Took my son to the Zoo today with my PV and...

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WarHawk-AVG

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I understand where you're going here, but the men who say things like this are vastly known for their GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS and waxing philosopohical is a by product of their direct experience, in other words, they hold their convictions at such a deep level that they have risked much to do so.

See, I haven't devoted my entire life to a great cause, made the kind of great sacrafices to do so........so using these words is always sort of laughable to me....people sitting behind keyboards proclaiming such lofty things.

Eldredge Cleaver had to teach his wife and children to leap into the bathtub and under tables and couches, for when their home was fired on by bullets, can you imagine having to show your children these things? He gave his life because he was eventually killed for what he devoted his life to: registering people of color to simply.........vote.

So, explain to me to what extent YOU are willing to follow up on those words you just quoted. What sacrafices will you make, how much inconvenience and suffering are you willing to endure for your convictions? Will you sleep in the streets, will you give your life? HOw aobut your children's life?

I'm not dissing you War, but given the extent of the sacrafices that *great men* have made, I am very hesitant to take their words and put them into my own mouth, at least, not quickly, unless I know i can live up to them. Otherwise, they are just words and phrases. Out of context.

Hope you know what I mean.

I mean, to be perfectly honest, I don't see myself taking up arms to vape,
It's all good man...I am a peaceful person...someone comes up to me and says "hey buddy, you can't smoke here" I will politely "educate" them on vaping and try to win hearts and minds, or if I can't..I will take my vaping elsewhere, but if someone walks up to me, "pokes me in the chest, and says "Hey **insert bad word here** you can't *insert another bad word here** I might snap his finger off and shove it up his nose

Don't let my peacefulness be a disguise for my weakness or my ability or propensity to return vitriol with the same in kind

I believe as an exmarine this man has already proved his willingness to sacrifice and should not be questioned about his willingness to suffer for his convictions
former...you should know better ;)

and my service has NOTHING to do with how I feel about vaping...or the ignorance of some people towards it

Gandhi said those things while most assume Gandhi was all for change threw peaceful civil disobedience in his writings he advocated the need for violence. Not that the tyranny he faced has any comparison to our vaping situation;-)
tyranny is tyranny...
See sig below :)
 
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Sa Da Tay

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I understand where you're going here, but the men who say things like this are vastly known for their GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS and waxing philosopohical is a by product of their direct experience, in other words, they hold their convictions at such a deep level that they have risked much to do so.

See, I haven't devoted my entire life to a great cause, made the kind of great sacrafices to do so........so using these words is always sort of laughable to me....people sitting behind keyboards proclaiming such lofty things.

Eldredge Cleaver had to teach his wife and children to leap into the bathtub and under tables and couches, for when their home was fired on by bullets, can you imagine having to show your children these things? He gave his life because he was eventually killed for what he devoted his life to: registering people of color to simply.........vote.

So, explain to me to what extent YOU are willing to follow up on those words you just quoted. What sacrafices will you make, how much inconvenience and suffering are you willing to endure for your convictions? Will you sleep in the streets, will you give your life? HOw aobut your children's life?

Otherwise, it just sounds like a bunch of words out of context, sorry.

That's the thing about these threads and members asserting their rights, comparing themselves to historically (genuinely) oppressed peoples. Vapers are arriving at the table with a huge social disadvantage: tobacco use has become anathema, stigmatic. The average person doesn't know or care about vaping and will not bat a nicotine-free eyelash when anti legislation gets passed. They see one perceived "nutjob smoker" go on a rampage about "rights" and NAZIS and ANTZ etc etc ad nauseam....they go from completely unaware/uninterested to actively antagonistic.

Vaping isn't a race, sex, orientation, age, religious, political or disability status. 30 years from now people aren't going to be talking about the "persecution" of vaping in 2013 as some historical embarrassment because it was morally wrong. The only way we're going to get there is with intelligent, organized advocacy instead of making John Public's first experience of vaping a wound-up, angry vaper daring people to knock his "rights" off his sleeve. You all can stick to your dogmatic values and watch as you peeve off more and more people, or you can join the real world and inject some practicality into your venom.
 

SissySpike

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To me Vaping is just one more of many injustices yes its insignificant but it seems to raise more passion than all of the very serious problems we have going on. I have never hid the fact that I hope people see how things work with vaping then they can have there eyes opened to the bigger picture.
 

Racehorse

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That's the thing about these threads and members asserting their rights, comparing themselves to historically (genuinely) oppressed peoples.

And that is why I"m sure WarHawk {graciously} did not feel insulted by what I said, as he is able to distinguish the magnitude of what he fought for and how I respect him, but making the world safe for vaping is hardly on the same plane.

Vaping isn't a race, sex, orientation, age, religious, political or disability status. 30 years from now people aren't going to be talking about the "persecution" of vaping in 2013 as some historical embarrassment because it was morally wrong.

I think hammer hit nail here. Thank you for being so eloquent.

Vaping rights is more like when they finally established handicapped parking spaces for the elderly and disabled.....except probably way less important, actually, since being handicapped affects a much greater segment of the society.

It's more about local ordinances, laws and such and not something that you take to The World Summit of Developed Nations.

Of COURSE the subject raises more passion here, on a vaping specific forum dedicated to this subject. It's not like we are here trying to figure out what to do with Haiti.
 

WarHawk-AVG

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My daddy taught me to pick my battles...this is one of the battles I choose to fight

Civil rights are civil rights...whether a civilian is trying to take them or a government...

I'm not comparing myself to any of those historical figures...far from it

But I do know you don't win "wars" without fighting a bunch of small battles

Oh and I belong to this
grumpy_vets_1st_civ_div_here_i_come_tee-r62650da8706446cda66b15a4e58aa3ea_804g1_512.jpg

I just have to order mine in XL :/
 

Baldr

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Until there is way more research out that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that vaping is safe and poses absolutely ZERO danger (even to a newborn) then don't expect that people are gonna want to stand next to you while you're "blowing vapor out of your mouth"......they don't know what it is, and you can't blame them.

Since you consider a complete 100% zero danger level to be the only possibility, I suppose you never get into an automobile?

You have zero evidence that there is any danger in vaping - much less in second hand vaping. But you are holding vaping to a standard that nothing else in the world can match.
 

tearose50

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Although I don't disagree in any way, the question is ..

"If the Public is generally uninformed on PV use, how can one using a PV in a designated Non-Smoking area / prohibited Smoking Area avoid the appearance of breaking that prohibition by blowing out what appears to be smoke .. ?? And, if you are using a cig-a-like, does that not even compound the issue further .. ?? "

The point I keep trying to make here is simple .. we look like smokers .. !!


Maybe to some, but not all.

For starters, don't use a white cig-alike. Don't try to look like those other people......and we don't.

The awareness of e-cigs has increased considerably since I've been a vaper. Most everyone has at least heard of it these days. I've certainly run into people who see my vape and want to know more-----for their daughter, friend or just plain want to see one in person. And, for quite some time now I've been getting a "thumbs up" in very unexpected locations --- like the drive through window at a Fast Food place, or at a stop light.

And, part of this is because for the most part we have not been obnoxious with our vaping nor hidden in closets or only vaping in the middle of the outdoor designated smoking spots. I've asked and been able to vape quite openly in many non-smoking areas. The media called TV and advertising has helped make people aware of this alternative, too. Sure, most know very little about it, but it is far from unknown.

There are plenty of stealthy methods too. Using all PG. Using unflavored. Holding in longer. Exhaling into coffee cups. I prefer to not be paranoid and use my personal judgment about when and where I will vape and when I feel it appropriate to get permission, or not.
 

SissySpike

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Since you consider a complete 100% zero danger level to be the only possibility, I suppose you never get into an automobile?

You have zero evidence that there is any danger in vaping - much less in second hand vaping. But you are holding vaping to a standard that nothing else in the world can match.

I think we know what she means we do have study's showing exhaled vapor dose not contain enough nic to affect others but it would be nice if we had something recognized in a more official way.
 

jp_cfc09

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you guys have it bad where your from, I dont think ive ever met anyone who doesnt know slightly what a ecig is really bar a few older people who just too old too care about these things. they would give a strange look but thats all, have told a few what it is etc and leave with them telling its great your off smokes and good luck. im decent in that I wont vape near food and that goes for supermarkets but the centre (mall for usa folk) is fine just not near the fresh food. also not near kids to show respect or peoples faces as I wouldnt like it done on my kids or rudely in my face. must be the different culture and also the uk is quite small but its very naive and short minded to think a pv is a cigarette when it looks nothing like one, even the look a like ones are like something from a joke shop, clearly not real. dont know about anyone else but if I seen something I didnt quite know what it was but looked like smokeing or anything for that matter, id ask before I decided to inform people its not allowed which most decent people would. disrespectful people who dont wouldnt get my respect back and should be ignored or handed a leaflet informing them and told to read it and get on there bike.

I think thats your best answer really, maybe someone should make a sample people can download and print off. print off two copys of a leaflet informing about ecigs, such as there use and how they arnt smokeing and arnt illegal to use in smokeing areas. bring them with your pv in there case or where you store it and once your comforted about useing your pv by a raging balloon just hand it to them and say read this before you look like a fool mate and ignore them and walk on. anyone else agree with me as it informs the uninformed naive people and still makes vapers look good and the bigger person in the end with more understanding that tit for tat doesnt solve much.
 

Racehorse

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Since you consider a complete 100% zero danger level to be the only possibility, I suppose you never get into an automobile?

You have zero evidence that there is any danger in vaping - much less in second hand vaping. But you are holding vaping to a standard that nothing else in the world can match.

You're right, I did get a bit hyperbolic, sort of like so much else in this topic. :)

I agree with Warhawk too that wars are fought in little battles.

Was just feeling that some of the huffing and puffing in theads of this sort get a little out of hand. I have to admit, vaping is *not* one of my biggest causes, but to each their own, fight the good fight but do it classy.
 

Racehorse

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Race -- did you cut down on your nic? :ohmy:

No, but I'm about to. I am not willing to sacrafice the $$ I spent on juice so I am diluting it with pure VG to lower the nic...... and then adding some DIY flavoring to kinda make "frankenjuice" that I like.

I am just not really enjoying vaping like I did 6 months ago, it's become more of a chore than a delight. Tired of doodling with it, packing stuff to leave house, etc.

My projected quit date is December, and if I miss that, then my birthday in March. Wish me luck!
 
I haven't had occasion to have such an encounter yet. But since I'm usually good at coming up with responses after they do any good, I've given it some thought.

If the person actually assaulted me or looked like they might be prepared to do so, then I probably wouldn't use the following. But if the person in question is just a self-righteous busybody, then I plan to say: "Thank you. I'm not smoking. It's actually an inhaler. Here, let me show you a copy of the prescription [reaching into my pocket]."

Here's my rationale. First of all, the first words out of my mouth are "thank you." They expect to be thanked for their selfless service to society. They think they are doing good. They don't expect the thank you to come from me, but they believe their actions warrant thanks. So I give it to them, which immediately catches them off guard.

Next, I tell them that it's an inhaler, which is perfectly truthful. I was, indeed, inhaling from in only seconds ago, and he even saw me, so it's undeniably true.

Then, I make a request. I ask him to "let me" show him a copy of the prescription. I'm not exactly being untruthful. I never said that there was, indeed, a prescription. I simply ask his permission to show it to him. Suddenly, I have him in a very awkward position. I seem somewhat naive, and I also am doing my best to comply with his assertion of authority. It looks to him that I think he is some sort of undercover cop, or at the very least, an employee of the place I am visiting. In other words, he ought to realize that if he continues, and indeed starts reading the prescription, he is now in the precarious position of impersonating some kind of authority figure. One minute ago, he was just another zoo patron. Now, he's impersonating a zookeeper, and also standing around reading other people's confidential medical data, under the guise of his impersonated position. At the same time, he's apparently depriving me of some sort of critical medication while he stands there making his own review of my medical data.

At this point, I assume that he will tell me that he doesn't need to see the prescription. He'll probably think twice before he accosts some other person using some unfamiliar device.

If he doesn't react this way, then I need to up the ante somewhat. I reach into one pocket, and don't find the prescription. I check my other pocket and don't find it. So I announce that I must have left the prescription at home, in the car, etc. Because I'm such a law abiding person, I immediately offer to provide it to him immediately. Depending on the exact setting, I might point in the direction of the zoo office, and offer to go home and get it. I would address him personally, and tell him that I could give it to him at his office, again, pointing in the direction of the headquarters of the location.

At this point, he realizes that he's not going to actually see the prescription, even if his zealotry is such that he would like to personally review it. Instead, he realizes that I'm going to show up at the zoo office asking for him. But he also realizes that if he continues, he's really in a position where he's impersonating someone else.

I suspect that it this point, even the most extreme zealot is going to sheepishly tell me that they don't need to see the prescription. At the very least, they have to admit that they don't have any kind of official standing. If he doesn't sheepishly go away, I might start looking around for a cop or some employee of the venue, and ask them, "does this gentleman work here?" When they tell me he doesn't, I might then point out that he came up to me demanding to see copies of some of my medical records.

Of course, this won't work quite as well in some situations. First of all, if vaping actually is prohibited, then it could backfire. Also, if the person really did have authority, then it could also backfire. Also, it wouldn't work very well with a cigalike.

But I'm actually kind of looking forward to this encounter. :)
 

TreVader

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The idea that anyone would come up to anyone and tell them to not do something based on their own inference about what the rules are is insane. If I saw somebody smoking ANYTHING..illegal, whatever I would not GO UP TO THEM and tell them to stop. If it's an issue notify somebody else. I'm not a jerk for not responding, I'm just doing what everyone else SHOULD do in that situation: ignore the request.
 
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gilpdawg

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I am really getting concerned by the number of people that I am seeing that are ignoring no smoking signs and getting militant about vaping wherever they feel like it. Sooner or later the anti-smoking Nazis are going to set their guns squarely on vaping and we are all going to suffer. Please treat vaping like smoking and be respectful to other people. It is the few bad apples that are going to wreck it for those of us that are trying to make vaping a positive. Just because it isn't smoke doesn't mean you can do it wherever you feel like it. I would hope that you wouldn't bring a theatrical smoke machine into a grocery store and fire it up. It just isn't responsible. As vaping becomes more commonplace and 'accepted', we may be able to get it accepted in places we used to be able to smoke. The last time that I saw someone smoking in a grocery store, I was quite young (you could smoke in hospital rooms too, lol). OK, I am done ranting.

This is exactly on point. I was at a metal concert last night, and between acts I stepped out on the patio area to vape in the smoking area. Another dude was like "you can probably do that inside." I told him that all it takes is one person to complain and then it's a problem, one I try to avoid.
 
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