Told to stop having a vape

[generic mutant]

Lemme get this straight: You vape in shops without asking. Then when they ask you to stop, you keep doing it.

This is because you don't want people to get it into their heads that banning vaping would be a good thing.

---

I think I'm done here.

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"
-Jonathan Swift.

 

[metrabolic]

So let's say, there were a bunch of people who were up in arms about vaping looking like things you could put drugs in and that everyone who's using these devices could have drugs in them. (I think these articles are crap, but guess what some people believe everything they read) Now let's have people wondering around the store openly vaping, someone could assume that you are now using drug in the store, and since this is the world we live in. This person freaks out. Then this person has the chance to vote on legislation that could take your right away, I'm pretty sure that person is going to be the first person to vote yes to ban it. Not saying it's right, but that's just how I see it.

 

[iBigChill]

I treat both ignorant and intelligent people with courtesy and respect. I have to look at myself in the mirror every morning and like who I see reflecting back at me.

I will oblige if an establishment or person asks me to stop vaping near them or in their presence. I don't regard that as offensive. They have the right to do so. Nobody likes the "power tripping sales associate that just over extended their authority". Society hates these ....ers. I just shrug it off and pay no mind unless it is something important. Why? Because that person sucks and they are not worth the time for me to deal with them.

I don't live and die by principle. Sometimes you need to stand up for who you are, sometimes it just isn't worth the fuss for me to go to war over a $10 purchase of a dark chocolate bar, Mexican Coke, and Kombucha Tea. I would prefer to just let Karma deal with the jackass in her own time. Chappelle Show had a skit called "When Keeping it Real Goes Wrong." I think some of the people on this thread should watch this.

It's a free country. They (non-vapers) have their rights, I have my rights. Who is to say that their rights supersede mine? Who is to say that my rights supersede theirs? A smile can defuse almost any situation, at least in my experience.

 

[Jman8]

Because vaping in our own home or car isn't considered 'antisocial.' We didn't smoke in our own home/car because it made our own environment stink.

Agreed, though I'm thinking smokers did at one point smoke in own homes and cars and didn't stop simply because it stank. When I quit cold turkey, I allowed smoking in designated areas of my home. I realized it stunk, but also realized it was a matter of courtesy and, how you say, social norms. As I still smoke (moderately), I'll do it in my car. I also know (as a moderate smoker) if I don't smoke in the car for about a week, almost no smell of second hand smoke. A month later, even less. A year later, and you wouldn't even be able to tell that a smoker was ever in that car. Likely far less than a year, but trying to be conservative here.

My point is only that we have found an incredibly easy (for most) alternative to smoking. The general public needs to be broken in gently imo. Of course ymmv.

In my neck of the woods, it couldn't be any more gradual, while also still occurring.

When I review FDA position on eCigs, I do see logic in what they are saying, on the surface. Which is take everything after 2007 off the shelves. Let's do a complete reset. Let's study this stuff thoroughly for 5 to 10 years. Let's then determine what is appropriate use for this and make appropriate public policy at that point.

Now, is there a vaper amongst us that agrees with that take on things? For that would be reasonable to, I would think, vast majority of non vapers. And vapers who hem and haw on that are likely going to come across to non-vapers as addicts who need their fix and don't understand the accommodation that general public is willing to make. One that is gradual, and one that stands a chance a decade from now going back to this current era where seemingly anything goes. Might not turn out that way, but if being truly understanding, and truly respectful to the larger non-vaping community, this would be the rational position for vaping community to take.

As I know I can go cold turkey, I'd probably do okay on that path. Curious why rest of vaping community would disagree if this is foremost about respect to the non-vaping world?

 

[jpargana]

So let's say, there were a bunch of people who were up in arms about vaping looking like things you could put drugs in and that everyone who's using these devices could have drugs in them. (I think these articles are crap, but guess what some people believe everything they read) Now let's have people wondering around the store openly vaping, someone could assume that you are now using drug in the store, and since this is the world we live in. This person freaks out. Then this person has the chance to vote on legislation that could take your right away, I'm pretty sure that person is going to be the first person to vote yes to ban it. Not saying it's right, but that's just how I see it.

Tobacco cigarettes can also be used to smoke 'other stuff' along with the tobacco... AFAIK, that was not the concern behind tobacco bans...! I remember being vilified as a SMOKER... but never as a 'potential' addict...

 

[Jman8]

Lemme get this straight: You vape in shops without asking. Then when they ask you to stop, you keep doing it.

Not quite. I ask about 80% of the time. I explained previously why I don't ask the other 20% of the time. If asked to stop, I would stop. I don't believe I've ever been asked to stop. If place has said no, and place is large enough, I will vape in area where I'm not hiding it, but where I'm essentially not around a lot of people.

This is because you don't want people to get it into their heads that banning vaping would be a good thing.

I don't vape in crowded places because of a) I'm sometimes a social wimp and b) usually I'm not social wimp and am fairly cheerful in public and not feeling a desire to vape, nor do really anything other than go about my business and get out of the crowded place.

As I've said elsewhere, if I saw someone vaping in a crowded place (i.e. mall), I feel very unlikely to congregate with such a person and vape. If someone I was with was openly vaping, and chain vaping, I would likely not chain vape, even while I may openly vape.

If I was in place that welcomed vaping, but it was crowded, I would likely experience the novelty of vaping in that place, and pretty sure novelty would wear off after a few puffs and I'd either not vape and hang around awhile longer or leave to get out of the crowded place. I don't hate crowds, but prefer open spaces. Open spaces are very conducive to vaping, indoors or outdoors.

 

[Orb Skewer]

The OP should have shouted *PERVERT* at the top of his voice.

 

[WillyZee]

I've noticed there are two types of vapers ... those that are selfish and think it is their god given right to vape anywhere because it is not smoking ... and those who have the common decency to not vape in places like grocery stores and public libraries.

Don't get me wrong ... I myself enjoy having a pint of beer and a vape in a pub where management does not mind ... however, some people will never have respect for the people around them and feel it should be their right to vape anywhere anytime.

thank goodness, the selfish vaper is rare and everyone else has respect and the self control to wait until they are finished shopping to go outside to vape

 

[Myrany]

One, but I only go to 2 grocery stores. The one that doesn't allow it, based on ignorance in conversation I had with manager, is one I now go to rarely. Was there yesterday and will probably go there again. Also will likely vape in the one that said no, cause store is large enough that when I'm in canned / packaged food section and no one is around, I see it as non-issue. Fairly certain I'll never be caught should I choose to vape there. Openly.

This is where I take issue with how you handle things and why I think I find the attitude you put forth in quite a few of your posts bothers me. In the store that does not permit vaping, You have had a conversation as to why. You didn't like their answer so you decide that you will vape anyways because you can. It flagrant disrespect.

I have far more respect for people who are told no and simply choose not to patronize that business again.

It is their store and their rules. I don't look at vaping any different from the no shoes no service rules. If I do not like the rules I do not give them my money and I encourage others I know not to give them money either.

As for vaping in my car or home vs smoking in them. I think you would be surprised how many of us DID smoke in our cars and homes. SO not a blanket good argument to use there.

No I do not think we should hide our vaping but I also do not believe we should be jerks and break set rules just because we need to be seen or because we can get away with it either.

 

[holy_handgrenade]

Threads like these make me angry; you have one group that thinks because there's no law, that means everything goes; then you have others that want to treat it like an analog; both are kinda wrong but since we only have one thing to look on, let's go ahead and examine analogs:

I'm 35 years old and have been vaping since I was 17, switched to vaping this year; that's 17 years of actual smoking experience; around the country I might add. My mother and grandmother were smokers as well. Even when smoking was socially acceptable, there were places it just wasnt allowed; most business offices, government offices, retail establishments, grocery stores, dept stores, etc. They didnt ban it because (at the time they didnt fully aknowlege) of harm; they disallowed it because it was their right to do so; Where was smoking allowed? Bowling alleys, bars, strip clubs, restraunts, and *some* fast food restraunts. Socal gathering/hangout places.

Assuming things go the same way; the best possible result is that vaping will still be banned from those places where it was unacceptable to smoke when smoking was more widely accepted. That basically restricts things to restraunts, bars, and bowling alleys and the likes. That doesnt mean you can puff up while in Walmart or waiting in line at the grocery store. Or worse; in line at McDonald's.

Funny enough; even back then, I dont think I can remember ever seeing a no smoking sign at any of the places it wasnt accepted to smoke at.

Point is; there's a time and place; use some foresight and think about what it is that you're doing. It affects all of us, not just your little stealth vape.

 

[zoiDman]

Wouldn't it be Cool if vaping Wasn't so Addictive that a person could go 30 or 40 minutes without Having to take a Hit Inside a Store when Shopping.

Kinda like they way Analogs were.

 

[bcalvanese]

I remember when people could smoke anywhere.

Department stores, grocery stores, malls, airplanes, hospitals, work, and everywhere else.

Most people did smoke, and cigarettes were 45 cents a pack when I started smoking (yup, I'm an old guy).

Now a days most people don't smoke, and smoking is not allowed in most places. It's a different world we live in now.

Because most people don't smoke, it would be fair to assume that most people don't know what vaping is, and most people who see someone vaping in a place where smoking is not allowed are going to have negative thoughts about it, and confrontations are going to happen.

How we react to these confrontations is what is going to determine what light we are shed into. We can put ourselves in a good light or a bad light, but we must realize that each one of us contribute to that total light, and the more threads I read like this, the more I realize that we are headed for a bad light.

Some people walk around in this world thinking they can vape anywhere they want, and because there are no regulations (yet) saying they can't, they just keep doing it anyway. This also makes me wonder how rude these people are in other area's of their lives.

If this was me, I would have let the kids go with the wife, go outside to the smoking area (and I know there would probably be like 5 other dudes out there smoking waiting for their wives), and probably shed a posative light in two ways...
1. Not being rude by vaping in the store, sneaking it like a school kid in the bathroom (and in front of your own kids yet... what were you thinking?)
2. probably turning a couple of smokers on to vaping, and maybe helping someone quit smoking.

The OP chose the wrong way by doing it in the first place. And right in front of his kids yet (what do you think you are teaching them?), and then... wants to post this thread, and complain to us about it.

The one good thing about this thread is that confrontation makes people think, and hopefully some people will change their way of thinking about these types of situations, and want to shed their little peice of the light in a good way.

 

[Jman8]

I've noticed there are two types of vapers ... those that are selfish and think it is their god given right to vape anywhere because it is not smoking ... and those who have the common decency to not vape in places like grocery stores and public libraries.

Don't get me wrong ... I myself enjoy having a pint of beer and a vape in a pub where management does not mind ... however, some people will never have respect for the people around them and feel it should be their right to vape anywhere anytime.

thank goodness, the selfish vaper is rare and everyone else has respect and the self control to wait until they are finished shopping to go outside to vape

This is rather insulting.

The selfish vaper and the respectful vaper is how you spin it?

There's other ways to spin this and other types of vapers, i.e. those that need nic, and those that don't. Those that support bans and regulations, and those that enjoy freedom. Those that support the vaping community and those that shame vapers. See... isn't spin fun?

 

[Jman8]

This is where I take issue with how you handle things and why I think I find the attitude you put forth in quite a few of your posts bothers me. In the store that does not permit vaping, You have had a conversation as to why. You didn't like their answer so you decide that you will vape anyways because you can. It flagrant disrespect.

Flagrant disrespect would be, you told me no, but here I am right in front of you disobeying your wishes.
My version of 'disrespect' is I will disobey what you are saying because the conversation we had on this was entirely one sided and you shut down further communication. I asked nicely, you said no rudely. Now, I know where you stand, and you won't ever catch me in your store, so, as you said, we don't need to discuss this further. You'll still get my business and the thing you are ignorant on, you will remain that way cause I'm certain you will not catch me vaping in your store.

I have far more respect for people who are told no and simply choose not to patronize that business again.

I do not share your understanding of the term respect given the way you are choosing to frame the discussion.

It is their store and their rules. I don't look at vaping any different from the no shoes no service rules. If I do not like the rules I do not give them my money and I encourage others I know not to give them money either.

If their rules are open to discussion or perceived as reasonable, I will likely follow them. If not, then like certain civil disobedient people before me, I will practice non-violence, and tempt fate while I show up disobeying certain, unreasonable rules.

With the "their rules" discussion and not having any desire to fight it, then we could say it is FDA's call to set rules on vaping, and vapers need to just suck it up and accept whatever they decide. Perhaps you fully agree with that line of thought. I, and many other vapers, don't and see their rules that have so far been floated out there based on ignorance and deception. This is feeding certain people's rationale to ban vaping on their premises. Heck, I would say it is feeding all current bans in all places I'm aware of bans occurring.

As for vaping in my car or home vs smoking in them. I think you would be surprised how many of us DID smoke in our cars and homes. SO not a blanket good argument to use there.

Part of that argument was, if it is/was okay to smoke there and now you vape there, then it ought to be okay if a smoker smokes there, with the logic that is in place. And if not, then why not?

No I do not think we should hide our vaping but I also do not believe we should be jerks and break set rules just because we need to be seen or because we can get away with it either.

Again, I am respectful in my disobedience and have explained this in fairly lengthy detail. Am glad to explain it more. I continue to advocate for vape everywhere, and be respectful in doing so. Apparently for you, that is not possible if the answer is no you cannot vape. So, if / when society goes the way of banning vaping in all places (includes outdoor public places) except for own home, I'm thinking you'll be very okay with this. Plus you may advocate that no one be a disrespectful jerk and counter what is the wishes of anti-vapers for society. If I am incorrect on this, I'm sure you'll let me know.

 

[WillyZee]

This is rather insulting.

The selfish vaper and the respectful vaper is how you spin it?

There's other ways to spin this and other types of vapers, i.e. those that need nic, and those that don't. Those that support bans and regulations, and those that enjoy freedom. Those that support the vaping community and those that shame vapers. See... isn't spin fun?

lets call it, the arrogant vaper vs the respectful vaper then ... bottom line is ... there is not one vaper in the world who cannot wait until the long checkout line at the grocery store is finished ... and then head outside to vape.

vaping in grocery stores is never going to be allowed ... and those that do vape (stealth or cloud chase), should learn to respect the people that work and shop there ... parents don't want to explain to their kids while doing their weekend shopping ... that guy is only vaping and not smoking.

Some people will never grasp onto my train of thought either ... like I said though, they are rare.

 

[Myrany]

With the "their rules" discussion and not having any desire to fight it, then we could say it is FDA's call to set rules on vaping, and vapers need to just suck it up and accept whatever they decide. Perhaps you fully agree with that line of thought.[/COLOR] I, and many other vapers, don't and see their rules that have so far been floated out there based on ignorance and deception. This is feeding certain people's rationale to ban vapingon their premises. Heck, I would say it is feeding all current bans in all places I'm aware of bans occurring.

Personally I think your attempt here to paint me as someone who thinks the bans are ok is blatantly disrespectful.

There is a process and procedure in place in our country for how to dispute what the FDA is trying to do. I use it and do my share. Suggesting in a backhanded way that I intend to lie down and take is insulting.

Just because I do not agree with your methods does not mean I do nothing.

At this point I am done so go ahead and take your expected and normal potshot knowing I am not going to continue the argument with you. As far as I am concerned you proved my point with your post quoted here.

 

[zoiDman]

... bottom line is ... there is not one vaper in the world who cannot wait until the long checkout line at the grocery store is finished ... and then head outside to vape.

...

I dunno.

I've been around the ECF for a Long Time. And I have read many Posts where it Doesn't seem like Some people can go that long Without Taking a Hit.

 

[Jman8]

Because most people don't smoke, it would be fair to assume that most people don't know what vaping is, and most people who see someone vaping in a place where smoking is not allowed are going to have negative thoughts about it, and confrontations are going to happen.

In all of my experiences of vaping in public, I have not once experienced a confrontation from fellow patron. Again, I openly vape. From what constitutes 'real stealth vaping,' I am yet to do that. But I have maybe 5 times (out of like 50+ times) openly vaped in public gathering where many people were present and I was in middle of some sort of group. IOW, I vape when no one is around which in my experience (my entire life) is fairly frequent in many public places. Even in places that are crazy busy, there are portions of the premises that I can guess going in are likely to have little to no traffic. All those sorts of places are ones I consider ripe for vaping. Even in a place that has said 'yes you can vape here,' I'd rather vape in the place that has less people around.

The confrontations I have experienced are actually very few, and only one was longer than 15 seconds. All of these were with staff/managers of the premises. Just like OP's confrontation was short, mine are too. If someone is going to say no to vaping, it is usually very obvious why they are saying no. In the one time it was longer than 15 seconds, I hadn't even vaped in the store at that point and just asked. Then because I had talked with the manager previously (several times), I decided to ask why. About 20 seconds later, it was 'because I said so' and him walking away (discussion over). So, while in the store that day, I didn't vape. I've since been back, and have vaped. Sparingly, but also unknowingly to this manager and I'm fairly certain to anyone else present in the store. I would vape again in this store, because I am certain they wouldn't find out, but I would do so sparingly and with idea that no one is near me.

How we react to these confrontations is what is going to determine what light we are shed into. We can put ourselves in a good light or a bad light, but we must realize that each one of us contribute to that total light, and the more threads I read like this, the more I realize that we are headed for a bad light.

I'm not certain that CASAA members appreciate what I'm saying in this thread, nor that they agree with 'light' I am shedding on this discussion, but I feel somewhat confident that they don't think I'm off base with at least some of what I am getting across. Bans are not the result of allegedly bad vapers.

- Smoking has been vilified to point where it is one of the most shameful things you can do in society, even in your own house.
- Smoking bans have been justified based on somewhat deceptive (if not outright deceptive) tactics by anti-smokers.
- Vaping mimics smoking, but is different enough that while it does look like smoking a little bit, it is clearly not smoking, nor does it carry with it the same odor, the same ability to linger, the same health concerns. All of these are far less of an issue with vaping.
- Anti smokers haven't disappeared, even while they are clearly winning, arguably have won, the major battles against smoking.
- Their new goal is found in FSPTCA which won't eliminate smoking but provides even greater controls to deal with the perceived problem
- As FSPTCA controls all forms of tobacco, and as eCigs appear to mimic smoking, then the anti faction needs eCigs to fall in that act.
- That Act and the lead up to that, coupled with lots and lots of deceptive propaganda (that's been going on for 20+ years) is what are driving bans everywhere you hear of a ban occurring.
- Their position is that vaping doesn't help you quit smoking. It entices children into a lifelong habit of nicotine, especially via flavors being offered. No one anywhere knows exactly what is in eCigs, nor does anyone know what eCigs actually do to a human body. It does look like smoking, and smoking is horrible, dangerous and deserving of being shamed. If you are helping shame smokers, especially when they dare do their filthy disgusting habit in public (anywhere) then you are with us, the anti-smoking faction. We would appreciate if you would do the same with the filthy disgusting vapers as well. They need to be shamed before that trend gets too far. Shaming is good. It is righteous. Any example of them in public, anywhere, is to be treated as a poor example of human behavior, for they are nicotine addicts who are in denial about their own addiction. They are disrespectful and selfish. So much so that they don't care if they harm people around them. Even kids. Won't anyone think of the children?

 

[Jman8]

lets call it, the arrogant vaper vs the respectful vaper then ... bottom line is ... there is not one vaper in the world who cannot wait until the long checkout line at the grocery store is finished ... and then head outside to vape.

vaping in grocery stores is never going to be allowed ... and those that do vape (stealth or cloud chase), should learn to respect the people that work and shop there ... parents don't want to explain to their kids while doing their weekend shopping ... that guy is only vaping and not smoking.

Some people will never grasp onto my train of thought either ... like I said though, they are rare.

As stated earlier, I have been given the okay to vape in grocery store that I now frequent. To say it is never going to be allowed is not accurate in my experience.

I can wait and not vape in all the places that I vape, which includes own premises. I recall going cold turkey for 8.5 years of my life. I believe everyone can go cold turkey, even while there are some reading this that will say they tried and didn't work for them. I still believe they can. The antis are sure they can and are sure that it must be tried over and over rather than sticking to vaping because it is some hobby you enjoy or whatever the justification is for continuing to vape once you've gotten over hurdle of craving nicotine from cigarettes.

So, for many vapers, and in my estimation the vast majority, it is something that is enjoyed but not really necessary after a certain point. I would estimate that to be around 90 days of vaping without a log. I'm sure we won't all agree on what that point is, nor if such a point even exists for sure. But fact is you do not need nicotine to survive. You may enjoy it, but there are persons who see that enjoyment as highly detrimental to civilized society.

And with that said, to say that those who do vape in public should learn to respect the people that work and shop in public, is presuming that those who enjoy vaping (in public) are in most cases disrespectful. Not, they are setting an example to all persons what respectful behavior looks like while vaping, but just the idea of vaping around other people is inherently disrespectful.

And so we arrive at a point within vaping community that is essentially an impasse. Because again, there has been nothing said in this discussion that changes my stance on 'vape everywhere' nor do I think it will have influence on where and how I choose to vape when I am not vaping in my own residence. Yet, those that (strongly) disagree with my position choose to see me as part of the problem either with vaping being allowed in society or with society in general. And myself, and what I understand to be the position of many members in CASAA, is that not vaping in public, openly, respectfully, is paving the road to de-normalizing vaping and handing the shaming aspect that will soon surely follow to the anti-crowd, to help convince non-vapers that this too is a disgusting, dirty habit that only addicts in denial would try to defend.

 

[Jman8]

Personally I think your attempt here to paint me as someone who thinks the bans are ok is blatantly disrespectful.

I said: With the "their rules" discussion and not having any desire to fight it, then we could say it is FDA's call to set rules on vaping, and vapers need to just suck it up and accept whatever they decide. Perhaps you fully agree with that line of thought.

The perhaps part left room for you to let me know otherwise. That you chose to take offense and paint me as blatantly disrespectful is unfounded. You have in previous posts used same tactics to make your points, such as saying, "I have far more respect for people who are told no and simply choose not to patronize that business again." Not "perhaps I have far more respect" but stated a bit more emphatically.

There is a process and procedure in place in our country for how to dispute what the FDA is trying to do. I use it and do my share. Suggesting in a backhanded way that I intend to lie down and take is insulting.

Just because I do not agree with your methods does not mean I do nothing.

Let me know where you believe I said, "You do nothing" for the cause.

To me, it isn't simply that you disagree with my methods, but that you are far more respectful while I am blatantly disrespectful with my methods. I can quote where this has been said. Disagreement is one thing, but you, and others have spun it, several times as the person that openly vapes in public, with respect, is inherently disrespectful. And/or selfish. And/or hurting the cause for all other vapers.