I wasn't sure :- ) and 'what we see' isn't always 'what is'. Would I like more vendor involvement - sure, but I know some who don't make their advocacy known, who have done much more that what we see.
FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule
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I wasn't sure :- ) and 'what we see' isn't always 'what is'. Would I like more vendor involvement - sure, but I know some who don't make their advocacy known, who have done much more that what we see.
Many do a lot behind the scenes--quietly. Others are more open. But many do fight for their (our) rights.
That's exactly right. I watched all kinds of hearings, from the Congressional one where the above Zeller quotes come from, to our local California legislative hearings--most of the legislators DO believe that e-cigs are healthier than smoking and can help smokers quit--and then they vote against them.
I understand what you mean...
as for the FDA, the problem with the FDA, is that it is a GOOD idea is concept... BUT, it i s
not really doing what is was intended.
So, I agree, that they do need less power...
as for Bill Maher on Libertarian issues.... Like I said, he is a Left Leaning Libertarian,
that is NOT the same as Right Wing Libertarian...
and recently, he has shown an interest in Rand Paul.. and likes a lot of what Rand Paul
stands for. I too have a lot of respect for Rand Paul, of course I don't see eye to eye
with him on EVERY subject, but I do on many.
By the way, I have found a cure for far Left Liberalism... Living in Scandinavia...
Sweden is one of the most Liberal countries in the world. And WOW, it has
really opened my eyes as to how far Left some people can become. Some of the
things that people say and do here, have really changed my outlook on things.
Every single bm should tell people about what's going on. Again I don't think this bill will pass and if it does it won't last very long. This a billion dollar industry I dont think Johnson Creek, Apollo, and the 1,000s of juice manufacturers will just shut down silently
.
The biggest problem is that EVERYBODY in politics is "About The Children"
That is when they make the biggest mistakes.. They don't use logic, they
use emotion.
My problem, is that I still don't know much about any of this to be very effective
at getting the word out there. I don't know what to say on this issue, to
get anybody to listen.
If any of you could help me write a short message in 140 characters or less
so I can tweet this to Rand, Bernie and Bill Maher... I would appreciate
it a lot...
"Save the Children" always wins the feel good emotion for Agendas.
Vaping does "Save the Children" from Tobacco products.
99.9% Pure nicotine is the new caffeine and a true health saver!
Nicotine free vaping in itself is fun and 99-100% harmless unless done at over 650-700 degrees generally speaking according to most research scientifically done so far. We all vape flavors when we smell what is cooking.
So even the argument that kids vaping is on the rise and simultaneously tobacco use is on the decline is the truest "Save the children" statistic that somehow is being construed by the ANTI-Vaping agenda as "Bad for the "children".
It is bad less kids are smoking tobacco?
The "Save the children" argument is being used to actually "Harm the Children"It is ignorance that people assume that if it looks like smoking it must be smoking.
"Smoking is Harmful" is drilled in society's head now for real reasons. 400-500k tobacco related deaths a year in U.S alone.
Simply, we need to spread the word:
Vaping isn't Smoking.
Nicotine isn't Tobacco.
The top 20 for Big Tobacco's contributors haven't always been Republicans. What you'll find is that any industry will contribute to both parties with the majority usually (not always) going to whomever holds the majority in the House or the Senate.
Go back to when the Tobacco Act was passed by a majority of Dems in both Houses and a Dem President to sign it. (It's why we are here now, btw). In that year there were 8 Dems in the top 20. 11Dems in the House. In 1990 - Dem majority - 8 Dem Senators and 15 Dem House members.
Even in 1994 when Repubs took over both Houses - 10 Dem Senators and 11 Dem House members in the top 20 recipients.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.php?ind=A02 &cycle=2008&recipdetail=S&mem=Y&sortorder=U
Please post proof of that statement, then I won't bother having the liquid tested.
No because the expensive regulations are there to serve a purpose as i stated earlier. There is a lot money being made behind closed doors in smokey rooms then what is being made off of just sin taxes alone. Big business and politics always negotiate "payoffs in exchange for" ... in scratching each others backs.
States/politicians want the vaping industry narrowed down to as few as possible big power players so they can play that game just like they do with BT right now. But they have to have deep pockets and the only way to have deep pockets is through industry dominance. The powers that be are setting the stage for that to happen by making it hard for anyone to survive in the vaping business but those with deep pockets that can dominate the industry.
Just my two cents
"Save the Children" always wins the feel good emotion for Agendas.
Vaping does "Save the Children" from Tobacco products.
99.9% Pure nicotine is the new caffeine and a true health saver!
Nicotine free vaping in itself is fun and 99-100% harmless unless done at over 650-700 degrees generally speaking according to most research scientifically done so far. We all vape flavors when we smell what is cooking.
So even the argument that kids vaping is on the rise and simultaneously tobacco use is on the decline is the truest "Save the children" statistic that somehow is being construed by the ANTI-Vaping agenda as "Bad for the "children".
It is bad less kids are smoking tobacco?
It is ignorance that people assume that if it looks like smoking it must be smoking.
"Smoking is Harmful" is drilled in society's head now for real reasons. 400-500k tobacco related deaths a year in U.S alone.
Simply, we need to spread the word:
Ohhh I hear ya...
Quite frankly, I have let my daughter try my vape...
and if I thought she was in danger of smoking, I would buy her one myself.
I would rather have her vaping, than smoking.
an Interesting bit of info...
Our computers and all the plastics we bring into our homes, emit far MORE damaging chemicals
than vaping does. Every single plastic emits strong chemicals, many have even been
found in breast milk, yet, they are not outlawing plastics in our homes.
Have you ever left a bottle of water in a hot car for a few days and opened it?
Holy smokes, it smells terrible, yet, we are allowed to put that in our bodies, but they
want to regulate and ban vaping.
another thing I find curious, is that there are many pipe tobaccos that
are fruit and chocolate flavored, yet, they won't try to ban those... HHmmm....
Nope, only the flavored e-juice... UUgghh, that really makes my fur in a fluff.
That's what I call the 'gov't prism' - get a 'good idea' and put it through gov't and you get 180° opposite of what was intended.
The Great Society was going to 'end poverty as we know it' and it institutionalized poverty.
Low income housing was to give low income people a safe place to live - they are combat zones.
Gov't schools have created people who are propagandized in your ideology who can't make a logical argument - they don't know what 'logic' is or they rejected it out of hand for 'how they feel' about something.
I could go on - for quite a while - but to the subject......
This 'deeming' which was intended to stop the spread of nicotine will most likely send anyone who hasn't prepared greatly, back to smoking and give some who might have tried vaping, never a chance to do so.
So one might ask some pointed questions the next time someone has some 'good idea' that takes gov't to implement it - like "free" college just for an example.
Understood. I'm just going on what has been proposed and likely soon finalized where 'deeming' of anything can actually happen. I go by what has happened in the past - and ecigs isn't the first industry where this has happened.
Context of course matters. So thank you for the link of contributions, The recent years contributions still tend to weigh heavily "Republican" whom generally favor "Big Business". What matters is who is in charge now.
What I find more disturbing is how cheaply Politicians can be bought.
Exactly I've got a cousin, who's sixteen, that bought bought an ego, with zero nic juice, if it wasn't for vaping he would've started smoking and be hooked for life. Sure high school kids are vaping but it's better than them smoking cigarettes.
I truly agree with you, but that's not how FDA and the government is viewing it as..
My little brother started smoking and "snusing" the last year, and was smoking a couple packs a week.. Then i gave him one of my earlier evod, and mix some 0nic juice for him as he isn't quite addicted to nic, but he has to inhale something he says. Better vaping than smoking at least.
Learning about tapatalk, magic thing
hehehehehe... I saw the word Snussing and KNEW you were in Scandinavia... LOL
Ohh yes, Snus... YUCK!!!! I hate that stuff... EVERYBODY uses it here in Sweden.
En norsk en her ja
Back when I smoked, I used snus sometimes when I either couldn't smoke or was out of cigarettes. I didn't hate it, but I didn't like it either. It was not enough to fullfill my needs, but just enough to maintain my sanity until I lit my next cigarette.
Learning about tapatalk, magic thing
That's exactly right. I watched all kinds of hearings, from the Congressional one where the above Zeller quotes come from, to our local California legislative hearings--most of the legislators DO believe that e-cigs are healthier than smoking and can help smokers quit--and then they vote against them.
e-Cigarettes take a Lot of Money away from Government(s). And Many/Most Legislators have the Misguided Belief that this lost money is Somehow theirs to do as with as they please.
So I think e-Cigarettes start out life with One Strike against them in the Eyes of Most Legislators. Even though they Do Know that using an e-Cigarette is a "Safer" Alternative to Smoking.
And Even Thought they have Told Us For Years that we Had To Stop Smoking.
Maybe they were Lying when they said they Wanted Us to Stop Smoking? Because Now we Have. And Now we are the Bad Guys.
My state already passed a law similar to this proposal, so I have to hunt for sites that are unaware of the new law that sell my fave E-liquid...and feel guilty about stepping around a law...
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