FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule

[justagurlinseattle]

Sounds like we should vote Republican.

Heck, I'm a Liberal. and I think you're right.

 

[Racehorse]

Google FDA and Pharmaceutical Industry and a good dozen articles will come up showing that, for the most part, the FDA is no longer funded by taxes, but by the various fees that the industries pay them.

SF, that is old news.

It's how the dairy and meat (mostly beef) and soy industries survive, despite evidence of some of largest epidemiological studies on the planet showing the problems with these in diet. ( Haven't met any oncologists who will tell you to increase your soy, meat, or dairy intake, etc.)

Interestingly people will use what you just said to their advantage in any debate.

It would be way too complex to go into here, obviously.

I do, however, get a kick out of seeing people get sucked into the industry lobby's lies, smoke and mirrors though. It's not just about cigs and vaping though, it includes MANY products. It is almost mind boggling the amount of "institutionalized lies" that are just taken as truth by most of the society.

 

[englishmick]

Stakeholder? Hmmmm.. I have sent Emails,made phone calls and ,sent letters.
Not once has any body responded with anything other than a form letter.
No one has ever called me asked asked me,"Hey Mike,what do you think about all this?"
Who are these so called stakeholders amyway?
Mike

I think stakeholder is another word for donor in this context.

 

[Racehorse]

Heck, I'm a Liberal. and I think you're right.

Well since I can no longer order eliquid in AR due to the republicans passing laws against it, I am not sure I can go with that.

You want to make it simple but it's really not.

And which is why I keep saying that everything is up for further investigation....everything.......and then I will most likely get dumped on because I "dare question" things.

 

[englishmick]

Sounds like we should vote Republican.

We tried that in Indiana.

 

[zoiDman]

Not total destruction, just handing over the entire market to a small number of large businesses. ...

I wish More People would consider this.

That the goal at the Federal Level Isn't to Remove e-Cigarettes/e-liquids from the Market. But to Transfer the Market to BT and a Few BV by setting a Regulatory Bar high enough that Only a Few can jump over it.

 

[zoiDman]

I think stakeholder is another word for donor in this context.

Many consider a "Stakeholder", in this Context, to be an Entity that has a Vested Monetary Interest which is Not as an End User.

 

[Racehorse]

IMO it's the states that are going to be delivering the biggest blow...the FDA is just building on what the states have already put in place or are working on putting in place. I think this is truly the hold up with the FDA..they are watching and working with states and giving them time to implement the hardest blows and then the FDA will proceed with their end of things. I truly believe it's a carefully combined effort to come at us from different directions. Everybody is paying so much attention to the FDA when it's the states IMO that everyone should be watching their backs on..but that's just me.

DeAnna, I am so glad you said this. It has been said before. By many posters.

It's called having your attention placed on a target that isn't really the target. And THAT is pretty close to fatal when you are in a war. "hey.......look here!!! here!!! here!!!"



I have said many times that by the time to local/municipal/state/regional regs/bans have passed (and they have passed at an alarming rate) there will be very little left for the FDA to do.

Unfortunately, these things were not properly challenged by the industry in courts of law as it should be.

 

[Racehorse]

We tried that in Indiana.

Yes, similar to Arkansas.

Just keep in mind that those who have a POLITICAL AGENDA that has nothing to do with vaping, but more to do with partisan politics, will keep pressing the "vote for this party/vote for that party" meme ---

--- vapers can and will be *used* this way.

Political parties use people all the time. Have to be careful.

Buy the way, sorry about indiana, I thought it was bad when AR outlawed online sale of ejuice, but IN regs look pretty more far reaching. I really don't see much left that the FDA could possibly do to you guys......although I haven't read about your new regs in depth. Just a cursory browse.

 

[pennysmalls]

I wish More People would consider this.

That the goal at the Federal Level Isn't to Remove e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids from the Market. But to Transfer the Market to BT and a Few BV by setting a Regulatory Bar high enough that Only a Few can jump over it.

Transferring the vapor industry and it's e liquids over to BT etc would mean, at least to me, that's it's no longer the vape industry. The vape industry would no longer be what it is and what has worked so well so far. It would be something else completely. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[zoiDman]

Transferring the vapor industry and it's e liquids over to BT etc would mean, at least to me, that's it's no longer the vape industry. The vape industry would no longer be what it is and what has worked so well so far. It would be something else completely. That's how I see it anyway.

Have to Agree with that.

The Constant Parade of Innovations with regards to Hardware have been fueled by Potential Free Market Profits.

 

[justagurlinseattle]

Well since I can no longer order eliquid in AR due to the republicans passing laws against it, I am not sure I can go with that.

You want to make it simple but it's really not.

And which is why I keep saying that everything is up for further investigation....everything.......and then I will most likely get dumped on because I "dare question" things.

Now, that is just scary....


OK, maybe we need to bombard Bernie Sanders Twitter, with this info...
He seems to be a man of the people.... MAYBE he would listen?

 

[englishmick]

I was thinking about this last night. Truth is we aren't the first people to get rolled over like this. It's SOP.

I came to America 25 years ago. My first window into how things work here happened soon after I arrived. They tried to pass a law in Indiana making it illegal to grow herbs that were claimed to have health benefits. Valerian was one I remember. I assume this was being pushed and paid for by the health supplement industry. The argument was that these herbs hadn't been tested and might not be safe, so they had to protect us from them. That one was a bridge too far and it didn't pass.

I'm sure we could all come up with examples of the politicians and the corporations doing whatever is in their interests. I've seen a few in this thread. Now it's our turn. I wish I could say I had stood up for the people who got screwed before us. Like Bonhoeffer said.

 

[StormFinch]

Sounds like we should vote Republican.

 

[justagurlinseattle]

I have to say, while I agree that it is a good idea to write and call the reps,
I do think that Social Media is a better way to get the word out there.
Social media is used far more these days... and people listen.

 

[zoiDman]

I have to say, while I agree that it is a good idea to write and call the reps,
I do think that Social Media is a better way to get the word out there.
Social media is used far more these days... and people listen.

I think People should be Using any and All Means at their Disposal to Spread the Word.

Social Medial, Text, e-Mail, Phone Calls, Letters, whatever.

Just Contact People and tell them to Contact Other People.

 

[justagurlinseattle]

OK... I am not very good at this.. and I am a bit tired and my brain is
not working too well... BUT, can somebody come up with a short by effective
hashtag that can be used on twitter?

for example...[HASHTAG]#savevaping[/HASHTAG]
or [HASHTAG]#saveecigs[/HASHTAG]

 

[DeAnna2112]

Which, if you think about it, at least as far as Indiana is concerned it's stupid. These B&M's here who are complying with the Indiana standards are building their own or renting out clean rooms along with all the bottling/labeling/ingredient requirements and security. These are top notch establishments producing clean perfectly safe juices. What more can these shops do to prove they're serious about quality and safety? Nothing. I don't believe for a second the deeming is about regulation, it's aim is destruction and it's plain as day.

State politicians see the potential of the vaping industry and want in on the cash cow, so I don't believe for one second states want vaping to go away, they are just gearing up for the justification of "sin taxes" to put in place. I think they only want large company's running the show like BT does with cigs.. It makes it easier to collect under the table and wheel and deal like they do with BT...states/politicians are making a killing from only have to deal with a very small number of large tobacco companies who control the brunt of cash flow of tobacco sales. I think they want the same setup with the vaping industry and trying to clear out all the small players. It's easier to negotiate and wheel and deal with opposed to widespread small businesses and mom and pop shops.

I think the FDA is in on the deal and helping that movement along..as they see a plus to this kind of industry setup as well on their end if you stop and think about it. This is why states IMO are far more dangerous then the FDA. When this is all said and done..only a small number of large powerful businesses will be left standing...and that is precisely the goal going forward IMO.

Here is the thing, i don't think they are out to hand it over to BT, i don't think they really care who those handful of standing "corporations" are....just that they are getting a piece of the pie and that the vaping industry is control by a handful corporations like BT so they can wheel and deal with the most powerful in the vaping industry who takes in the brunt of the money made from it.


Just my two cents....

 

[pennysmalls]

You could be right DeAnna, there were rumors flying around in regards to a company named Monument Vaper here in Indiana that was pushing for these bills to go through. The companies would have to be huge though, like BT kind of huge to be able to afford surviving the deeming. Other than NJOY, and of course BT, I don't know of any with that kind of financial power.

 

[skoony]

State politicians see the potential of the vaping industry and want in on the cash cow, so I don't believe for one second states want vaping to go away, they are just gearing up for the justification of "sin taxes" to put in place. I think they only want large company's running the show like BT does with cigs.. It makes it easier to collect under the table and wheel and deal like they do with BT...states/politicians are making a killing from only have to deal with a very small number of large tobacco companies who control the brunt of cash flow of tobacco sales. I think they want the same setup with the vaping industry and trying to clear out all the small players. It's easier to negotiate and wheel and deal with opposed to widespread small businesses and mom and pop shops.

I think the FDA is in on the deal and helping that movement along..as they see a plus to this kind of industry setup as well on their end if you stop and think about it. This is why states IMO are far more dangerous then the FDA. When this is all said and done..only a small number of large powerful businesses will be left standing...and that is precisely the goal going forward IMO.

Here is the thing, i don't think they are out to hand it over to BT, i don't think they really care who those handful of standing "corporations" are....just that they are getting a piece of the pie and that the vaping industry is control by a handful corporations like BT so they can wheel and deal with the most powerful in the vaping industry who takes in the brunt of the money made from it.


Just my two cents....

Leaving a few big players makes sense. It just occurred to me,couldn't
they pass the sin taxes with out the expensive regulations?
Regards
Mike