.
I'm vaping around my family because my mom and dad are ex-smokers - they have decided to vape instead of smoke. So they've chosen the path. My brother is a non, however has consented to be part of the experiment. He was never afraid of my 2nd hand smoke outdoors, he's not afraid of the vapor either.
I would like proof of scientific studies (note the plural, more than one) with control groups, to verify this data. I haven't read the entire forum yet, still working on that, but reading a link or heresay on a forum does not scientific proof make in my book. Once I've read some actual studies by scientists unbiased who's opinion is likely not compromised, then I'll be more comfortable.
I do believe myself that the expelled vapor is most likely harmless. But I cannot take a stand and fight tooth and nail for something I'm not 100% behind yet.
And I'm not scared, or meek, or chicken. I've escorted women into abortion clinics. I've participitated in protests, parades and vigils for which there was a lot of loud, angry opposition. I have strong opinions and am not afraid to show them. But I don't have such a strong opinion yet about vaping because the facts aren't all in. That's all. Once the facts are in (in my book) I'll pitch in where I see fit.
I love vaping and will do so even if banned. It's only a question of my public stance and committment at this point.
The gay marriage thing is a meaningless analogy. There is no money in gay marriages for the Government. The big money for Big Pharma in smoking cessation "meds" is important to this ban equation.
So aside from the rabble rousing, what does one do to "fight for their right" in this situation? I need concrete examples of action commoners can take.
I still contend that without a calculated action plan, rebellion against the evil goverment conspiracy is useless.
So aside from the rabble rousing, what does one do to "fight for their right" in this situation? I need concrete examples of action commoners can take.
I still contend that without a calculated action plan, rebellion against the evil goverment conspiracy is useless.
OK, guys going OT, please take this to General discussion or Outside not here in E-cigs in public!
I totally agree Chad, the ECF is a good place for everyone to share the experiences each has, the reasons they are looking at or are using a PV, and for logging in with information about Gov't policies and legislation, and what little research that has been published so far. It's a fair statement to say that there is more research needed. I don't see anything about studies underway, I do check in with ECA once in awhile, there's a lot to read there, also. I guess we just keep doing what we are doing, I'm thoroghly convinced it was the right thing to do!! But when I started having problems with PG - based juice I started to wonder, but so far the VG has worked fine, no sore throat or cough. I do know my Nicotine absorbtion is exponentially lower than cigarette smoking, (I did a TobacAlert test that shows that statement to be true) less all the toxins and tars and poisons associated with smoking. I feel 100% better than I have in years. So I'm willing to promote PV's in that light, a good one I think!
Kate, I didn't know there was such thing as TobacAlert test. I googled it, but it seems to be rather pricey. Would you mind sharing your results? What nicotine level did the test show after you switched to PV?
It seems that level "00" is no tobacco exposure, 11-22 is non-smoker, and 33-66 is smoker. How far did you drop?
Pricey? It's only $14.99 at DrugStore.com. That's cheaper than some pregnancy tests!
Edit: Plus it's Flexible Spending Account (FSA) eligible!
Chad:
Check this thread, post #68 is my test explanation and result
ADD:For anyone who is a very high nic user, example 36mg/ml nicotine, these tests are rather redundant, they only record levels up to 1000ng/ml cotine in urine. That max's out the reading, is unclear users exact Cotinine level. "Cotinine" is the processed by-product of Nicotine absorbtion in urine levels. I used to smoke 2-3 packs/day.
Most tobacco cigarette smokers using one pack of cigarettes per day (average) would max the test at 1000 mg/ml cotinine. There are other testers who have not yet posted results.
Check this thread, post #68 is my test explanation and result
ADD:For anyone who is a very high nic user, example 36mg/ml nicotine, these tests are rather redundant, they only record levels up to 1000ng/ml cotine in urine. That max's out the reading, is unclear users exact Cotinine level. "Cotinine" is the processed by-product of Nicotine absorbtion in urine levels. I used to smoke 2-3 packs/day.
Most tobacco cigarette smokers using one pack of cigarettes per day (average) would max the test at 1000 mg/ml cotinine. There are other testers who have not yet posted results.
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Pricey? It's only $14.99 at DrugStore.com. That's cheaper than some pregnancy tests!
Edit: Plus it's Flexible Spending Account (FSA) eligible!
I only checked the maker or manufacturer (?) website. Their order form had 5 strips package for around $56 + $10 shipping. Didn't think about checking drugstore.com, so thanks for the link.
Thanks for the link Kate!
I find that certain behaviors attract a certain personality type. This p-type's mantra is. "eff what you think, I'm doing what I want" What PV users do NOT need is a bunch of people who are just out to stir the pot, people that are brazen or audacious about thier vaping just to see how far they can push it, People who act as if they own a place start vaping with no explanation , and then cry foul when they get rough play in return.
There is this thing called tact, and another one called common sense, I find both appropriate for use in most public places.
There is this thing called tact, and another one called common sense, I find both appropriate for use in most public places.
Not true! ie: You're speaking up & stating your opinion via posting....Does that mean that you fall into that category???
FYI: On the main page, click on topic (forum) CAMPAIGNING, then click on the following thread:
Sticky: Now is the Time To Act! I am Serious! **updated** ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
LaceyUnderall
also, in the same forum, click on:
Sticky: Please email the FDA at the following addy ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
poeticwomyn
The FDA rep, wants USA citizens to write!
I think that you will find it very enlightening.
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I think you mis-understood my intentions, my comment was regarding the lack of tact and common sense. I lack both...
Ahhhh, I see. Your knocking yourself. Well DON'T. Because there are enough people out there that will do that for you!
I know that sometimes, a person, fed up & stressed out with, well, the non-sense of life, is just is not in the mood to play diplomat and may just answer directly & to the point, which to one person may seem tackless & lacking common sense but to another, who also is in that head space that day ie: lawyers & judges in a courtroom scenario, direct & to the point is a way of life. They have no time for finesse.
But, on the other hand, if you are like Posted by Elvin Pi(e) "eff what you think, I'm doing what I want", then yes......you do need to be sent to bed without your supper!
But, on the other hand, when pushing the envelope with finesse, smiling, friendliness & respect......I say GO FOR IT, NOTHING VENTURED NOTHING GAINED. That's called LIVING! Nespa?
btw: e-cigs are NOT banned in Canada. SmokeStik is in the process of a medical study as we speak. Check it out. My sister in law & her daughter are going to participate, along with some fellow employees from the courts were they work. Thanks to my pushing the envelope and brining e-cigs out of the closet.
And on that note, I am unsubscribing myself from this particular forum. So, I will not know if you are posting a question or comment directly to me.
Katie51, I am so very sorry if you took my pushing your buttons as an attack. I was using reverse phycology on you to get you going. I did notice in one of your posts (I think you changed it tho) that you were going to talk about it re: some sort of test you did for $15.
I was so elated to read that, but I think it is gone. I just wanted to bring you out of your shell, that is all. When a person gets angry, they forget about all the other reasons that are holding them back.
I did notice your post in the Campaigning forum & you seemed to be more supportive there. Sorry if you took anything I was doing as a personal attack for it was not. And if we were dealing in octaves, then you would see it as such. Texting really takes a lot away. Your a nice lady. ;-)
So page 14, what's the consensus? People who avoid conflict will ask for permission and people who love conflict will go ahead and light up.
As people have said, it's really a matter of tact and respect.
As people have said, it's really a matter of tact and respect.
So far the reaction to my e cig has been extremely positive. When I go out if I think anyone has a problem with it, I just strike up a conversation with them. I show them the device and give a brief explination of how it works. It seems if you tell them its like a "fog machine" they understand it better. The last order I placed with my etailer, I had them include a bunch of business cards. I just hand them out like candy. I have even generated some sales for the website by just conversing with patrons.
I have similar reactions. My favorite sales tactic is "asking permission" to vape at bars and restaurants. It always results in me pointing them to one of our local retail outlet stores. More sales for them, more orders for me and more users out there who are happy to have e-cigs.
I used to pass out my own cards, but (as one of my retailers explained to me) it was like Frito Lay passing out free samples in front of the local grocery store...
I think that depending on where I am, that will determine my style of vaping when I get it. I wouldn't think twice about it in a big open place like walmart and would just explain it to any workers that are alerted to it.
When it comes to a bar, everyone in my local town knows me (not like a friend, but just know who I am by looking at me), so if they say anything- I will just explain it to them. I don't think that they will have any issue. I don't drink alcohol, so there have been times that I have been bar to bar with soda that I have got from a previous bar- and they trust me enough to know that when I say that it's soda- that's what it really is. So I don't think that they will question me when I say "It's an e-cig and the vapor is like the stuff that comes out of fog machines.
Now if the bar is practically empty, I am likely to sit at the bar (or pool table) and tell the bartender up front what I have. But there are a lot of people out there that don't know that the "smoke" is actually just harmless like the smoke machines that a lot of clubs have.
When it comes to a bar, everyone in my local town knows me (not like a friend, but just know who I am by looking at me), so if they say anything- I will just explain it to them. I don't think that they will have any issue. I don't drink alcohol, so there have been times that I have been bar to bar with soda that I have got from a previous bar- and they trust me enough to know that when I say that it's soda- that's what it really is. So I don't think that they will question me when I say "It's an e-cig and the vapor is like the stuff that comes out of fog machines.
Now if the bar is practically empty, I am likely to sit at the bar (or pool table) and tell the bartender up front what I have. But there are a lot of people out there that don't know that the "smoke" is actually just harmless like the smoke machines that a lot of clubs have.
A good friend of mine can't stand the smell of my cigarettes. We often walk together to the on-site cafeteria at my work place for lunch. Usually, I'd be smoking away, and he'd be fanning his face to keep the smoke from coming his way. He was very tolerant, though, and only said he wished I'd quit "those things".
Well, when I got my 510, the first time he saw it, he had no idea what it was. As we walked to lunch, I explained it to him, vaping away the whole time. His only comment was, "Is that vanilla? Smells nice."
Battle won. War wages on. My point - a little explanation goes a long way. Keep up the fight, and be courteous and patient. Not all people are ****$.
Well, when I got my 510, the first time he saw it, he had no idea what it was. As we walked to lunch, I explained it to him, vaping away the whole time. His only comment was, "Is that vanilla? Smells nice."
Battle won. War wages on. My point - a little explanation goes a long way. Keep up the fight, and be courteous and patient. Not all people are ****$.
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