FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule

[Nuggit]

Cam775, I agree, plenty of time, plenty money. Shows us how confident and complacent they are. Forget consumers, they'll take what we give em. They got enough of Washington in the pocket, right?
Yet another talking point, huh?
Are you a government for the people, by the people, orr a government for big business?

 

[Nuggit]

You're on to something katya, BP doesn't make much money off of healthy folks, does it?

 

[StormFinch]

Playing whack-a-mole with our legislators, over and over again... How long have we been doing this, Stormy?

Almost six long, long years here Katya, and I believe your vapeday is just a month or two before mine.

BTW, I got pics of glazed doughnut, bubble gum, fruit loops, apple jacks and chocolate chip cookie dough flavored vodka and rum bottles that look like milk marketed to the kiddies the last time I was at the liquor store. You'll have to help me figure out the best place to send them for the greatest effect.

 

[Cam775]

Well, someone who has never vaped anything better won't know it's crap! But they'll flock to it because the commercials are cool and the ridiculously high nic will take care of the rest!

No commercials, at least they won't have that, lol.

...They got the guns, we got the numbers.
Can't let them run over us forever, bad precedent. Ultimate power, ultimately corrupts. There are more vapers than bureaucrats.
Rant over, for now. vape on with pride!

I got my guns too and that makes two things the government will have to pry from my cold, dead hands.

Cam775, I agree, plenty of time, plenty money. Shows us how confident and complacent they are. Forget consumers, they'll take what we give em. They got enough of Washington in the pocket, right?
Yet another talking point, huh?
Are you a government for the people, by the people, orr a government for big business?

See above

 

[Katya]

Almost six long, long years here Katya, and I believe your vapeday is just a month or two before mine.

BTW, I got pics of glazed doughnut, bubble gum, fruit loops, apple jacks and chocolate chip cookie dough flavored vodka and rum bottles that look like milk marketed to the kiddies the last time I was at the liquor store. You'll have to help me figure out the best place to send them for the greatest effect.

Need more kid friendly pics for your collection? Coated for bold flavor.

Send them to Mitch? Ms. Boxer? Mr. Durbin?

 

[Mike Abrams]

This whole thing makes me mad.

[edited] is becoming legal just about everywhere, and that's apparently okay, but I can't vape?

tobacco puts alot of money in the government's pockets, and because vaping doesn't, I can't vape?

So many people die every year through alcohol related accidents, and I don't see anybody regulating that, but I can't vape?

WTH?

End of line.

Forcing people who quit by vaping back to big tobacco would be unforgiveable. I am sure also that a few years from now we will see a lot more Philip Morris and RJR cigalikes, sold in convenience stores, and the public perception of vaping in its full blown ignorance.

Since history tends to repeat itself, the banning of online sales could be the first strike. I hope the online vendors can suvive by selling to brick and mortar.

Does the gov really want to increase tobacco sales while saying the opposite? Good chance.

The barriers to entry are almost similar to Uber and ridesharing. Nobody gets to eat in this country until the big dog eats first, though Uber and Lyft are big dogs and well represented. Everyone wants a piece of their revenue.

The idea that we can educate and be the good guys is wishful thinking. Why would those who oppose us be willing to listen and reconsider?

One problem is that analog smoking is as simple as a quick light and being in a place where it is legal. True smoking hobbyists exist but not for cigarettes. I bet the average person, smoker or non, lacks the patience plus trial and error to get a really good personal setup. Those I have met who quit so found something with more pleasure and less risk than analogs. I think that cigalikes and even eGo ecigs mostly get smokers through the workday until they can smoke in peace again.



Mike

 

[justagurlinseattle]

What about everybody tweeting to Obama, and to every rep that is on twitter, regarding this issue?

It seems that a LOT of Gov. Reps on Twitter do read what people say, and many times reply
to them.

also, Tweet to Rand Paul... he seems like a pretty reasonable guy, and one who
seems to respect FREEDOM....

Of course, this would mean Tweeting EVERY rep... and Tweeting them OVER and OVER again,
basically a total Tweeting attack.

It MIGHT get them to hear our concerns.

 

[skoony]

However, its review could take weeks or months. During this time, the OIRA will consult with stakeholders to assess any unintended consequences that the regulations could have on the vapour industry."

Stakeholder? Hmmmm.. I have sent Emails,made phone calls and ,sent letters.
Not once has any body responded with anything other than a form letter.
No one has ever called me asked asked me,"Hey Mike,what do you think about all this?"
Who are these so called stakeholders amyway?
Mike

 

[justagurlinseattle]

I can't wait to see what they do when they find out we can make a suitable wick from the dryer lint off of Egyptian cotton sheets

OK, that is just sexy.... SWOON.... Egyptian Cotton is just AMAZING....
Now it has another use as well. Who knew?

 

[justagurlinseattle]

You know if someone could get Obama off the stinkies and on the vape this might go away

View attachment 501864

I was thinking the very same thing.

 

[justagurlinseattle]

here is Rand Paul's Twitter page, EVERYBODY bombard him with messages about this.

https://twitter.com/RandPaul?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

 

[tiburonfirst]

apparently, some have heard us last year but i can't find any updates

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...to-defend-e-cigarettes-from-possible-fda-bans

 

[FranC]

Sounds like we should vote Republican.

 

[DeAnna2112]

The FDA is holding a hammer with the intention of making a dent..the states are the one's holding the sledge hammer. As a vaper living in the state of Indiana, the FDA is the least of my concerns as Indiana is pretty much covering the worse case scenarios on it's own without the FDA even lifting a finger. Looks like that practice is spreading to more and more states.

 

[pennysmalls]

The FDA is holding a hammer with the intention of making a dent..the states are the one's holding the sledge hammer. As a vaper living in the state of Indiana, the FDA is the least of my concerns as Indiana is pretty much covering the worse case scenarios on it's own without the FDA even lifting a finger. Looks like that practice is spreading to more and more states.

I was just thinking about that this morning. My local vape shop is owned by a couple who have the money to meet all of Indiana's new requirements and are already set up and good to go but now the deeming has come along. There is no way the owners of this shop will be able to pay for the substantial equiv apps required for their house blend liquids. So between that and Indiana's laws for out of state juices that this B&M carries, they're pretty much screwed.

I'll be ok for the time being, I've got family on both coasts and in between so I can still get my liquids but for those who don't have help this is the worst case scenario.

 

[DeAnna2112]

I was just thinking about that this morning. My local vape shop is owned by a couple who have the money to meet all of Indiana's new requirements and are already set up and good to go but now the deeming has come along. There is no way the owners of this shop will be able to pay for the substantial equiv apps required for their house blend liquids. So between that and Indiana's laws for out of state juices that this B&M carries, they're pretty much screwed.

I'll be ok for the time being, I've got family on both coasts and in between so I can still get my liquids but for those who don't have help this is the worst case scenario.

IMO it's the states that are going to be delivering the biggest blow...the FDA is just building on what the states have already put in place or are working on putting in place. I think this is truly the hold up with the FDA..they are watching and working with states and giving them time to implement the hardest blows and then the FDA will proceed with their end of things. I truly believe it's a carefully combined effort to come at us from different directions. Everybody is paying so much attention to the FDA when it's the states IMO that everyone should be watching their backs on..but that's just me.

 

[Rossum]

There is no way the owners of this shop will be able to pay for the substantial equiv apps required for their house blend liquids.

Based on the "Guidance" document that was linked in post 35 of this thread, house blends will be GONE. How many dedicated vape shops can survive without them? My guess is almost none. Let's face it, that's where the margins are for these businesses.

 

[pennysmalls]

Based on the "Guidance" document that was linked in post 35 of this thread, house blends will be GONE. How many dedicated vape shops can survive without them? My guess is almost none. Let's face it, that's where the margins are for these businesses.

Which, if you think about it, at least as far as Indiana is concerned it's stupid. These B&M's here who are complying with the Indiana standards are building their own or renting out clean rooms along with all the bottling/labeling/ingredient requirements and security. These are top notch establishments producing clean perfectly safe juices. What more can these shops do to prove they're serious about quality and safety? Nothing. I don't believe for a second the deeming is about regulation, it's aim is destruction and it's plain as day.

 

[Rossum]

I don't believe for a second the deeming is about regulation, it's aim is destruction and it's plain as day.

Not total destruction, just handing over the entire market to a small number of large businesses. I'm confident a few large companies like Njoy and and of course BT will be able to get their juices approved for sale by the FDA. We'll have about the same level of variety as we currently do in mass-produced, mass-marketed cigarettes. But if you're not big enough to have the resources to register as a tobacco products manufacturer and file PMTAs, you're GONE, at least from the "white" markets.

 

[skoony]

IMO it's the states that are going to be delivering the biggest blow...the FDA is just building on what the states have already put in place or are working on putting in place. I think this is truly the hold up with the FDA..they are watching and working with states and giving them time to implement the hardest blows and then the FDA will proceed with their end of things. I truly believe it's a carefully combined effort to come at us from different directions. Everybody is paying so much attention to the FDA when it's the states IMO that everyone should be watching their backs on..but that's just me.

I believe Indiana was in a position of not having the time to wait for the FDA.
The bonds they issued in lue of future tobacco settlement money are going to default.
They need to pave the way for more taxation to make up for their losses from the
drop in cigarette sales. I do believe however there is a lot of collusion going on.
Regards
Mike