Don't take what I said the wrong way, Bill. I was just comparing my experience to yours and found it strange that there was a difference. Or it's incredibly plausible that we're experiencing the same thing, just interpreting in differently.
Tobacco Absolute (the NET redheaded stepchild)
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Don't take what I said the wrong way, Bill. I was just comparing my experience to yours and found it strange that there was a difference. Or it's incredibly plausible that we're experiencing the same thing, just interpreting in differently.
Don't take what I said the wrong way, Bill. I was just comparing my experience to yours and found it strange that there was a difference. Or it's incredibly plausible that we're experiencing the same thing, just interpreting in differently.
shatner,
We're cool. I took no offense at all. Didn't feel that you were contradicting me, just sharing what you experienced.
This would be easy if we were in the same room and could simply compare our bottles of Gold Rising. Shake 'em up, look at them, put a drop of juice on our fingers, etc. But alas... Yes, I could take a photo of the bottle and post it as a jpeg, but that wouldn't be the same as looking at it live.
If this were really important, I guess I could shoot a close-up video, put it on YouTube, and embed it here, but that's waaaayyyyyy too much trouble.
So what exactly is the difference between TA and NETs? It seems to me that TA gets looked at as some kind of step-child of NETs, but if it's an extract from tobacco, no matter the method it's still an extract and it doesn't seem logical to me to give it any less respect. So what gives? I've been interested in the subject for obvious reasons, since we all wonder what's in the juice we use, and I also have been thinking of delving into the world of DIY. Of course the more I know about all this will help me in making decisions about flavors in general and TA in particular concerning DIY. Thanks for any input you may have to share!
I can't see any way to answer that that isn't in the first post of this thread. Most comprehensive explaination of TA I've seen.
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Mr.Mann, I truly appreciate your efforts explaining TA; here, on the NET thread, VCV thread and others, but the above quoted question still looms large with me also. For us slow learners, care to address it one more time? Thanks in advance.
Sweet. I'll be honest; I can be an ... hole sometimes and not realize it. A lot of times I'll come back to a post I made and think to myself "Wth was I thinking?" and "Damn, what I said was really rude.".
Not an excuse, but I have Asperger's Syndrome (very low on the autism spectrum) and that's a big issue we deal with; social boundaries and not realizing that what is being said can come across as rude.
But I'm glad you took it the way I meant it. I'd love to sit down with you, Mr.Mann, Tez, RPADTV and several others to compare, contrast and chew the fat. Hopefully one day we can make that happen.
For those that want to consider TA a NET, go ahead. No one person makes the rules. Like I said, "there's no real consensus," which means some see no distinction between the two and some do.
The best way I can explain it (for the way I consider it) is to think about natural/extracted tobacco being considered in the same way as developing photos.
Here we see photos being developed, and
here we see photos being developed.
The best way I can explain it (for the way I consider it) is to think about natural/extracted tobacco being considered in the same way as developing photos.
Here we see photos being developed, and
here we see photos being developed.
I also look at it that an ingredient extracted from tobacco doesn't automatically make it a NET because ALL nic juices contain an ingredient extracted from tobacco; the nicotine.
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The best I've been able to figure out is that TA is more of a small and select extraction using stronger chemicals to distill it, whereas a naturally extracted will contain a larger number of components of the tobacco leaf. Is this anything close to the truth?
As I said in the Aroma ejuice subforum, the main difference to me is as follows, and you can agree or not as you choose:
Tobacco absolute is a consumer product. I can go to any of the better DIY shops and order "5mls each of banana flavor, caramel flavor, tobacco absolute and cotton candy flavor, please", and make my own banana, caramel, tobacco and cotton candy juices. Another person can buy the same flavorings and make juices that taste exactly the same.That 5ml bottle will have the concentrated essence of a dozen tobacco plants from who knows where.
NET is not a consumer product. It is made artisanally by the e-liquid maker solely for vaping purposes, and is only available to them (exception: My Vape Juice who sells their NET concentrates to home DIYers).
I am unfortunately one of those who dislikes TA intensely. I don't really care where it comes from as long as it doesn't wind up in my juice
Shatner: that Tom Ford is a wicked good fragrance. Have you ever tried Eau d'Italie fragrances? Their Bois d'Ombrie, I'm fairly certain, has tobacco absolute among its base notes. Smells a lot better than it tastes
Tobacco absolute is a consumer product. I can go to any of the better DIY shops and order "5mls each of banana flavor, caramel flavor, tobacco absolute and cotton candy flavor, please", and make my own banana, caramel, tobacco and cotton candy juices. Another person can buy the same flavorings and make juices that taste exactly the same.That 5ml bottle will have the concentrated essence of a dozen tobacco plants from who knows where.
NET is not a consumer product. It is made artisanally by the e-liquid maker solely for vaping purposes, and is only available to them (exception: My Vape Juice who sells their NET concentrates to home DIYers).
I am unfortunately one of those who dislikes TA intensely. I don't really care where it comes from as long as it doesn't wind up in my juice
Shatner: that Tom Ford is a wicked good fragrance. Have you ever tried Eau d'Italie fragrances? Their Bois d'Ombrie, I'm fairly certain, has tobacco absolute among its base notes. Smells a lot better than it tastes
From memory (I tried them ages ago) both Maple Tobacco and Casablanca tasted very absolute-y to my palate. From what I have read, Don is a bit coy about which of his juices contain TA or NET.
Ages ago for me too, just remember I liked 555E and Honey Flue something or other, and hated Casablanca and several others did nothing for me. I wish I remember the others I didn't like, but going to try (hopefully not re-try) Virginia soon.
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I edited your post with a key caveat.
As stated in the opening post, some vendors use similar extraction methods--meaning some vendors may use elaborate chemical extraction for their tobaccos--but not extracting into an absolute; and some may, like VCV, even extract into an absolute. The distinction I tried to make is more about DIY, pre-made TA that allows for a vendor, through a technicality, to be considered a NET vendor. For the most part, as vapers that think about NETs everyday, the difference is always about whether or not one makes their extracts or not.
My post about developing photos was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but the fact remains that a vendor making their own extracts, like a photographer in a dark room, is much different than a vendor that buys a cheap extract from a DIY shop. All things being equal, a Polaroid photographer is a photographer and can take some amazing photos; but when discussing the "development" of said photo, as in the developing of tobacco extracts, one must do it themselves.
I do understand what you are trying to figure out and I can appreciate that.
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I never tasted TA in BWB, but it is damn near impossible to not taste it in Moondrop.co. I linked to Moondrop.co in my opening post because I think they are a vendor that can give a crash course in what TA tastes like.
I can say BWB honey flue and maple tobacco have a much milder (tobacco?) aroma than Casablanca. To my palate, Casablanca tastes and smells more punchy. Not necessarily in a bad way though; I vaped through the 10ml casa easily. Honey flue however has been my favorite juice since right before the BWB Honey flue drought. I can't say if that has to do with TA.
I just ordered some blue beard from VCV and am about to reorder some honey tobacco and haze from M&P thanks to sparked curiosity after reading this thread. I want to experience/re-experience these juices with the new knowledge acquired here, get a more concrete idea of what I think of TA. Thanks Mr Mann for helping to expand the curiosity/delight I get from vaping, from liquid and hardware aspects alike.
I just ordered some blue beard from VCV and am about to reorder some honey tobacco and haze from M&P thanks to sparked curiosity after reading this thread. I want to experience/re-experience these juices with the new knowledge acquired here, get a more concrete idea of what I think of TA. Thanks Mr Mann for helping to expand the curiosity/delight I get from vaping, from liquid and hardware aspects alike.
For what it's worth, I too have noticed with GR that it is ever-so-slightly oily--not like Blue Beard Tobacco from VCV, but not as uber clean as the rest of his juices. Interestingly enough, Blue Beard and GR are honey-cured tobaccos.
With my 30 mL of XPress GR, whether I have molested the bottle or not, the empty portion of the bottle has a very fine layer of liquid just above the full portion. Considering gravity, the only reason that would be is that it's slightly oily and it is clinging to the walls of the bottle.
My other bottle of GR, the profiled juice, is much clearer and tastes different (even better), so that one has been tweaked to my tastes--I love that I can get juices altered. However, when I drip from the dropper of that bottle of GR, the light yellowish-golden color of the juice never quite leaves the dropper even after the dropper should empty. I have checked with the aros, and a few other non-aros, and those droppers drip themselves clean.
Ahlusion uses CO2 extraction for their aros and also for some of their other extractions. At one point or another they have employed http://www.ahlusion.us/faq/our-liquids/97-why-are-your-liquids-cleardarkxyz.htmlWater/steam/vacuum distillation, Alcohol/ethanol/CO2/n-Butane extraction, or infusion. (<--link)
If I was a betting man, which I am not, so I wouldn't bet on my own theory, steam distillation may very well be what was used for GR and what we see is a little bit of essential oil from the tobacco. I have had 25 or so of the 29+ tobaccos Ahlusion sells and I can say that GR is an anomaly in this particular aspect (slight oil residue). That said, I love the juice.
Edit: For those that skim posts, Ahlusion is not making and or using tobacco absolute; and even if GR does use a steam distillation (which I am NOT certain of), the juice does not taste like other steam distillation juices.
I never tasted TA in BWB, but it is damn near impossible to not taste it in Moondrop.co. I linked to Moondrop.co in my opening post because I think they are a vendor that can give a crash course in what TA tastes like.
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I've been toying around with a juice I have, it's Gorilla Juice from Alien. I don't know for sure but I'd guess it's a TA flavored concoction. I've been sampling it in three different ways and comparing the results, which are of course the taste and/or smell variations. When I taste the raw juice by putting a bit on my tongue, I don't seem to be able to taste anything that rings my bell similar to tobacco. I get a sweetness and bit of a perhaps fruity tang not easy to describe. When I vape it, I get just a hint of what I would call a tobacco taste. However, when I put a bit of the raw juice on the tip of my finger and smell it, the sensation of tobacco just bowls me over, being very strong. I think now that this is something I want to experiment with other juices I have on hand, it could lead to some interesting observations.
So in another words, there is an aroma of tobacco to the liquid itself. I see where you're going. Cool.
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