Tobacco Absolute (the NET redheaded stepchild)

[Lavaca5]

My very first thought upon opening my bottle of Gold Rising was, "Wow - that smells like TA." To me, the flavor is reminiscent of TA as well - in fact, I assumed it was an Ahlusion-made TA. I enjoy that flavor, which I would describe as grassy or hay-ish rather than ashy, when it's done well, and I really like the GR. I have not noticed an oily quality of the juice in the bottle, which is dark glass, but I will inspect the tank on my RSST for the tell-tale ring when I disassemble it for cleaning.

 

[scarf-ace]

My very first thought upon opening my bottle of Gold Rising was, "Wow - that smells like TA." To me, the flavor is reminiscent of TA as well - in fact, I assumed it was an Ahlusion-made TA. I enjoy that flavor, which I would describe as grassy or hay-ish rather than ashy, when it's done well, and I really like the GR. I have not noticed an oily quality of the juice in the bottle, which is dark glass, but I will inspect the tank on my RSST for the tell-tale ring when I disassemble it for cleaning.

I just got out my bottle of GR to test this, and you are quite right Lavaca. However the TA taste is very, very muted, and smoothed over with an almost cocoa-y dark richness. In homeopathically tiny amounts like this, it makes for a good juice.

On the other hand, my Sahara Blend tastes a LOT like TA. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[RPadTV]

If this were really important, I guess I could shoot a close-up video, put it on YouTube, and embed it here, but that's waaaayyyyyy too much trouble.

Total tangent, but that isn't much more useful than comparing photos. You gentlemen would have to be using the same camera using the same settings under the same lighting conditions for a meaningful comparison.

Sorry, I'm answering another one of my "Why don't you vape on camera to show vapor production?" emails. Ha!

 

[scarf-ace]

Total tangent, but that isn't much more useful than comparing photos. You gentlemen would have to be using the same camera using the same settings under the same lighting conditions for a meaningful comparison.

Sorry, I'm answering another one of my "Why don't you vape on camera to show vapor production?" emails. Ha!

Continuing the tangent, but I'm so glad you don't do that in your videos. I find nothing more annoying and useless than watching video reviewers take big puffs and then ostentatiously exhaling and nodding with the wisdom of the Buddha. WHY?! I know what vapor looks like, thank you.
/rant

 

[Randy C]

I mentioned and linked to a couple in the post. MomandPopVaporShop.com being at the top of my list followed by Moondrop.co

Moondrop is a little heavy handed, but I think their Smith Barn Sticks and even Straight-Up liquids, after a long steep, are quite good. M&P have a really good RYO and a crazy unique flavor called Tobacco Haze that I keep on hand.

I really must have a bottle of Haze on hand at all times...

 

[shatner]

As I said in the Aroma ejuice subforum, the main difference to me is as follows, and you can agree or not as you choose:

Tobacco absolute is a consumer product. I can go to any of the better DIY shops and order "5mls each of banana flavor, caramel flavor, tobacco absolute and cotton candy flavor, please", and make my own banana, caramel, tobacco and cotton candy juices. Another person can buy the same flavorings and make juices that taste exactly the same.That 5ml bottle will have the concentrated essence of a dozen tobacco plants from who knows where.

NET is not a consumer product. It is made artisanally by the e-liquid maker solely for vaping purposes, and is only available to them (exception: My Vape Juice who sells their NET concentrates to home DIYers).

I am unfortunately one of those who dislikes TA intensely. I don't really care where it comes from as long as it doesn't wind up in my juice

Shatner: that Tom Ford is a wicked good fragrance. Have you ever tried Eau d'Italie fragrances? Their Bois d'Ombrie, I'm fairly certain, has tobacco absolute among its base notes. Smells a lot better than it tastes

That's a great analogy. I've smelled those TF fragrances. But I don't own bottles of them.

 

[Lavaca5]

I just got out my bottle of GR to test this, and you are quite right Lavaca. However the TA taste is very, very muted, and smoothed over with an almost cocoa-y dark richness. In homeopathically tiny amounts like this, it makes for a good juice.

I'm willing to bet yours has steeped longer than mine - I gave in to temptation after about a week and a half. That grassy flavor is still very much in the foreground to me, but it has become less pronounced over the 3 or 4 days I've been vaping it.

 

[shatner]

I'm willing to bet yours has steeped longer than mine - I gave in to temptation after about a week and a half. That grassy flavor is still very much in the foreground to me, but it has become less pronounced over the 3 or 4 days I've been vaping it.

Give it time. I've had my bottles of GR since December. They're nothing like fresh GR. The flavor deepens and becomes more rich.

Mr.Mann, thanks for pointing out the oilyness in VCV Blue Beard. Now I see what BillHerbst was talking about w/ GR also being oily.

 

[Mr.Mann]

As I pointed out in the opening post, an essential oil can exhibit some aspects of TA, but the two are not the same. Luckily, NOBODY here needs to speculate on anything when a vendor answers questions. With vendors like Halo or BWB (and many otehrs), you may need to speculate because they are hush about a lot of their ingredients.

 

[VaporMizer]

As I pointed out in the opening post, an essential oil can exhibit some aspects of TA, but the two are not the same...

That's true...TA has the essential oils plus other flavorings from the plant and such:

"Absolutes sometimes tend to carry a more true to nature fragrance than Essential Oils. This is because they contain many of the non-volatile constituents of the plant such as tannins and pigments that are not made available by distillation means."
www.aromatherapy-at-home.com/differencebetweenabsolutesandessential.html

So Tobacco Absolute is technically an Essence rather than Essential Oil, but does contain the essential oils.

 

[jfango]

That's true...TA has the essential oils plus other flavorings from the plant and such:

"Absolutes sometimes tend to carry a more true to nature fragrance than Essential Oils. This is because they contain many of the non-volatile constituents of the plant such as tannins and pigments that are not made available by distillation means."
Difference between absolutes and essential oils.

So Tobacco Absolute is technically an Essence rather than Essential Oil, but does contain the essential oils.

After reading through the link you provided above, I think now that I had it exactly backwards. If that info is correct, then absolutes contain MORE of the component parts of the tobacco, not less. The statement about carrying a more true to nature fragrance is interesting. So much to learn, so little time for me to do it! Gotta run, have a nice day all!

 

[shatner]

Good info VaporMizer.

 

[VaporMizer]

That was link was actually from Mr. Mann's original post, it just looks different because Tapatalk doesn't like it when I try to post links formatted that way.

 

[RPadTV]

TA Baracus should be the official spokesman for Tobacco Absolute, don't you agree?

 

[Mr.Mann]

After reading through the link you provided above, I think now that I had it exactly backwards. If that info is correct, then absolutes contain MORE of the component parts of the tobacco, not less. The statement about carrying a more true to nature fragrance is interesting. So much to learn, so little time for me to do it! Gotta run, have a nice day all!

Thanks VM for the assist!

 

[VaporMizer]

Thanks VM for the assist!

Sure! Glad to participate...TA is currently one of my favorite topics!

But I was all set for the counterargument:

The problem with TA containing "many of the non-volatile constituents of the plant such as tannins and pigments" in the case of the most widely available commercial Tobacco Absolutes is that the tobacco used doesn't seem to be fully cured, thus the green pigment.

Then I was going to say something like:

Maybe that's why TA seems to need steeping, to break down the chlorophyll? Commercial TA used with great moderation can still provide genuine tobacco aroma, and the fact that it is used in commercial cigarettes means it really has a definate place in cigarette flavored e-liquids, but it is certainly not the end-all be-all of tobacco flavoring. More like the bare minimum for any e-juice calling itself a tobacco flavor.

Which would bring me back to where I wanted to be...Roasted Tobacco Volatiles. Basically TA created using cured tobacco that is then roasted for a more robust smokey flavor. Seems like just what we're looking for, really. Any type of extract would taste better if the tobacco were roasted first IMO. The very primative water extractions would even work great...sure, it wouldn't be "pure", but for our use the impurities are actually desirable...NETs made from VG/PG maceration alone are 100% "impurities" by lab standards, and they seem to rate pretty high around here.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I made a post along time ago that said TA as an ingredient is a natural tobacco extract. My issue has never been with the ingredient itself, or whether it is or isn't a tobacco extract--it obviously is--and as stated in the original post, it can do some really special things to a juice. But, a vendor that only uses the ingredient, common TA, as their NET does not get the same consideration for being a "NET vendor" as someone who makes there own extracts. See? (Not you VM.)

I think sometimes we do too much cursory reading of posts and jump the gun with interpretation.

I also wanted to point out something else in the original post. When I said that just because a vendor is using similar techniques as one who makes an absolute, that needs to be understood. Absolutes come from concretes first! You can make a tobacco extraction from alcohol, like HHV, and you can make a concrete with alcohol and subsequent TA from that, but that does NOT mean HHV is making an absolute. HHV has made some of the more grassy and hay-like juices I've had (I love that), but while absolutes have those traits (grassy and hay notes) that doesn't mean it's time to leap to thinking HHV makes and or uses tobacco absolutes. Picking up on certain aspects of absolutes is a key to determining if you have a juice with it, but it doesn't end there. The final say should be the vendors word.

.................................

Has anyone tried ROAR's tobaccos? I have yet to try them, but they use common TA.

 

[VaporMizer]

...HHV has made some of the more grassy and hay-like juices I've had (I love that), but while absolutes have those traits (grassy and hay notes) that doesn't mean it's time to leap to thinking HHV makes and or uses tobacco absolutes. Picking up on certain aspects of absolutes is a key to determining if you have a juice with it, but it doesn't end there. The final say should be the vendors word.

Probably goes without saying, but not all of the available commercial tobacco absolutes have those grassy and hay notes, so the lack of those flavors in a tobacco flavored juice doesn't prove that TA is not in it either.

I was searching for a post, probably in the DIY forum, where it was discussed that the Bulgarian sourced TA from one supplier had those grassy notes and the Bulgarian sourced TA from TPA did not have them. The Rustica TA from Samara Botane is from Spain and has a much richer and sweeter aroma than the Bulgarian stuff.

Also, there is the TFA Tobacco Extract which has an entirely diffent look taste and smell: "a variation of Tobacco Absolute. It is an alcohol extraction process that uses a different method than the standard Tobacco Absolute. It is thick and viscous, but not quite as thick as the original, but has more of a "cigarette" type flavor and less of the "grass" note." It is brown and has more of a plain mild cured tobacco taste. Also not nearly as concentrated as TA and it's water soluble, so easier to work with. Doesn't have the sweet aroma of TA on exhale though.

 

[shatner]

Sure! Glad to participate...TA is currently one of my favorite topics!

But I was all set for the counterargument:

The problem with TA containing "many of the non-volatile constituents of the plant such as tannins and pigments" in the case of the most widely available commercial Tobacco Absolutes is that the tobacco used doesn't seem to be fully cured, thus the green pigment.

Then I was going to say something like:

Maybe that's why TA seems to need steeping, to break down the chlorophyll? Commercial TA used with great moderation can still provide genuine tobacco aroma, and the fact that it is used in commercial cigarettes means it really has a definate place in cigarette flavored e-liquids, but it is certainly not the end-all be-all of tobacco flavoring. More like the bare minimum for any e-juice calling itself a tobacco flavor.

Which would bring me back to where I wanted to be...Roasted Tobacco Volatiles. Basically TA created using cured tobacco that is then roasted for a more robust smokey flavor. Seems like just what we're looking for, really. Any type of extract would taste better if the tobacco were roasted first IMO. The very primative water extractions would even work great...sure, it wouldn't be "pure", but for our use the impurities are actually desirable...NETs made from VG/PG maceration alone are 100% "impurities" by lab standards, and they seem to rate pretty high around here.

The leeching of Chlorophyll makes since. You do that with other smoking consumables.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Also, there is the TFA Tobacco Extract which has an entirely different look taste and smell: "a variation of Tobacco Absolute. It is an alcohol extraction process that uses a different method than the standard Tobacco Absolute. It is thick and viscous, but not quite as thick as the original, but has more of a "cigarette" type flavor and less of the "grass" note." It is brown and has more of a plain mild cured tobacco taste. Also not nearly as concentrated as TA and it's water soluble, so easier to work with. Doesn't have the sweet aroma of TA on exhale though.

That's TE, tobacco extract, if I am not mistaking.